s3 episode -- 3 March 1999 (LONG)

(length alert...ya might wanna print this baby up and read it in installments)

(cool beans...you're still with me)

Highlights from last night's episode:

(wait...stop the presses..."FANatic"...the biggest TLC fan was from Poteet, TX, a small town a few miles outside San Antonio...weird...and I talk like the sister, too...weirder.... Anyways...)

OK, so this was weird. I knew that making Daria and Jane do this activity would backfire. I just didn't figure the backfiring would be the way it was. And...I can totally relate to working in an old folks' home. I did it for my compulsory volunteer service hours for high school (25/yr for freshman year, 88/yr from sophomore - senior year [including NHS hours]).

Working in an old folks' home is depressing. At first, it doesn't get to you. You actually like it, in fact. You like how you meet these smiling faces wizened with experience, and the feeling you get when you help someone actually gets to you and makes you feel great. Then you see the death and the dying in the eyes of the residents, and it starts to depress you. When you finally realize that you not only know the inside and outside of the home like the back of your hand, but also you've started to go to the obituaries section AND KNOW YOU'LL KNOW AT LEAST ONE PERSON IN THERE, you want out. I know this -- I don't ever want to be put into a nursing home, knowing how some of the paid staff treat the residents and how deeply depressing the establishment is. And where I worked at it was brightly painted and decorated, too, with some really good and hard-working people, too.

So I can see where Daria doesn't like the whole concept of the nursing home. It must've freaked her out to see so many old people in one place, seeing as though I don't think she's seen anyone nearly as old as them in her life. What shocked me was how well Brittany adapted to the atmosphere. Maybe it's because she has as many working brain cells as the mentally deteriorating older people. I do know this, though -- in real life, Brittany's "cheerleader peppiness" thing wouldn't wholly work in a nursing home. Sure, they might love the fact that she's inherently sugar sweet and that she smiles all the time (older people love when you smile), but her voice would've probably started to grate on some of the residents, especially those residents who wear hearing aids.

The decor...well, a little bit of the decor was right in the nursing home (knowing where the home was located, I would have to guess it was probably an upscale kinda home). I mean, some of the scenes in "Daria" made the home look like a lower income kinda home. They would probably not do that to the residents in real life. Although I did see scenes from "Daria" that made the home look like a waiting room in a doctor's office, which was the kind of decor the home I worked at (and the home my late grandma was put in) had. You know, with the flower paintings, the desert pink wallpaper, white trim, peach accents, flowery lamps, plush peach and desert pink couches in the visitors' area, that kind of thing. Ah well...it's only a cartoon.... :)

Moving on (because I could nitpick about the elderly home scenes for ages)...

I figured the Fashion Club would use the excuse of the volunteer week as another reason to shop, but man, they really stooped down low. I wanted so badly for Quinn to gain the extra backbone she needed so that she could take charge and do the collection the right way, but of course Stacy kept charge and the Fashion Club suffered. They really should have mutiny and restart the Club with Quinn as president. I have a feeling this girl has tons more feeling and depth than we've seen. Maybe Daria will be right about her predictions....

The scene with Chocolate Lady was funny, though. Interesting to see how Quinn reacted almost the same way Daria did to her.

Mrs. Li needs to be shot. Now. Please. She is a despicable example of principalship and she really needs to be gotten rid of. If the superintendent really knew how egotistical and just plain bad this principal is, Mrs. Li would probably be out on her keister. Shame, shame, shame (or, if you wanna do it like I did it when I was younger, do the mondegreen and sing, "shame, shame, shame, shame of fools" instead of "chain, chain, chain, chain of fools"). She really sunk to new lows at the student presentation. Man, I had a horrible principal myself, but at least she was (a.) competent, (b.) actually concerned about the students, and (c.) not a pretender. Actually, she wasn't that bad. She was just cold and mean, but would sometimes give you a hug. And she did focus on all groups of students equally, that much I'll give her. You can see her mug on the main page of my alma mater's website at http://www.providencehs.com/ . Oh yeah, and she loves Miller Lite beer. Especially when it's hot outside. Trust me, I've seen her down those babies faster than I downed my soda. Really.... Go Sr. Ramona, go. :o)

We finally get to see the full Taylor family! (You don't know how weird it is for me to refer to a "Taylor" and NOT talk about a bassist named John, a guitarist named Andy, or a drummer named Roger.) Mr. Taylor looked and sounded a bit like a male counterpart to Helen (competitive workaholic), but only a bit as he (a.) was a bit sleazy and (b.) couldn't control himself like Helen can. Mrs. Taylor -- hmmm, so we see someone who's probably influencing Brittany too much. I couldn't believe how dumb she was -- I mean, really. She was dumb as a post. I think Brittany is probably more intelligent than she is, although I would prefer to hear Mrs. Taylor's voice. The brother was a riot, though. Why couldn't we have seen more of him?

Was it just me or did Brittany's room look a lot like Quinn's? Overly pink and overly ruffly. I thought for a second that Brittany was over at Daria's house, that both of them were going over things in Quinn's room, and that any second Quinn would come in with the Fashion Club. Ah well...at least we got to see how much Brittany truly wanted to help Daria out, in her own way. Poor girl -- I'm starting to kinda even hope that Brittany DOES teach Daria something that sticks with her. And that Daria teaches something to Brittany, as well.

Jane really seemed to dig her assignment. But then again we all know how much she loves doing art, especially if it's (a.) reactionary and/or (b.) quite graphic. It's interesting how Jane seems to adapt to things more than Daria can, but that eventually this "adaptation" is found out to be just another way Jane has found to bring forth her own point of view and her own way of thinking onto the unsuspecting masses. I really had hoped that perhaps Jane WOULD get to work more with the children in the hospital, because it was not only helping her out, it was also helping the children out. I mean, there is such a thing as too much saccharine, even in a child's life. Jane's eventual banishment from the children's ward felt to me like a letdown because the children really needed someone like Jane in their lives. Ah well...guess it had to be, because of its "See Jane Run"-like elements. But then again, Daria ended up keeping up with the whole "reading to a senior" arrangement (thanks to a kind older lady who liked her voice -- you go, older lady! You've got taste!).

Oh, and one more thing...GLASSES! Our Daria probably is still uncomfortable with those contacts, so she's back to glasses. Coolness.

This episode did have some of its not so good points (but then again I'm really picky about the nursing home scenes seeing as though I've seen enough of them). But all in all it was a cool episode. It had me rolling with laughter and shaking my head. And I give it four and a half dancing, prancing, romancing ferrets.

Ciao. I'll try not to do another lengthy postie for a while, 'kay? Honest engine. Really -- (sees fingers fall off) -- ooops....

deena lissa it's hard typing with two fingers *g* "You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article , deena lissa wrote:

Deena Lissa, you're not the only one who immediately thinks D2 when I hear "Taylor" <g> But when I saw the family, all I could think was the Daria Database didn't do them justice. Ashley Amber was dumber (more dumb?) than I'd imagined. I'm hoping Brittany isn't as stupid as she seems. At least she has more brains than Kevin.

robyn lesley "and when she shines she really shows you all she can" (Duran Duran, Rio)

True. Then again, so does Kevin's football.

In article ,

I'd

Hey Robyn, love your e-mail address! I LOVE "Khanada" -- it's one of my favorite songs! Anyways....

Great to see someone else who's a Duran fan who loves "Daria"! I know, right? It's so weird to think of these whole 'nother Taylors, isn't it? Glad to find someone else who agrees.

I myself was kinda expecting the Taylors to be a little like the way they were -- I mean, Ashley Amber seemed to me to be like she would be on the dumb side and Mr. Taylor seemed to me to be like he would be kinda sleazy. But this episode -- man, it not only proved what I thought but also kinda overproved it. So I guess I'm like you then, eh?

*giggle*...doesn't it, though? I mean, about the part where Brittany seems to be able to be more intelligent than Kevin. I mean, at least Brittany seemed to be conscientous about the fact that these are seniors they're reading to by the time they arrived there at the home. I can only hope Kevin starts catching up, 'cos he certainly needs it.

Glad to see a fellow Duranie Darianite on the ng!

deena lissa

(change .sig to honor Robyn's signoff) "I've seen you on the beach, and I've seen you on TV" (Duran Duran 1982) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article , deena lissa wrote:

You and me both. I was SO hoping that Quinn would make a stand. She wanted to ... you could see the wheels turning ... but she kept it to herself. I think that as she gets a bit older she will come into more conflict with Sandy (sp?). Not because she wants control, but because she will realize that the FC doesn't really do anything for her, and will get tired of Sandy's controlling nature. At least I'd hope ... the alternative is for nothing to ever change.

Scott

I'm so glad I went to a high school with no social conscience. All that compulsory youth service stuff makes me sick. It's just too much social engineering for my taste.

<>

I found Brittany's step-mother much more disturbing than just a bad role model. After all, Mr. Taylor commented on how she was getting too old, so she probably hasn't been around for long enough to be much of an influence. Taking that as an assumption for a moment, why is she so much like Brittany? I guess Mr. Taylor just happened to pick out a woman who was very much like his daughter. Creepy.

Have you seen 'The Lab Brat?' If not, you can catch a little more of Brittany's little brother.

compulsory youth service stuff makes me sick. It's just too much social engineering for my taste. << Eric Stevenson

I agree. Making it compulsory makes it essentially meaningless. And amounts to using high school students as slave labor.

I guess Mr. Taylor just happened to pick out a woman who was very much like his daughter. Creepy. <<

Though of course, this could be because Brittany's real mom may have been a lot like Brittany when she was younger. What's really disugsting here is the whole "disposable wife" idea underlying it ... when your wife gets too old, trade her in for a newer model!

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Yeah, Mr. Taylor was a regular Hugh Hefner/Donald Trump. Did you catch his comment about his current 20-something wife "being a knockout when she was young..."

his comment about his current 20-something wife "being a knockout when she was young..." << Adam

Yes, it added to the creepiness factor. Y'know, this is much too dark to ever be hinted at on the show, but do you see him having sexually abused Brittany to be a very real possibility? He clearly treats women with very little concern for them as human beings, and Brittany is a sexy little thing who looks just like his female ideal ... ?

It would explain a LOT about Brittany's personality ... girls who are sexually abused tend to either become very withdrawn (shame) or if more extroverted they learn the "lesson" that the way to make the male figures of importance in one's life do one's bidding is to sleep with them. And Brittany seems to feel that the way to be "nice" to a guy is to have sex with him, basically ... who taught her to act this way?

Sincerely Yours, JOrdan

On 6 Mar 1999 11:59:31 GMT, [email] (Jordan179) wrote:

Not a chance in hell. Brittany is definitely in control of that relationship.

___
Kyle

You wanna come over here and say that? Oh, you do? I was kinda hopin you'd back off, so nevermind.

Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)

Kyle wrote:

Yeah, I think she is. She doesn't seem much like she's been sexually abused, but I will admit to not being too informed on the subject. <g>

JBassior wrote in message ...

to

I think it's idiotic from a public policy standpoint. Johnny can't read but instead of studying he's out on the highway picking up trash and planting petunias. So the schools turn out a bunch of functional illiterates who aren't capable of doing anything except free volunteer work then the schools want more money to "fix" the problem. It would be cheaper just to hire some people to do the volunteer work and let the kids concentrate on getting an education.

Brittany?

his

lot

whole

her

Brittany's step-mom is definitely a "show wife" but what happened to Brittany's natural mother? Is Mr. Taylor divorced or widowed? If divorced, it's kind of unusual, even nowadays, for the kids to be living with the father instead of the mother. They've been hinting about the step-mom issue ever since "Write Where it Hurts" but I think they may need to expand on this a little more.

I'd say it's probable that Mr. Taylor's taste in women tends to run toward the blonde bimbo so I'd guess that Mrs. Taylor #(2+n) [how many might there have been?] is probably a great deal like Brittany's mother. In that case I'd guess that Brittany comes by her natural "talents" honestly. OTOH, she might have inherited some of her father's abilities too. Maybe that's where the tactical reasoning in "The Daria Hunter" came from. Brittany might turn out to be a far more complex character than any of us suspect. Maybe she needs a brainy friend like Daria to help her develop her latent talents--maybe while Brittany is helping Daria work on her voice and wrapping hair around a finger and looking vacant.

Bob

In article , "R. K. Henry" wrote:

Actually, I will have to go on the record here...my high school was a VERY good high school, very competitive and definitely college prepatory. They did cram us with tons of education, and I remember almost every single class being rigorous and demanding. They required us to do our volunteer work on the side, although sometimes some of our teachers would allow us to take an hour or two off so we could do something on-campus that would count toward our service hours. And whenever we used to have blood drives, those who donated blood not only got out of class but also got an hour of community service tacked onto their totals. But this didn't in any way deter us from getting a proper education. The teachers made sure we learned every last bit of information or else we were in serious trouble by semester's end (never mind year's end -- that was just too far away). And our class size changes showed that. My freshman class started out with 183 people in it, but by the time graduation rolled around we ended up with 111 people. 72 people had either misbehaved so badly they were kicked out, or found the courses too demanding and wanted out. So...my high school was rigorous. And everybody certainly knew what they were supposed to know. So there.

(snip out interesting stuff about the Taylors & Brittany)

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

Read the "Database." It's all in there. Brittany's first mom left to pursue an acting career in LA.

rich.

Tiffany: "Oh, no. Wind, hair."

In article , [email] wrote:

Yo Robyn, wherever you are...why does this sound so familiar? ;)

(*hint* *hint*)

deena lissa who just remembered that it isn't "Sooner or Later" but "Save it for Later" (d'oh!)

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

instead of studying he's out on the highway picking up trash and planting petunias. << R. K. Henry

Which may well be Johnny's fulltime job someday, if he can't read.

capable of doing anything except free volunteer work then the schools want more money to "fix" the problem. <<

Just another example of politiicans displaying "compassion" by forcing other people to donate time or money to the politicians' favorite causes.

let the kids concentrate on getting an education. <<

Cheaper longterm. More expensive in the short run, which is what politicians generally think in terms of.

Brittany's natural mother? <<

Probably divorced.

with the father instead of the mother. <<

Yes, but it happens. And Brittany's father looks aggressive enough to have gotten his own way.

the blonde bimbo ... <<

Yep.

probably a great deal like Brittany's mother. In that case I'd guess that Brittany comes by her natural "talents" honestly. <<

Probably.

that's where the tactical reasoning in "The Daria Hunter" came from. <<

Yes. Brittany acts dumber than she is, because she's been taught that this is how to behave.

suspect. Maybe she needs a brainy friend like Daria to help her develop her latent talents -- maybe while Brittany is helping Daria work on her voice and wrapping hair around a finger and looking vacant. <<

Ever wonder what Brittany's *thinking* about when she "looks vacant". Actually, while I don't think she's any genius, Brittany is no moron either, and she could really use friends who appreciated her for something beyond her bubbliness and good looks.

The sad thing is that Brittany is crippling herself educationally and intellectually by her attitude, perhaps so badly that she won't be suited for any other role than the wife or mistress of some "sugar daddy". If she's unlucky, she'll wind up being a "first wife" discarded later for a "trophy" ... the probable fate of her mom.

This is a shame, as I think she's really a rather nice person.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Jordan179 wrote:

I do this all the time, looking vacant. One of my many irritating habits. I try to avoid thinking about anything, although it usually doesn't work. :(

Yeah, she means well most of the time. Several of my friends are a bit like Brittany in some/many ways, especially in that she's "perky" or whatever you want to call it, bubbly, lively, friendly....

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

of us

talents --

Yeah, I know what you mean--and that scares me. <G> I prefer to think of it as being, "lost in thought"--just staring into space while you turn stuff over in your mind. Just shut out the outside world and think. Based on outward appearances everyone probably thinks you're on drugs or having an epileptic seizure or something but you can sometimes come up with some of the most interesting insights that way. Sometimes you suddenly jump up and shout, "Eureka!" or whatever and run off to try out whatever new idea you've just come up with.

she

for

"trophy" ...

This might be the great burden of attractive women (oh yeah, poor little things). Because they're attractive no one cares if they're intelligent or not. If they're allowed to get away with it, they'll try to get by on their looks without ever attempting to develop their intellect at all. I'm reminded of a remark made by a respected member of the medical profession, "Money can make anybody beautiful." I wonder if the same could be said of intelligence. Note here the difference between intelligence and education. You can buy an educational experience but it won't necessarily make you intelligent.

Bob

"R. K. Henry" wrote:

I do that all the time, too, but it's different to just looking vacant. It scares people because I'll throw a hissy fit if anyone talks to me.

I do that occasionally, apart from the "Eureka!" bit. <g> I tend to get rather annoyed if people disturb me at such times. I scream at them until they leave me alone, as with the previous thing. :)

That wasn't quite what I meant (although it is probably very true). I meant more that she had this sort of bouncy quality about her personality (and her - no, I won't go into that <g>) and she always smiles and stuff. That's how she's like some of my friends, the constantly warm and happy thing - I don't talk to many attractive people because most of them have their heads so far up their own arses that they can't hear what you're saying. Aside from having an under-developed (or a total lack of) intellect. :)

"endless, nameless" wrote:

I know what both of you mean, and that *really* scares me. <g> Sometimes I just feel like staring at something, and not thinking about anything, and if someone disturbs me, it really pisses me off-- it's sort of like a short "brain vacation." I *hate* to have my vacations interrupted. <g>

For some reason, I never get good ideas from this-- I get good ideas when I'm thinking about something totally unrelated, and the idea just pops into my head. It's weird, and sometimes annoying. <g>

For years I got a lot of crap from cheerful people who always asked questions like, "Why are you always so downbeat?" or "Why are you always such a storm cloud?" (In fact, one girl called me Storm Cloud for about a year, until, thankfully, she moved.) I found that the best way around it was to learn how to fake being cheerful and happy. I can actually keep up a good stream of inane chatter while I ponder bigger issues, like the pointlessness of it all. <g> Around my close friends, I know I can turn it off and be my natural sometimes broody self, and around people I don't know as well, I know I can turn on the shields as needed to deflect the stupid questions that would otherwise inevitably occur. *shrug* It works for me. <g>

rich.

Jane: You're a twisted little cruller, ain't'cha?

paperpusher wrote:

Mine are long brain vacations, though. This tends to cause problems. <g>

Ditto.

I find this too. I'll be talking to someone and I'll have an idea and have to go write it down and I'll yell at the person I'm talking to to shut up so I can get the idea clear in my head, and they'll get rather annoyed. Hmph.

I'm not good at the stream of inane chatter, but I'm learning. :) It's useful, because if you talk to people, you'll find that some of them are worth talking to, which helps restore some faith in humanity. :)

In article , "R. K. Henry" wrote:

Is it all right to admit that when you're "lost in thought" you look like you're angry at something? Furrowed eyebrows, downturned mouth ends, that whole deal? Because that's what I've been told I look like whenever I've been daydreaming.

(been a really long weekend)

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

deena lissa wrote in message ...

it

and

you've

been

Of course it's all right. You can admit anything here. In fact such admissions help people who would never admit anything like that publicly. I must admit I'm just a little surprised at the number of people here who admit to being "lost in thought." I thought I was the only one. But someone has to make the first move and break the silence.

Bob

On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:06:32 GMT, deena lissa wrote:

Er.. wasn't that last old lady DEAF? She couldn't hear her anyway, and was probably complimenting Daria 'cause she was lonely and wanted the companionship. Or maybe it was just out of politeness, who knows. The fact that Daria came back later to tell her new Melody Powers story in such graphic gory detail, without an iota of reaction from the old lady, probably indicates that the old lady WAS rather deaf. So why did Daria come back to tell the story to a deaf person? Because Daria was sick of reading saccharine crap, and wanted to read something gory and good for a change without getting a bad reaction.

I'm welcome to comments :)

Nicole Lee

In article , deena lissa wrote:

I remember a TV show from Britain which went inside many people's houses and let them discuss their decor. It was amazing how many women filled their bedrooms with pink ruffles and cuddly toys ... just as it was amazing how many men went in for black leather and chrome ... both are 'looks' that I would consider a fantasy appropriate for a 12-yr-old, not something an adult should indulge in.

deena lissa wrote:

"Compulsory volunteer service"? Makes a lot of sense!

In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:

Y'know, I never thought of that. Truly nonsensical, right? Well...um...actually, it was "volunteer" in the sense that I didn't get paid for it. But it was also "compulsory" in the fact that if you didn't do them you just didn't pass over to the next grade level.

But yeah, it does sound like an oxymoron, doesn't it?

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article , deena lissa writes:

However, volunteer also implies that you have a choice. You didn't. The local public school district here has a similar policy. You need to complete 30 hours of "Community Service" by the end of your sophomore year, or you don't start your junior year. Of course, they allow credit for nearly anything: running the scoreboard for the local athletic association baseball and soccer games, handing out bulletins at a church service, that kind of stuff. Most of it is utterly meaningless as far as inculturating the ideal of community service is concerned. It's another hoop to jump through.

On the other hand, we've gotten a lot of students to join the Junior Fire Brigade of our Volunteer Fire Department. I don't think the school district knows what these kids are learning: The three or four obscenities they didn't know already. Utter contempt for idiots who are too stupid to keep from injuring themselves or setting their property on fire. How to impress gullible members of the opposite sex with absolutely no merit on your own part, merely by association with a "cool" organization. Of course, there *is* the serious firefighting and EMS training, but the ones who take that seriously are the one who'd have joined the department without the coersion of the school district. For them, it's seriously cool. They get credit for doing what they would be doing anyway. And for the others, at least now they know what'll happen if they're too stupid to keep from injuring themselves or setting their property on fire.

Anyway, the local chapter of the Ayn Rand Institute (which opposes *all* volunteerism, even the voluntary kind) has written protest letters to the school board. It hasn't helped. Hmmm. I wonder if Jodie has any greater appreciation for Ayn Rand after *her* compulsory volunteer experience? (You'll recall, in "Gifted" she says she finds Rand "pretty disturbing").

Discussions on objectivism vs. volunteerism, anyone? At least it wouldn't require spoiler space. Unless it would.

Peace Kevin

In article , [email] (KTrick45) wrote:

She did volunteer work alright, only she was not the one volunteering--the school administration volunteered the use of its students to the community. Of course, for it to _truly_ be volunteer work, the school must also not be receiving any kind of payment or perks.

<<To volunteer means to offer your services freely, without compulsion or consideration of compensation (e.g. money)>>

my school had compulsory community service, too, but i dont ever remember actually getting actual credit for any. i used to help out in the nursery school at my school (it was N-12), and in the office when i was a senior, so maybe that counted. Saerah

community service is concerned. << Kevin

And irrelevant to one's education, in any sense other than being a pointless requirement getting in the way of actual learning.

I think that "compulsory volunteerism" is a contradiction in terms, and one which helps disguise the fact that what it amounts to is temporary slavery. Oh well, at least it prepares young minds for dealing with the IRS ...

There's a good fanfic involving the IRS, btw, I think C. E. Forman wrote it.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

KTrick45 wrote:

Nah. I think we can do without it.

I've successfully avoided volunteering this and last year simply because none of the causes in our area interest me enough. For some reason, they won't accept testing blocking software for Peacefire and answering telephones at the local political left wing radio station as "service..."

Anyway, interestingly enough, the lady at our school who is the head of the Senior Service Project (the clumnation of the four years of compulsory volunteer service that we all have to go through) also requires her AP Senior English class to read "The Fountainhead." I'm not sure of her reasons for that, but I find it more than a little hypocritical. I'd like to say that she's probably just trying to expose the class to different viewpoints, but I'm a little too jaded with my school's policies and actions in the past to do so. I'm not in the AP class (which is a long and bitter story in and of itself, which I won't go into here), but I have read "The Fountainhead" (and "Anthem," and "Atlas Shrugged" as well) so I know what she's exposing the class to. While objectivists don't really approve of any volunteerism, I'm more of the mind that it's fine as long as you're not forced into it--which is of course what these schools are doing. Compulsory volunteerism is an utterly ridiculous concept.

And I can say is that I wish there was a local Ayn Rand Institute to write letters to MY school in protest. Dammit.

--J. (who is going off to drive in about 5 minutes--eep!)

Ayn Rand rears her decaying head in a.t.d yet again...

I don't think Objectivists oppose the voluntary kind of volunteerism. At least if said Objectivists actually *read* Ms. Rand's writings rather than go off half-cocked.

What this thread is all about is the built-in absurdity of this kind of forced volunteerism. Being "volunteered" by your school is SLAVERY, pure and simple. It is a contradiction...the very word "volunteer" is based on the Latin word Voluntas, which is identical with the Greek word Thelema. Both words meen Will, and not only Will, but FREE Will.

You can't do something of your own free will if the damn school district says you won't graduate without doing your Community Service time. It ceases to be voluntary then. It is not you doing something by your free will. You are doing it under a threat...do the time or you don't graduate. And if one doesn't graduate HS for any reason you are essentially dead in the water job-wise. Basically the school districts that do this are basically holding one's livelihood over a person's head.

This whole thing is BULLSHIT and I am surprised that nobody's SUED school districts that do this "Volunteering" of their students. It's got to be a violation of several clauses of the Bill Of Rights and the Constitution. I'm glad I got out of school before this kind of stuff started.

Take care,
--.\\<-H--

Klein-Hass

This sounds like a line from *Zombie Shrugged* ...

And of a particularly repulsive sort, since it's minors being "volunteered" for the duty. Weren't the Child Labor Laws supposedly established to put an end to this sort of thing? Or were they only meant to prevent kids from getting valuable work experience (the manner in which they seem to actually be enforced).

says you won't graduate without doing your Community Service time. It ceases to be voluntary then. It is not you doing something by your free will. You are doing it under a threat...do the time or you don't graduate. <<

Essentially, extortion. Because the "experience" provided by this "voluntary" work is hardly of an academically valuable nature, and it is thus not really part of the curriculum.

districts that do this "Volunteering" of their students. It's got to be a violation of several clauses of the Bill Of Rights and the Constitution. I'm glad I got out of school before this kind of stuff started. <<

Me too. I also graduated college before "political correctness" was more than a glimmer in the eyes of campus Maoists.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

Actually, ISTR that there were a few lawsuits, but since the practice continues, I assume that the school districts won. (It's not my area of practice, and the cases I do remember re: students' rights pretty much give the school system authority to do just about whatever the hell they please, now including drug testing for almost all students. Ah, what a wonderful society we live in.)

While I also don't agree with the practice of mandatory community service-- hell, isn't that something we sentence *criminals* to? -- the courts would most likely take the stance that the education is free, and that while children are required by state law to attend school until a certain age, the children in question can be educated at a private school or at home. Granted, it still sucks for the kids (and the parents, if they can't afford private school), but that's probably the stance that most courts would take, IMO.

(Of course, the above is should not be construed as legal advice, no attorney-client relationship exists, and you should seek local counsel should you wish to sue your school system. Mileage may vary. Offer void everywhere. Chance of winning 1 in 10,000,000.)

rich.

Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.

Jake: Jefferson!

Helen: Stalin.

In article ,

I don't know how one could sue a school like the high school I went to. It's a private institution, for one thing, and it's not even exactly run by the Archdiocese (I mention that because it was a Catholic school). It has a board of directors who I think administer things with the assistance of the school administration.

Besides, there really isn't anything to sue about from where I went to school. You could get out and enroll yourself into a public high school. It's not like you HAD to graduate from that particular high school or else you were pretty much stuck not graduating from high school altogether.

So there'll be no suing of my high school. Besides, I kinda liked the compulsory volunteering I did...until about second semester senior year, when preparations to go into college, my AP English exam, the rigorous classes I was taking, the loan applications, etc., etc., etc. were all conspiring against me as well as that whole "God this looks depressing now" thing w/the nursing home.

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

"Jessica L." wrote:

Well, now, that explains why my scanner doesn't work! Where did I put that goat? ;-)

rich.

Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.