"Daria" and Conrad... (Lit Geek Playtime)

I recently finished rereading "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad, and a weird notion struck me, which was that Daria and Marlow are very similar in a way. I know that this is going out a bit on a limb, but please bear with me-- this is still a rough idea, but I wanted to put it before the Group while I could still remember it. (And, hey, what can I say. I'm a lit geek-- I enjoy this kind of stuff sometimes. <g>)

First I thought about comparing how the talk of ivory could be compared to the talk of popularity, but that's too easy. Then I thought about how many "Heart of Darkness" refs have been made in the series, but that isn't really the point. Then, I started thinking about what I read towards the end of the story, and about how it compared not just to the show, but to those of us who frequently post here.

First, remember how the Manager looked at Marlow after his meeting with Kurtz? How Marlow realized that the Manager had lumped him in with Kurtz, simply because Marlow understood Kurtz, and the Manager didn't? The Manager was too conventional to understand either one of them, and the Manager understood that, too, which turned him against Marlow as well. Remember how the Pilgrims all looked at Marlow after Kurtz died? They too had had their suspicions confirmed. He *was* different. He *wasn't* like them at all. And he knew that they knew, and he also knew that they had it in for him as well. Not that it mattered to him-- he wasn't going to play their game-- but he understood what had happened to all of them better than they ever would. Sound familiar?

As Marlow describes the inhabitants of the sepulchural city, "They trespassed upon my thoughts. They were intruders whose knowledge of life was to me an irritating pretence, because I felt so sure they could not possibly know the things I knew." Is it me, or could this line come striaght from a description of Lawndale from Daria's perspective? Or, based on some of the posts on this NG, could these words also come from many of us? Is this why we're so "different?" Is it that we not only know of dark things, but we also know of their significance?

I can't wait to hear the replies. ;-)

Just wondering, rich.

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:34:22 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (paperpusher), and it said:

Neither can I. I know well that I have a certain darkness in me, a brooding nature, evil thoughts that tell me that, were I not so capable of behaving as I belive I should (and having a stong sense of that), I could be capable of horrible things. I hear and read about things "Crazy" people have done, like the Collumbine shootings, the Oklaholma City Bombing, to mention the violence based deals only. People say, what kind of person would do such a thing? How twisted must a person be to cross that line? Where, in fact, does that line exist?

I understand these hideous crimes, because the person could've just as easily been me. Those boys as Collumbine High were the social rejects, derided by athletic types, rejected by social types, even looked down upon by teachers unable to understand their particular point of view. If I understand correctly, they lacked a strong home life, as well. Combine that with the fact that it was a very "religeous" community, and you've got a recipe for trouble.

They could've been me, if I lacked a loving, available family, and what few friends I could find before I went to Nerd High.

The bombing is also something I understand. I have a strong right wing streak in me. I occasionally feel resentment toward that poorly defined "liberal" idea (poorly defined meaning it's more of a mental phantasm than a real "threat"), that, if I didn't value human life and universal justice as I do, I could easily participate in politically motivated violence. As it is, I don't even approve, but the potential is there.

I have the remarkable ability to channel an unwanted emotion into anger, something which I learned I must control years ago, when I hurt my brother pretty bad. "Big boys don't cry," a concept that Jake understands all too well, has been taken to an extreme in my personality. This is something I strive against; when they said anger leads to the Dark Side, they weren't kidding around.

This enough of a "Heart of Darkness" for you? Personally, I think the rise in "crazy" crimes is due to a social rejection of morality, a concept that serves us dark souls better than most.

[email] (Tarvok) wrote:

<snip>

Darker than I expected, but I appreciate the comments nonetheless.

I don't know. I do know that these days there are both more and fewer impediments preventing someone from becoming another Kurtz. (In that they become an intelligent, so-called "Civilized" person with no sense of right and wrong whatsoever.) There are impediments to gaining physical means, but not to developing that sort of mindset. *Shrug* I told you that this is a rough idea I was musing.

I was speaking more in general terms, however, in my original post. By "knowing," I meant that there are those who see the world for what it really is, and there are those who can't, or even if they could, couldn't live with the knowledge that sometimes very evil things are done to keep us all comfortable. Or something. I don't know. It's late.

rich.

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

It is a very fine line, I think, and one people cross over more than most people imagine... I mean, just because you cross it, doesn't mean you can't step back over it again... And you don't have to be all that "twisted"... everyone has their own limits, their own weaknesses and strengths... Part of growing up is testing those limits.

Yes, it is not too difficult to understand how they might have felt, what might have driven them, but that, in no way, excuses what they did. Who doesn't remember kids like these two from their own HS's... did they all go on rampages in their schools? And the religious angle is, IMO, just that, an angle... if the community had been very anti-religious, then _that_ would have been blamed.

paperpusher wrote in message news:[email]...

...

I suppose I'm going to have to read this, aren't I?

"R. K. Henry" wrote:

You don't *have* to read anything, but it's been a very influential piece of literature. It's not even in the universe of being PC, so tender eyes should be warned, but it's still an important story, and very illustrative of its time. (And Conrad's a damn fine writer, if I do say so myself.) If you liked "Apocalypse Now," you'll probably like this even better-- it's a bit more cerebral.

rich.

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

R. K. Henry wrote:

Heyyy...I had to read that in high school...remember reading it *and* seeing "Apocalypse Now" in class...Martin Sheen used to be a hottie!...anyways (LOL), that was required reading for us...wow. I'm surprised it wasn't required reading for ya.

Oh, and I kept on thinking of "The Great Gatsby" when I read it...like there were two outsider narrators looking at this messy condition called humanity, in search of something but unsure of what...OMG, I'm doing it aren't I? Rambling, I mean? Whoops.

Diane

<snip Rich's passages on "Heart Of Darkness">

Wow, I really have to read this book... I know I've felt just like that for almost as long as I can remember... It took me a long time to learn patience with people who just couldn't seem to make the mental leaps, who just couldn't see beyond themselves and their own limited lives, or wouldn't... Too many people, I think, hide from the "dark things" out there... Try to cover up any knowledge of such things with false sunshine and light... live lives of illusions... One of the things I think most of us who post here have in common is our refusal to be sheep... whether we have never wanted to fit into "normal" society or just never really have been able to, we're all different, for different reasons, from the status quo (or, at least, I hope so). I think one thing that we see in Daria that we seem to have in common is the strength to be individuals... and I hope, proud of it. Am I making any sense to anyone else?

Marie

"Every age needs men who will redeem the time by living with a vision of things that are to be." -Adlai Stevenson

In article ,

Yes you are. I would say that initially I've not been able to fit in to "normal" society but at some point I said to myself, "screw 'em, if they don't want me for who I am then I don't need them." I'm social* when I want or need to and anti-social when it's appropriate. I've always gone to the beat of my own drummer, and rarely succumb to peer pressure.

*This really peaves my mom, who thinks that the end all and be all of a young persons life is to have a lot of drunken freinds and go out and get wasted every weekend. She has prodded me about stuff like this much the same way that Helen does to Daria (Does anyone else have a Helen-like parent?). She doesn't understand that I don't like the stuff she thinks I should do.

every weekend isn't bloody often enough, imo. ;) i like being drunk. it makes other people seem so much more tolerable. :)

my dad is *a bit* like that.

My mother has been telling me to get more friends to hang out with for years now, since, if I was going to leave the house voluntarily, it was generally with Betsey. So she encourages me to "hang out" with anyone I express not hating... grr. My only "progress" has been getting a boyfriend, increasing my number of people to two.

I think she's starting to give that up. Now she's focusing on my hair, and losing any claim to a connection to hippie-dom she had with her statement "Cut your hair! You want to look respectable, don't you? You want to look nice, don't you? Get your hair cut, it's messy!". Free John Sinclair button or no, she lost it right there.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Consider yourself lucky that your mom's starting to let up. It's getting easier to avoid it now that I have more freedom of motion (I can just leave for a while if it gets too bad and I don't have to ask anyone or tell them where I'm going).

Well she's letting up on the "GET FRIENDS" thing but there's like the law of conservation of really annoying shit or something, so she's directing it all towards my hair which I downright refuse to get cut on the basis that hairdressers are psychotics, especially mine, and I don't want to take any chances.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Dagny Scott wrote:

Well, I think they never really lose that bit of themselves, the nagging bit I mean. Like, my mom doesn't see why I have to go online...she tells me, "why don't you go make friends with real people, go out?", and I'm like, "well, these *are* real people, you know". And she nags me constantly about my schoolwork and relationships and stuff. The only thing she's let up on noticeably since I was a young teen is my appearance. She'll nitpick if we're going to someplace like a wedding or something, but usually she'll only tell me to keep my pimples under control. She doesn't mind that I don't want a perm, and she's actually gotten the fact that I like to dress very conservatively and will even sometimes direct my attention to a grey or black piece of clothing. And she even let me pick out my clothes the last time I had to go clothes shopping. Which did kinda make it an OK experience.

(p.s.: I love having my own transportation. It's so liberating.)

Diane

Diane, the Hallucinating Elvis Lady, may have possibly said:

Does she realize that you're serious about Barry?

You do realize that with most mothers and daughters this conversation would have been the opposite one, right? She'd be telling you not to dress so trashy and stuff ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message ...

direct

trashy

Is anyone else starting to think that Diane has something common with Saffy from AbFab? "Darling, shouldn't you be out now doing drugs at a rave or something?"

In case Diane's wondering, I found Saffy the most likeable character on AbFab. 8-)

Martin.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

the

sometimes

would

so

Saffy

or

on

Ahhhh, me too! If the show "Daria" were called "Quinn" instead, it would probably play a lot like AbFab, with Daria as Saffy and Sandi as Patsy. Patsy's "work" friends are a lot like the Fashion Club as well. I haven't seen the show in ages, but I still wish I knew someone like Saffy (or Daria, of course).

Martin Sylvester said:

Hee hee hee ... I don't think her mom's like Edie though :)

Yeah .. Saffy was cool.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

try "only" likeable character on AbFab!

Bob Ohler said:

Edie and Patty were fun to watch, from a distance. Saffy's the only one I would have liked to know personally ... aside from some of her friends, who also seemed pretty cool.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Of course, one friend of mine pointed out that Saffy had her own problems as well-- she was a complete and total killjoy-- a reaction, no doubt, to the way she was raised by-- strike that, a reaction the way she had to raise her mother. Poor Saffy never really got to unclench for just a minute or two.

rich.

Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!

On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:24:42 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

Except when she dug that issue of "Razzle" out of the trashcan.

"Razzle? Razzle? What year? What month? Oh... very well, then."

----- Lone Wolf I'm rooting for the crocodile.

"You are American?" "No, I'm Canadian... that's like an American without the gun." - KitH

On Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:22:59 +0100, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Heh!

But of course, Padre. You're *supposed* to like Saffy, and to dislike Patsy and Edina. The fact that the latter two became hugely popular here in the Colonies is a testimonial to how completely screwed up we Yanks are. :-)

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
      Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
  http://www.lawndale.net  -OR-  http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

I've managed to go as far as stating he and I are friends, but I don't think I could tell her about any romantic involvement with him until he comes to Texas. She might not like him at first still, because of the age difference, but then she would probably approve if she realized he wanted to come because he didn't want me to part from my family.

LOL.

I did read that little Saffy post below, in fact, and realized I'm a bit like that. But my parents are not quite nearly the same way that Edina is like. My parents are quite conservative and I have begged them to let me cut a little loose...like I want mulitple ear piercings, and my parents have said no to that idea. And when I used to want a tattoo they said no to that idea, as well. But at the same time Mom wanted me to wear these hilariously loud prints and outfits and I hated it. Now, however, she's calmed down quite a bit. Surprisingly, though, Dad's always known what I like as far as clothing goes. Whenever I would get a great outfit for a Christmas present, I could always count on it being something Dad picked out for me. PLUS he once said that when he was young he loved it when Mom would wear a pleated skirt. I *love* pleated skirts. Interesting...LOL.

Diane (who realizes what she posts makes her sound like she likes clothes shopping, which is absolutely not true at all)

On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:19:09 -0500, Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:

*nods understandably* I used to have this problem with my mom, that I would have all these online friends and I would go meet up with them (in a public place with a group of people of course). I ended up being close friends with some of them, and my mom met some of them, and generally concluded that the internet isn't entirely made up of serial killers and psychos. I also met my boyfriend online (met up with him in real life, and it went on from there), and my mom likes him, so all in all, it worked out fine.

To add to that, I frequently run into people online that keep on saying "Oh this is only online chatting, don't take everything so seriously." That kinda angers me because I don't see online chatting as a *game*. The people behind the computer screens are human too, and it's silly to think you can say and offend anyone you like simply because you can't see everybody else. I've laughed and cried and have been quite emotional during several online conversations, so it's not something to make fun of.

My mom and several of her friends have this opinion that being young means I have to wear colorful outfits and trendy clothes. "Ugh, how can you young people today wear all that BLACK?" is what I hear the most. I bet you my mom is secretly grateful that I'm NOT that crazy about trendy outfits considering those clothes cost a ridiculous amount of money. However, I admit I'm victim to comfortable clothes like jeans and khakis, and I sometimes buy them at branded stores like Gap or Levis, mainly because it's more convenient.

Only if your town has plenty of parking space. I like driving back home because the public transport is ridiculous and parking doesn't get too bad. But here in San Francisco, it's a nightmare. The public transport isn't perfect either, but I find it a hell of a lot easier to just grab a bus than to circle a same block for hours trying to spot a free space.

Nicole Lee, the Lady Kender, said:

Ah ... so you tricked her :)

Awww ... Khairul's not a serial killer? Not even a psycho? <disappointed pout>

I agree with you. I think that online is as valid a way of talking to people as on the phone, or even face to face. Though there are nuances easier to convey face to face, of course.

It's like New York City that way, then.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

i met my boyfriend online and then Irl later.. i don;t know if my mum likes him or not though, but she certainly wouldn't approve of it, cos he's a bit older.

i have to buy all my clothes from topshop or Miss selfrige, because they are the only places in town that sell clothes in my size that aren't for 10 yearolds..

i'm not old enoughto drive yet,

(apologies for spelling mistakes in this post, i'm sliughtly drunk.)

then I guess it's a good thing that you don't drive. :>}

-this public service announcement brought to you by:

In article , [email] (Nicole Lee) wrote:

You live in San Fran, Nicole? Hmmm, that's kinda neat. I live in Fremont and frequent San Francisco alot. I could have been the woman who stepped on your shoe the other day...lol!

cheryl

On Sun, 05 Sep 1999 00:18:21 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:

Ah hah! I knew it! Do you own any shoes with a Nike imprint on the soles?

You drive from Fremont to San Fran? Cool. Even cooler still is that you drive. Emn... did I ever tell you that wicka chick is SUCH a cool handle? *sucks up shamelessly in order to make friends with someone who has a car*

Anyways, e-mail me or something if ya wanna meet up k? I promise I won't wear my viking helmet in public.

In article ,

Actually the ironic-ness (I made up a word! :p) of that is I *do* own shoes like that...errrm I mean No. No, no, no, no, no. *Denying her crime with zeal* (I like that word. "zeal" Heehee!)

Why no car? Could it be voluntary simplicity? (Sorry I had to make *some* Daria reference)

lol! Last time someone told me that-- the cows and then they running is alot of "aaaah!" said amy as she falling! Bannana trucks will says no man rasta shiny rumpled in the night. Whoa. I gotta lay off the coffee...

cheryl

Nicole Lee wrote:

I met someone on IRC a few years ago. We're now engaged, and should be married some time next year. Yes, there are a lot of weird people out there, but there are also some very nice ones.

Bill.

"We are now entering hell. Please keep your hands and elbows inside the car." -- Daria

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Aw, c'mon, now! If it's a really *good* psychotic hairdresser, you can get her to do you like the woman who was attacked by the kangaroo on "Animal Maulings on Home Video!"

Or, just use blue kool-aid, and dye your hair blue. (In theory, it washes out in a few days.) Ask her if she digs you "new look." She'll shut up. ;-)

rich. (who's considered dying his hair magenta a time or two, but could never work up the nerve.)

Tiffany: "Oh, no. Wind, hair."

paperpusher wrote:

argghhgh, we just had this discussion on alt.music.nirvana. "c00lk8" giving kool-aid hair-dying tips...

In article , [email] wrote:

law of

it all

take any

I don't know about the kool-aid thing. My friend tried it that way, and it tinted her hair red so she had to grow it out and all. It was a *gasp* Hair stain!

cheryl

maybe i should try that as my hair seems to resist just about anythinh i put in it.

eh, having brown hair makes that hard, y'know?

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall