As a part-time worker in a community college library in Pennsylvania, I've come across orders for new books. Just yesterday, I typed up an order card for a book concerning the ethics of "The Simpsons" television show, and our library has a new book on the ethics of the four Star Trek series that have been aired (It was way too late for "Enterprise" to be examined, but maybe a revised edition of the book will examine the ethics of "Enterprise").
That got me wondering -- what would be the ethics of "Daria"? And it also made me wonder what the ethics of some of the characters would be? If anybody has any ideas, I'd like to hear them. Maybe a book about the ethics of that show might be published someday -- who knows?
It sounds like your library has just ordered those books, so I take it you haven't read them. Has anyone else read either of them? I'd be interested to know how they approach the subject.
Actually, w.r.t. Daria, I think there have been lots of commentary about the ethics of various characters on this ng, in Mike Quinn's review, Wraith's SSW site, and other places. Much of it dealt with the DDMD situation, but there have been other discussions about not only Daria, Jane and Tom but also Quinn, Helen, Jodie, Sandi, etc. etc.
This is kind of a huge question. One of the main themes of the show is the conflict and reonciliation between Daria's ethical and moral perfectionism and the demands of life in an imperfect world. Part of the reason for several characters (Jane, Jodie, Helen, and Quinn) being there is to show alternative means of resolving this conflict.
Hw�t! We have heard of the glory of chika that wrote news:[email], on the day of 23 Sep 2001:
What do you mean? It's quite clear that, up until the fifth season, Sandi was demonstrably more ethical than Quinn. (Though as I pointed out to MMan, the argument is "Sandi bad, Quinn worse.") I refuse to accept the possibility that I may in any way be biased in favor of the wonderful, heartbreakingly beautiful Ms. Griffin. ^_^
Mark "SANDI R00LZ!!!!" Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus
Actually, I haven't read the book on the Simpsons, but I have read "The Ethics of Star Trek". That one takes a look at the ethical systems of the original series (TOS), ST: the Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and of Voyager. In a nutshell, the book suggested that for each series at least one ethical system was the main one (in the case of TOS, it was Aristotlean ethics, for TNG, Kantean ethics were the most important, for DS9, several existential ethical systems were the main ones, and Voyager put the most stress on Platonic ethics). FYI, Kant happens to be a philosopher named Immanuel Kant.
I think I remember that -- I definitely remember that Wraith thought Jodie was a hypocrite. I don't know if I'd go that far, but I * do * think she's more pragmatic than Daria.
I've found that one of the keys to understanding Jodie is to first understand three of the cornerstones of her life. One is that she has so much on her plate that time is one of the most precious commodities in her life. So she doesn't like to spend time on something when she doesn't have to. Two is how much she cares about Mack (like, as in a /lot/). Three is that because she's dealt with so many people -- especially adults -- in social and business situations, she has a pretty solid handle on how society operates. Once you grasp that, the rest starts to fall into place.
Take "Malled" for example. They find out the field trip is just a scam to use them as a focus group. She knows exactly the right thing to say to scare the mall managers. She also knows that nothing they do is going to change how the mall runs it's focus group scam. At best, they'll pat the kids on the head, make some empty promises about never doing it again, and just make sure they never use that school again (at least for a few years). But there's another angle. If they get out of the focus group part of the mall tour early, it means more time spent in the "roam the mall while pretending to do school work" part. This means more time with Mack, one what with her busy schedule will probably be the longest time they spend alone that week.
Now look at "Partner's Complaint". Jodie went to a lot of trouble to put together that business proposal with, even getting her fathers help to make it something she thought would be foolproof. A shoo-in for approval at the first bank. She just didn't count on guy at the first bank being a racist jackass. Odds are she'd only budgeted the time for one, perhaps two bank visits in-between her packed schedule of normal homework, student gov't duties, household chores, and extracurricular activities. So out of frustration and anger, she opted for the fastest way to get the loan approved -- he father's name.
And finally, "Fizz Ed". Jodie gets annoyed at Daria for two reasons. Daria is perfectly capable of seeing the Superintendent on her own, and Daria has more than enough freetime to do so. Why should Jodie take time out of her busy schedule to do something for Daria which Daria herself is unwilling to do. The second is that Daria has no problem objecting to the money because she has nothing to lose if the money goes away. Jodie, on the other hand, does. Jodie is the one who will have to organize fundraisers for the school's model UN trip. Jodie is the one who will have to go out and sell candy and wrapping paper and phone cards. Jodie is the one who will have to spend all of her time doing that, and not being able to spend any time with Mack (after the summer, she is acutely aware of how much he feels he sometimes plays second fiddle to her activities). And speaking of Mack, with the school unable to afford proper gear for the football team, he (and the other players) are the ones who will have to go out there and risk serious -- perhaps even life-threatening -- injuries. None of this occurs to Daria, nor does she offer any ideas for how to replace the desperately needed money. And this is what pisses Jodie off.
This is the ultimate difference between Daria and Jodie. Daria has always lived in a theoretical world of ideals, and it's only since coming to Lawndale and getting emotionally involved with other people that she's starting to see that practice doesn't always live up to theory. Jane doesn't fit with her ideals of what she thought a best friend would be like (Jane develops interests which Daria doesn't share, and takes an interest in other people, which, because of her impossible ideal, makes Daria fear that she's losing Jane's friendship), Tom doesn't fit with her ideals of what she thought a boyfriend would be like (they have arguments -- like real couples do -- for one thing), and so on. Jodie, on the other hand, has spent most of her highschool, and perhaps jr highschool life involved in things like student gov't, watching her mom at work, and other activities out in the real world. She lives in a concrete world of experience, and understands that things don't always work out perfectly, no matter how much we try to make it so.
Jodie shares her parents' idealism. She just also knows enough about the world to be realistic about how things work. She's also a bit better than Daria about vocalizing her hopes and wishes (something Daria still has problems with, although she's been improving a little) and at working to fulfill them.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
A good description of Jodie's actions from her point of view. I definitely can understand (at least to some degree) where Jodie's coming from. Now if we can only persuade Wraith to look at Jodie's side of the story, that would be perfect.
I wish they'd gotten more into Jodie's character in this series. It's clear she's not crazy about the things she has to do sometimes and if they stressed that a little maybe people would be more understanding of her. Maybe we'll see that come IICY. I hope.
I still feel like this series deserves a sixth season.
There's no "probably" about it. Let's face it: 'Daria' has been robbed of a sixth season by the MTV suits because it didn't make enough money for them this year. (Could it have been because of the "Evil Tom" fallout, and no, I'm not personally blaming Tom becoming Daria's BF as the cause)
On top of that, 'Daria' hasn't even appeared in re-runs here in the States since "Boxing Daria" (save for "OJAAT" once, I believe). If you read the TOON article about Eichler's reasons for doing no more Daria, you might see a subtle hint when he was told by the MTV suit (name inserted here, I forgot who) for a "half-season", Eichler said no. This would indicate (to me, at least) that he indeed would've done a sixth (and THEN final) season. I would've been satisfied with this, even going so far as to have the final three eps of the series be devoted to Daria going to college (as opposed to "IICY?" on it's own). It's a shame that MTV treated 'Daria' the way they did. I really believed that it was the best MTV 'toon ever, IMHO. Thanks.
Mostly it might have been the fact that they moved the show to ten o'clock Monday nights, right in the middle of Wrestling, as opposed to keeping it on Wednesday nights where it seemed to do better. There was some displeasure among the die hard fans for the relationship but I don't think that could have been enough to torpedo the series.
Possibly. It sounds like a take it or leave it proposition. Eichler decided to leave it.
I would've been
I would have liked the idea of the college angle being developed naturally over the process of thirteen episodes instead of being force-fed. Let's face it, as good as IICY? might be (and we haven't even seen promos yet), it's still going to feel like a rush job.
It's a
They just didn't get the series. At least we got five seasons. They could have done it in after a couple episodes like they did with so many other cartoon series, like The Maxx and Downtown.
I always thought The Maxx finished, last episode I saw he finally had his own version of the 'outback' where he was a normal guy in a greenhouse. Felt finished to me anyway.
It was. I suppose, though, that if they'd had a longer contract, the writers could have still had more shows, and put the ending off until whenever the final season came.
That's one show that MTV really needs to pull out and run again.
On 22 Sep 2001 22:30:47 GMT, [email] (Belle Book) wrote:
Daria and Jane are cynics in the original, classical sense. This has little connection with the word's modern use as a fly-swat for anyone who criticizes Catholicism. Diogenes and his followers revolted against the original conspicuous consumption culture, ancient Corinth. Our heroines are in the tradition of Vance Packard and others who, from the 1950s onward, attacked the brainwashed, status obsessed consumers of America and countries in its orbit. Sorry, is that a bit heavy for a Sunday?
******Martin Edwards.******
Come on! Nobody's gonna drive that lousy freeway when you can take the Red Car for a nickel
Well, apart from what has come before here, I guess you'd need a whole series of books to deal with the ethical dimension of this series. The trouble as I see it is that dealing with a cast that is, essentially, teenage means that the ethical side of each person is still developing, and while some of it can be extrapolated from the usual stuff that occupies folk of that age, a lot of it is subject to change at any given time.
That said, much of it can be gained from just observing Daria herself, since most characters seem to have trouble maintaining their artifice in her presence. As for the rest, continued watching can show that a lot of the adult characters can be a little two-dimensional. For example, Ms. Li seems to only be concerned with self-advancement, a problem that occurs in many public service hierarchies (in this country we call it "empire building"). The various teachers are, to a great part, characatures, although at least the writers have seen fit to explore a few possibilities, but essentially they show that adults are possibly more screwed up than children sometimes give them credit for.
However, if an overall message can be taken, it is that there is no direct message. The series basically attacks the current notion that being smart is somehow unacceptible and that "brains" should be outcast by showing exactly what the alternatives are, with a number of subtexts attacking some of the underlying falsehoods that support the "youth culture", including idiots such as "Val as in Val" and that Sherman creep. By blowing these notions up to full size for all to see, the show is examining the very culture it portrays; the stupid jock, the bimbo, the brain, tokenism, the corruptness of the system and so on.
Honestly, you could write books about this stuff, though I wonder if anyone would read them. The trouble is that sometimes I can see the show getting far too close, and as Jack Nicholson famously said, "you can't handle the truth!" Even if Daria were accepted for her "brains", her acidic wit would automatically alienate her again, whilst the majority of those involved would just take the people portrayed as an affront and ignore it, returning to their own lives, oblivious to the lesson being taught.
"Yes, Kevin?" "I'm not very smart, but I can throw a ball, so I don't care!" "You tell 'em, Kevvy!" "So I get an A for that, eh Mr. O?" "WAAAAAH!!!"