While this wasn't a classic by any means, it nontheless is an episode I'd love to see again. Jodie is one of my favorite characters, and it was cool that they finally decided to do something with her. I liked it even more that Daria and Jodie came off this episode with more of a respect for each other than they had before. While I don't see them becoming bosom buddies (yet) I do see their mutual admiration growing. And who knows what will happen next?
Jeff
I've always found the way that Jodie, Kevin & Brittany talk to/treat Daria is the most unrealistic thing about the show. Jodie, miss popular hot babe with the hot athletic boyfriend who's in student council, talks to Daria with reverence & respect. Kevin shows great concern over Daria's well-being. Brittany talks to Daria in a serious, kind way as well. In any real high school, the big-time loser misery chick would never have all these popular people being really nice & respectful towards them so much. That's the #1 reality check this series needs. The populars need to dissmiss, disrespect, ignore, be rude to, etc the Darias & Janes to be realistic, but, would the humor suffer?................................
H G Pataki wrote:
I think the Jodie talks to Daria with reverence and respect because other then attitudes, they are very similar. Not only are the two alike, the two WANT to have some of the qualities the other wants as shown in the episode "Gifted". Also, Jodie's boyfriend does show me as being your average, know nothing jock. Kevin, i don't think, is your average jock. He is stupider and lacks common sense, so naturally, he wouldn't act the same way towards Daria as Tommy Sherman did. Brittany is so clue less and is sorta stupid... Since Daria is a whole bunch of times smarter then her, she may consider her a consultant. In the Tommy Sherman episode, Daria passed off as a misery chick, but she gave good advice to all the people, including Brittany, who managed to understand.
Daria was created to be a cartoon with a whimsical, but dark, comedy about a sarcastic girl.The populars in the show aren't really Jodie, Kevin, and Brittany since populars have at least common sense. The real populars, The Fashion Club and Jeffy, Joey,and Jamie, ignore Daria and Jane and anyone else who's unpopular, so all in all, i'm trying to say is that it may be unrealistic for some of the characters to talk to Daria, those same characters aren't really those popular stereotypes.
Robert Racadio writes:
Hunh? Mack is one of the smartest people at Lawndale. I would say that the smartest people are, in order: Jodie, Daria, Mack, Jane, Upchuck.
Obviously, other people will have different opinions as to who is smarter than whom, and Upchuck only barely made my list, because of his scholastic skill and his ability to blackmail people.
But I think it's pretty clear that those are the only people at Lawndale with functioning neurons.
Not really. French fry, the truth is written on your thigh? No. She's too shallow to be smart.
Come now. Depth or the lack of it has nothing to do with intelligence. I've known several young people who were quite smart, and seemed determined to live entirely on the surface of reality. It's wasteful, and painful to see, and pretty common. - - Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. To email me, replace the 'x' with an 'a'.
I'll agree with you that she's not that smart, but too shallow? I didn't know shallowness and brains were mutually exclusive. I know some very intelligent shallow people.
Also, did anyone actually hear parts of Quinn's A essay? It was laughable at best. DiMartino would have eaten her alive. Mr. O'Neill is a creampuff grader.
Kyle
spacedog wrote in article ...
*is* smart.
In article , [email] wrote:
Well, think about it. If you saw last week's "Gifted", you'll see how shallow smart people can be. Quinn is a bright girl, but she doesn't want people to *KNOW* she's smart, or she'd be a (gasp!) BRAIN! But she's smart enough to string along her legion of guys and get everything she wants out of them. She seems to have an extremely elaborate method of ranking and planning her dates, and she's pretty good at manipulating Helen and Jake. All in all, she's no Daria but she's no brittany either.
Actually, a better way to put it would be is that quinn uses her intellect for shallow things.
Yea, this is a good point. Quinn is pretty smart with the way she handles her dates and deals with Helen and Jake. It just seems Quinn puts such a high value on popularity and thinks being a "brain" would definitely hurt her cause of being popular.
--Marc (replace "noone" with "me" for E type mail)
In article , [email] wrote:
Right...to quote "Quinn the Brain" (approx.)
Stacy: "Wow, Quinn, you're really smart." Quinn: "Only about *important* things."
*is* smart.
shallow
to
to
She
And in the new episode (Ill, IU.. whatever) Quinn did seem to know her stuff while attempting to help Daria. Sometimes its not just being smart, but what department you're smart in...
Sforzie
On 8 Jul 98 02:55:21 GMT, "Sforzie" wrote:
Quinn is the author of "Academic Imprisonment", after all ("Quinn the Brain"). It may not be Shakespeare, but it's not a Brittany-like jumble of mindless sentences, either. She also knows that she's shallow and self-absorbed ("Monster"), but that's how she *wants* to be. (To quote from "Gifted", it's what works for her now.)
I've found that to be the case with quite a few people. Very smart, but also very much lacking several key fuses in their how-to-use-it circuitry. :-)
Martin ---- Quinn: Daria, you can't leave me here with those, those yuppies! Daria: Yuppies are from the 80s. Quinn: So, what do you call people with funny outfits who talk about peace and love and stuff? Daria: Trekkies. ---- To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.
*is* smart.
What do you base this on? She's not a complete idiot like Kevin, but that doesn't mean she's smart.
In article , Robert Racadio wrote:
popular
Sorry, no. I wasn't *quite* as much the misery chick as Daria, but I did have cordial relations with the popular/successful - the honor society group, the jocks w/brains (aka the offensive linemen - don't think a *real* quarterback could be as dense as Kevin)). Never invited to their parties, but friendly enough during school hours.
I must say I'm surprised to find out that an average racially balanced LA area high school is so completely atypical of every other person's high school on this ng............
yeah, it sucks and is full of the 'beautiful people", regardless of sexual orientation or color. :) Calabasas high was a wasteland of 3 years:) Jewlya
"Don't worry, I don't have low self esteem. It's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else."---Daria ("Esteemsters")
"Cut and paste sweetie, or else no one will know who you are talkin to....and don't u post to be heard and understood?"
In article , [email] (H G Pataki) wrote:
Beg to differ on three points.
First, Daria is not "the big-time loser misery chick" -- that was the whole point of the episode from which the last part of that phrase is drawn.
Second, the attitude you're describing IS expressed on the show, via the members of the Fashion Club. Surely that's disdain enough for anyone?
Third, the reasons why Jodie, Brittany, and Kevin would have anything to do with Daria (despite the obvious differences in their social status) have been explored in various episodes. "Gifted" made it clear (if there were any doubts) that Jodie is a very sharp person; she may have different goals than Daria and Jane, but someone as intelligent as she is would naturally want to spend time with other people equally intelligent. As for Brittany, Daria was indulgent towards her in "The Invitation" and won a sort of honorary status -- though that hasn't kept Brittany from being unwittingly insulting towards her on a dozen other occasions. And finally, Kevin is a big stupid jerk, but he isn't a BAD person, as such -- he's the kind of guy who's probably pleasant and friendly to everyone because it doesn't occur to him that there's any other way to be. (The scene where he's convinced Daria's parents are conducting experiments on her and he gets that wounded expression of dismay is one of my favorite moments. Poor Kevin, he's too stupid to understand the joke...or much of anything else.)
As the big-time loser misery guy at my high school (ask anyone, they'll tell you) I had exactly the same kind of strange connections with certain people who were my social betters. That's one of the interesting things about high school -- you never can tell who you'll be thrown in with -- and it makes the show plenty realistic, as far as I'm concerned.
RAB
I went to HS fifteen years ago in the San Francisco Area. And I agree with Richard's statements for the most part. I say again the Daria, imho, is the most realistic show in regards to the protrayal of HS of any TV show I remember seeing. While I was a serious outcast type, rejected by the "beautiful people" there were always a few them who talked with us outcast types when the were not with their clique. These types of people were like one type of person when they were with their clique and another type when you saw them alone. But they were very much in the minority among the "popular" types. This was basically true at all four high schools I attended.
Marc
Richard Bensam wrote:
As a current high school student who is an outcast (half by my choice, half by theirs) I will point out that some people are genuinely nice to you, while some are just condescinding. They think "I'm so nice, I'm talking to this poor little loser". Remember in "Quinn the Brain". this quote might not be exact
Quinn: This will work out for both of us. I'll go on my date, and you'll have something to do on a Friday night for once
Daria: Do your own damn homework!!!!!
Marc S. Toft wrote in article ...
with
realistic
While I was
always a few
These types
another
the
or have no
no
Just my
I
is,
goes a
and
reflection
much
situations
and
It may be old, but The Many Loves Of Dobie Gillis was pretty accurate for its time.
In article , [email] (KrautBiter) wrote:
Yeah, every school had Warren Beatty at it!
Actually, Dobie Gillis was an incredible show!
Yes, every school has had their Milton Armitidge. That dissmissal isn't valid.
In article , [email] (H G Pataki) wrote:
no
While I doubt the social/populars *ever* knew my name, the successful/populars (honor society, active in lots of clubs, etc) that also attended my college actually *recognized me and remembered my name* at my 10-year college reunion. I wasn't really expecting that.
And I was very Daria-like. Quiet & smart, just not so cynical.
In article ,
is
Good Points and I agree with you. Note to anyone who says that any show is unrealistic: IT IS A TELEVISION SHOW(read: Popular Entertainment), by nature there is going to be some things that might not add up in the real world. If you are spending all of your time looking for thing that may or may not be unrealistic; at best, you're over-analysing and at worst, you're wasting your time.
I was somewhat of a social outcast in high school, too. But I can also say that I was the brain behind my high school football team(of which I was a member, sort of like a player-coach). At graduation, when I got the "scolar-athlete" award I was really proud until I realized who I was up against. Sorry about that tangent, and I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying that I used to play football.
Mike
Crime & Punishment is JUST A WORK OF FICTION--IT'S NOT REAL yet people devote their entire lives to trying to fully understand the book. Just because something is made up, on tv, in a book, etc. that doesn't mean it's a nonsensical piece of tripe.
In article ,
I don't think trying to understand something is the same as being a nit-picker, I am not familiar with Crime & Punishment but if it takes a long time to understand it, then that time is well spent. However, if someone has an understanding and then procedes to pick out and analyze everything that is unrealistic, they are going overboard. All I'm saying is that we should take TV for what it is- entertainment.
Mike
should take
OK, so Mike Quinn is the man who draws the line as to where people need to cut off their discussions of ficticious works of art or at least he can define the boundaries of what is excessive and what isn't? Do you draw the line with all telivision, or just animated series? Is it ok to devote one's life to Dostoyevsky and not to Stephen King? Where do we draw the line, Mike? Please, I really want to know.................
In article , [email] (H G Pataki) wrote:
Please, I
Yeah, and what about all those people that dedicate their lives to the Mother Of All Fiction...The Bible?
-TDH
Don't make this a religious debate, please. I will offend some people I don't want to offend.
Kyle
JFC wrote in article ...
I agree. This isn't alt.daria.religion. Unless the show deals with a religious theme, don't bring it up.
wrote:>Yeah, and what about all those people that dedicate their lives to the
Gosh Damn!! that is such a wise statement, even if it is a question......it is fiction, u know. Jewlya
"Don't worry, I don't have low self esteem. It's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else."---Daria ("Esteemsters")
"Cut and paste sweetie, or else no one will know who you are talkin to....and don't u post to be heard and understood?"
I will only ask this one more time. PLEASE don't make this a religous thing. I am a devout Christian, but I will make no attempts to force it on you. It is up to you, I won't hit you over the head with the Bible. But if people continue to question it's validity, I will be forced to defend it. There is no way you could change my mind, and I doubt seriously I could change any of yours, so can we possibly avoid this subject? Nothing good can come from it.
Kyle
JewlyaRose wrote in article ...
the
question......it is
esteem
to....and
Of All Fiction...The Bible?<<
<Discussion followed regarding the place of religion in this NG>
Say I:
But you miss the point. Whether or not you accept the Bible as true (I do), the fact remains that it IS to a large extent, "the mother of all fiction," at least in Western Civilization. Feel free to substitute "literature" for "fiction" if it makes you more comfortable. Virtually every single theme, plot, and narrative device used by every writer of fiction can be found in the Bible. In fact, I would go so far as to say that any fiction writer who has not read the Bible has some reading yet to do if he or she wishes to perfect his or her craft.
Granted, I don't know the intent of the original post. It may be a blow struck against either Christian belief or biblical scholarship. If it was, I find it irrelevant to that end, and to the purpose of this newsgroup. People DO devote their lives to studying and debating the Bible. Their literary awareness certainly benefits. Their lives?That's beyond the scope of this newsgoup.
Kevin
H G Pataki wrote:
Yo, ease up on Mike. He's just making the point that in fictional works of any kind, there is going to be something unrealistic. Take "Deep Impact"--a movie about a meteor (or comet or whatever) about to destroy earth--if I recall, Morgan Freeman played the President. Hey, wait--we've never had a black President! Should you enjoy the movie any less based on that? There's a reason they call it "fiction."
In article , [email] wrote:
cut
the
all
Please, I
I couldn't have said it better myself. There is nothing wrong with discussing things you like with other people who like them(If I thought there was something wrong with this I would not read this ng). My problem is when people say that something in a work of fiction is unrealistic or couldn't have happened. How could anyone really know since if it's fiction none of that stuff(even the realistic stuff) has happened anyway? In the end it is a judgement call.
Mike
of
I can say it, Mike, because I can make judgement calls in a newsgroup. Just because you disagree that's no reason to tell me to stop doing it. If you disagree, fine. That's one thing. But going so far as to tell me what I should/shouldn't be discussing here is, in all honesty, none of your freakin business. If you don't like it, fine. Respond intelligently if you disagree. If you just don't like it because it's not something you're into, don't sit there and tell me I shouldn't do it. See the differences, Mike? One is a rude, superiority attitude cop and the other is an intelligent I disagree and here's why attitude. You have every right to be a jerk if that's your goal and attack my validity to make statements rather than attack the validity of the statements I make.
In article ,
I don't believe I've told anyone to stop doing anything.
Again, I HAVE NOT told anyone to stop discussing anything in this, or any, ng. I see the difference, but this doesn't even apply here, I haven't told you or anyone else to avoid any subject(now I may have said that I will avoid certain subjects, but I think that is my priority and doesn't concern anyone). My posts in this thread have(mainly) been responses to what others have posted. All I did was make my opinion known and tried to defend it, which is what I thought newsgroups were for.
OK, I'll agree that sometime my posts look condescending but I think I have been trying to argue my point based on what I'm reading. Anyway, 99% of time I post a response, it's based on what I've read and not who I'm responding to(half of the time I don't even look at whom I'm responding to until after I make the post). My goal is not to be a jerk but to try and add something to the discussions and possibly even start some meaningful debates. And about "attack[ing] the validity of the statements" you make, from where I sit it looks like that's what I'm doing. You're the one that's attacking the poster and not the posts. I feel that all I'm doing is trying(unsuccessfully, it seems) to argue my point. Don't let anything I post upset you(and don't take it personally, I for one am trying to have fun here).
I'll repeat it again, just in case you missed it the first two times: I HAVE NOT told anyone to stop discussing anything
Mike
a very defensive and insecure H G Pataki wrote, among other things that I snipped away:
A rude superiority attitude cop? Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you all to The Pot. Pot, Newsgroup. Newsgroup, Pot. In case you can't hear him he's saying, "The Kettle Is Black! The Kettle Is Black!"
Ladies & gentlemen, here's Joe, who is sticking his big fat nose in a discussion between 2 other people. Are you always like a simeon on the sidelines wildly gesticulating like a semaphore, Joe? Mind yer own business. Mike, H G, please go on.
On 10 Jul 1998 00:55:14 GMT, [email] (KrautBiter) wrote:
Ladies & gentlemen, here's KrautBiter, who obviously cannot grasp the simple concept that in a PUBLIC message area, one can say whatever one wants to whomever one pleases. (Gee, what a novel concept... free and unrestricted comment in a public discussion area! Life is good!)
'Scuse me while I mop up my excess sarcasm. Hope I didn't get any on your shoes...
Martin ---- Quinn: Daria, you can't leave me here with those, those yuppies! Daria: Yuppies are from the 80s. Quinn: So, what do you call people with funny outfits who talk about peace and love and stuff? Daria: Trekkies. ---- To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.
In article ,
That is basically what this discussion has been about: I am free to make any statement that is on topic or responds to what someone else has said. Everyone else is free to disagree with me and argue why they disagree with me, but they shouldn't go and insult me if they think I'm wrong. Imagine how boring everything would be if everyone agrees with everyone else. We will disagree on things, but there is absolutely no need to resort to insults. I wonder if KrautBiter realized they did exactly what they said not to do(maybe that was the intent). BTW, this wasn't (and shouldn't be) a 2 person debate since Joe did make at least one other post in this mini-trhead.
Mike
Thanks for posting this. It saves me the time of telling KrautBiter to bite something else.
Yes, but some of us have nothing better to do than endlessly debate points of TV shows. I know I don't
is
nature
If
be
your
In article , [email] wrote:
Nope. In my HS the offensive linemen were all in Honors English, Govt and Physics with me. I was the "Daria"-type as far as fitting in goes - not nearly as cynical though.
I worked as an aide in the attendance office & saw a lot of the *defensive* linemen coming through for detention, etc ;->
"Lee Ann Rucker" writes:
Mine too. In fact, the entire offensive line was basically composed of "nerds-with-muscles" more than "jocks-with-brains."
So, well, I was friends with most of them. This was useful when the entire offensive line of the football team offered to beat the crap out of the bully who picked on nerds.
Always nice when it works out that way.
When you are a nerd in High School (which I am not, honest! Why don't you believe me? I really am. I mean aren't.!) It is not the popular people you worry about, it is the middle of the pack people who desperately want to be popular. They are the ones that are dangerous. (Or so I've heard from nerds, which I am not!)
Kyle
In article , "Lee Ann Rucker" wrote:
I was an offensive lineman, when I think of it most of the smarts of the team belonged to the offensive line and the quarterbacks.
Mike
After reading this thread, and seeing no sincere replly putting down H G Pataki's original claims, I find you all to be high school wannabees, refusing to admidt to the truth of your own lives. Have fun with a completely ignorant newsgroup out of touch with reality in regards to a show that tries to (supposedly) reinforce reality, not a perverted distortion of it (reality) as most newsgroup members perpetuate.
In article , [email] (L Lassen) wrote:
Does the mean you're leaving?
Bye-bye...
-TDH
Personally, I don't like reality. Reality screws up my life every chance it gets. I'm a lot happier without it. If that makes me out of touch, so be it. So you just take your reality and stick it where the sun don't shine!
L Lassen wrote in article ...
refusing
ignorant
(reality) as
On 16 Jul 1998 21:05:36 GMT, [email] (L Lassen) wrote:
Quick, someone call a hospital! Lassen has cut us to the quick with his razor-sharp wit and high level of intelligence!
Oh, wait, that's not blood. That's tears from the swells of laughter that burst forth as we read this pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Sorry for the false alarm.
Martin ---- Quinn: Daria, you can't leave me here with those, those yuppies! Daria: Yuppies are from the 80s. Quinn: So, what do you call people with funny outfits who talk about peace and love and stuff? Daria: Trekkies. ---- To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.
[email] (L Lassen) writes:
<checks pulse> <checks resperation>
Okay, damn you. You're right. I am alive. I guess you've forced me to admit that.
However, I certainly don't wish to be a high school. I may be overweight, but I'm nowhere NEAR the size of a building.
Heck, I don't even want to be IN high school, let alone BE one.
Okay, I'll admit it. This sentence has me completely boggled.
I could try diagramming it, but it's been at least eleven years since I was last asked to diagram a sentence, and I can't think of any good way to do so in ASCII anyway.
Let's see. It's an imperative, so the subject is "you, implied". We are instructed to have fun. Okay so far, I can do this.
To do so, we are supposed to use a newsgroup.
Okay, I can use a newsgroup to have fun. Heck, I'm doing that right now!
We're supposed to use a completely ignorant newsgroup! Well, I don't have access to any of the AOL members boards, so this may be difficult, but I can try.
The rest of the sentence gets a little too murky to deal with.
On 16 Jul 98 22:51:50 GMT, [email] (Xiphias Gladius) wrote:
Can't do it, personally. I almost died laughing reading Young Mister Lassen's painful attempt at an intellectual put-down. In fact, I'm not really sure I survived the experience...
Bet I'm closer than YOu are. :-)
It's been at least fourteen years for me, and it wasn't over fast enough. :-)
I'd do it, but I've got something a little more fun in mind. I'm going to go into my kitchen and shave my head with a cheese grater while chewing on tinfoil. That should provide a lot less pain than attempting to diagram (let alone comprehend) Young Mister Lassen's mental vomit.
Where do you think Young Mister Lassen came from, anyway? :-)
Martin ---- Quinn: Daria, you can't leave me here with those, those yuppies! Daria: Yuppies are from the 80s. Quinn: So, what do you call people with funny outfits who talk about peace and love and stuff? Daria: Trekkies. ---- To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.
Martin J. Pollard wrote:
Beyond AOL, possibly Highland...
"...Unless there's uranium in the drinking water here, too..."
Jessica :-)
In article ,
So, what's your agenda? Trying to save us from ourselves? Getting spammable email addresses for your pathetic money making schemes? Bolstering your own low self-esteem by exploiting our vulnerabilities?
Go join a Nazi hate-group, and leave us alone. We can insult each other here quite effectively without your meddling.
Strider
In article ,
HG, is that you? I, for one, wasn't disputing HG's claims, I was making a more general statement that just happened to respond to what HG said. He then replied by insulting me. Go back and read them a couple more times, HG was the one doing the insulting. This wasn't even the first time in Usenet that he did this, go back and try to find his posts in "alt.tv.star-trek.ds9" where he did the same thing to another person(I can mail you one of the posts if you like).
Are you one of HG's freinds or are you HG using a different address?
Mike [email]
[email] wrote:
You've offended me terribly! Apologize at once! Unless you're in the involuntary celibacy club with the rest of us, in which case you haven't offended me at all. :)
In article , [email] wrote:
LOL, Well I am DEFINATELY a member of the involuntary celibacy club, so I know I am among friends ;)
I'm sorry. I was in high school there for 3 years....and almost killed myself every day.
I can see clearly now the rain is gone....i love nj....Jewlya
"Don't worry, I don't have low self esteem. It's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else."---Daria ("Esteemsters")
"Cut and paste sweetie, or else no one will know who you are talkin to....and don't u post to be heard and understood?"