#313 Jane's Addition comments

too da loo spoileroo!

i t s

J a n e 's

A d d i t i o n

n o t

J a n e 's

A d d i c t i o n !!

spoileroo ends!

Oh man. What an episode. My emotions ran high with this one. I usually don't get emotionally involved in many "Daria" episodes, except maybe LM, but even then it was only in very few scenes. With Jane's Addition, I was glued to my seat just waiting for the outcome. There are some "Daria" episodes where you can anticipate an ending, and you can predict how things will turn out. With this one, there was very little indication of how things would turn out and suspense was at its peak.

I was surprised with Trent's presence in the episode. I admit I was expecting another SJR, and I didn't think Trent would feature prominently here. Boy was I wrong. Trent played a very major role here. As the sound coordinator for Daria and Jane's multimedia project, Trent was actually given a responsibility to finish a music piece within 2 weeks. I doubt he's ever had that sort of deadline with his band. Again and again, Trent's responsibility came into play here. I remember Daria and Trent had a conversation about what Trent was serious with, and Trent said that the only thing he's serious in is his career. Then later when Daria was talking to Tom, Daria expressed her wish that Trent would hopefully do well in the music business because he doesn't seem to fit in any other job.

I was surprised with Trent's lack of responsibility. I know he's lazy, hell we all do. But he couldn't even finish a 30-second sound clip for an all-important school project in time? From what went on, I think Jane's grade depended on that project, while Daria would've passed either way. It's just shocking to me that Trent could've been that reckless with his sister's grades. All because of what? Because he had to get the right tune. Now if that isn't a sign of ego, I don't know what is. It was a 30-second music piece. He already had the high-tech equipment. It obviously wouldn't have been that hard. Daria was right, if he couldn't get it, he could've just told them at the beginning instead of trying to wait it out until the last minute. Trent's right, he does have a different idea of a commitment.

However, I have not given up hope on Trent. I don't think it's right to say that after this episode, all future relationships between Daria and Trent are nil. I have not been a shipper ever, but I think it's only right that we don't jump to conclusions just yet. Trent implied that he wasn't going to change, and Daria implied that she wanted someone with more responsibility. Well at least they're actually talking about it! I mean, previously all we had were grunts, snippets of conversation, and a "Hi" or two. Here they are sitting down, talking about their flaws and beliefs and ways of life. Daria no longer sees Trent as a cool alternative rocker, she sees him as the normal human being he is. Hey, they might not be lovers, but they would definitely make good friends. The D/T relationship is always a never-ending possibility, as implied by that last kiss that Trent gave Daria. That kiss was a CARING sort of kiss. It wasn't a "Sorry things didn't work out" kiss. They had a mutual bond there, and that's a good sign.

However, I will say this much. I am hereby convinced that Daria's crush with Trent is over. Whatever goes on from now on will be a mutual growth of understanding and friendship between the two. No blushing, no embarassment. Just two friends trying to get to know each other a little better. Whether that turns out good or bad, is up to the writers.

Back to the other plot in this story. I like Tom! I'm pleasantly surprised by his effort to make amends between himself and Daria for the sake of Jane. He wasn't pushy or anything, he was just trying to make peace. Tom made it clear that he wasn't stealing Jane, nor was he ever trying to, and he was very friendly toward her - a good thing considering how she brushed him off earlier. Daria ended up liking Tom as well, and I say good for her.

There were some very angry moments in this episode. Daria getting mad at Jane, Daria getting mad at Tom, Tom getting mad at Daria, Jane getting mad at Daria, both Daria and Jane getting mad at Trent. It was an intense episode, showing how complex our two central characters are. Daria was rather of a jerk in this episode - immature and childish too. She didn't like the idea of 'sharing' her friend, and immediately jumped to conclusions by accusing Tom for stealing Jane. Maybe it could be excused because of her inexperience with having a true best friend, but it was still mean.

And poor Jane! She didn't know what the hell went wrong, and was completely innocent the whole time. Although I do find it a little suspect of her jumping off in a car with a stranger. But I think Jane's been a pretty good judge of character so far (except for that Evan episode), so maybe it's excusable (OK so maybe not). If I was Jane, I would've felt like I was losing a best friend AND a boy friend at the same time - not a pleasant feeling. Thank goodness they mended the wounds and got together again. And didja see Jane hold hands with Tom? Something tells me we're gonna see a whole lot more of Tom - maybe he'll even be a permanent part of the show. Quite a good thing, I think, from what I've seen of Tom so far.

Well, enough of the rambling and the ranting, I'll turn in now.

ps: Just completed major school report. Together with that and today's killer "Daria" episode, I feel like a million bucks :)

First off, cry for me. My tape went out when Tom comes up behind Daria at the door. I missed the second half of the episode and only know what happened by reading the reactions.

Storywise, Tom exists as a character shaped by the needs of this plot. His origin is the need for an interesting and inoffensive love interest for Jane in order to generate Daria's reaction without giving her a basis or justification to put him down or reject him. He could certainly become a regular character, but what is wrong with him? Every other character on the show is comicly flawed (Jane least so, but she's there so Daria can have someone to talk to-- she HAS to be inoffensive to the Daria sensibility). If Tom is to have existence beyond being "Jane's Addition" he will have to be substantially further developed.

Storywise, Trent has existed for the "crush" joke. He has been substantially further developed and had great comic flaws because Daria couldn't see them but Jane, as alternative protagonist, could. (Jane has never had difficulty noticing Trent's lazyness, shallowness, or impracticality-- why was he at the fashion show?-- His "plan" for their escape after vandalizing the painting, etc.) His required role was to be the one person in Lawndale that Daria could fantasize about. If Daria now sees him as a human being it changes Trent's role in the show. They will now have a low-key and slow developing relationship because that's why Trent is there-- it will showcase Daria's difficulties in long-term human relationships and allow comic situations--ie can Daria cope with romantic feelings for somebody as shallow and dumb (in many ways) as Kevin. It will be slow-developing because a "real romance" closes off story options such as the new kid.

The fact that Jane (as Greek chorus-- or if you prefer, the person who knows them both best and sees them realisticly with all their flaws) supports the Daria/Trent romance should surely make the story direction clear.

Reading everybody's reactions to Trent's irresponsibility (and didn't you see Trent not comming through as soon as Jane suggested him?) I gather his reason was that he couldn't produce a work good enough. This is not offensive to Daria's values, indeed gives them a remarkable commonality in their artistic endeavors-- did she want the music where Jane and Kevin run off together?

Thomas Fitzgerald Van Horne wrote > >i

the

by

Well if you have a Real Player G2 you can see the episode on my site sometime tommorow. I'm updating tonight so check it out later.

_Ultra-SEVERE_ thanks with a double plus sign.

I thought it would be an indefinate future before I got to see this and the descriptions were totally inadequate. I have now watched the rest of Jane's Addition (and, for the first time, all of Lawndale Files in one sitting-- thanks again)

I believe this is the first time I've watched a full TV program over the net-- I suspect it won't be the last.

Anybody know where I can find a complete Lane Mis?

In article , "Ben Guevara" wrote:

In article , [email] (Thomas Fitzgerald Van Horne) wrote:

My biggest hope as far as Tom goes is that his lines aren't interchangeable with Daria's and Jane's. But I'm positive he'll be a permanent addition to the cast...otherwise the title "Jane's Addition" doesn't seem to mean anything, other than the reference to "Jane's Addiction".

--Tice "Sarcasm!"--Daria, "Daria".

I disagree. I do not think Tom's existance was solely to get a reaction from Daria and to simply push the plot along. That is part of it, of course, but I think a boyfriend, for either of the girls was inevitable. Since Daria's affections are taken at the moment, it's only natural that Jane would be first. And Daria could have still rejected him but she is not petty and once Tom proved to her that he really did care about Jane and Jane's happiness, she swallowed her fears and did what was best for Jane (and herself). I, too, hope Tom becomes a regular character. I also agree that Tom and Daria are a lot alike but I think that's what Jane wants and needs. (Just as Daria and Trent would compliment each other... Jane and Trent are very similar just like Tom and Daria). If she thinks it's a good idea for Trent to have someone like Daria, then why not for herself, as well? And another consideration... in the long run, it would be in Jane's own best interest to have Daria with her brother... what better way to keep Daria close to her then to have her one day become her sister-in-law (and what better way to assure she retains her closeness with her favorite sibling)? I don't agree that Tom's character will have to be "flawed" in some major way... Why can't her be a more "normal" person in their lives. BTW what does he do, do you think? I personally like the idea of his being a college student. (And did anyone notice Jane's character in their project was accepted to college? Early? Foreshadowing maybe?) Tom's character can open up a whole new world for the two girls. And another thing... Now that Jane's got a steady beau (we assume), it's only natural that Daria's thoughts will start to follow along these lines... she's going to get tired of being the third wheel and it would be much more enjoyable if they could double together.

<snip>

I agree that Trent has been used as the crush but I do not agree that Daria didn't notice his less attractive qualities. Just because you have a crush on someone doesn't mean you don't notice their flaws, only that you don't care about them! Daria has always seen Trent's flaws but before she was not thinking about him in a mature, serious way so they weren't too important.

I agree that they can now start building a mature relationship. And that it will most likely be a slowly developing one. Trent has obvious commitment-problems coupled with his own innate laid-back-ness... didn't he keep telling Daria in JA to just take it as it comes and let things develop naturally (loosely paraphrasing). I think this was a message he really wanted Daria to get. Then add Daria's own reticence (sp?) and yes, her fear, of putting her heart on the line and you've got a probable drawn-out, gradually building romance, er, I mean relatinship. I very much disagree that Trent is especially "shallow and dumb." There has been sufficiant evidance to his intelligence, I think, and he's not so much shallow, as self-absorbed. But as we saw in this episode, he is coming out of his own world a little.

Yes, Trent was irresponsible... but I would have been surprised if he had completed it. I think Daria is having more of an influence on Trent then he or any of them realize. The important fact here was that he accepted the responsiblity... I mean, really, how much of a jump was that for Trent? He certainly wouldn't have been so eager to do it for Daria last season. And he was really trying to do it for Daria... He was trying to prove she could count on him. Unfortunately he tried doing it by her rules, not his. I do not think Trent is undependable, there's certainly evidence that Trent has been there consistantly for Jane over the years. You have to consider what type of role models has he had in his life about responsibility? Certainly no positive ones from his parents. Perhaps his couple of visits at Daria's house, with her parents have had some small influence on him? Is it just a coincidence that he broke off his casual relatinship with Monique after a stay with Daria's family? The deadline commitment was just too big of a step for him. But he did try... he went so far as to get new equipment just for their project. And consider too, that in his mind he hasn't really let them down... he will get the music... eventually. :) The purpose of Trent making a point of telling Daria how serious he is about his music (his career!) was to reassure her and maybe even impress her a little. He was being up front and honest, hoping she would accept him for he is.

I did not get the same feeling from Trent and Daria's talk in the pizza parlor. I felt Trent was simply trying to explain things to Daria and trying to tell her not to expect too much of him too soon. Daria seemed to understand what he meant. She told him she understood how he thinks. It seems to me that there was some sort of tenative promise made between them... to try to meet in the middle... and to take things slow and easy, let them naturally develop. The kiss was to seal that promise, I think. Also consider that Daria is young and Trent, if he is starting to think seriously about her, would want to protect his heart... he may very well think Daria might need a littlmore experience with relationships, or maybe not. However I would be surprised if next season if Trent doesn't go on the road (as somebody suggested, I think) or get some other gig/job that is going to keep Daria and him from spending as much time together as they might otherwise. (But who knows... writers are gods in their own worlds). Personally, I think Daria would benefit from a little more experience with dating (more positive ones, that is). She'll be more prepared emotionally for a serious, Lasting romance/relationship that way.

Marie

"Writers aren't exactly people, they're a whole lot of people trying to be one person." -F. Scott Fitzgerald

"Poetry is not a profession, it's a destiny." -Mikhail Dudan

..

EVERYBODY in Lawndale is either majorly whacked, or black, or Jane. (the black thing is just plain wierd-- apparently the writers feel being black is a major personality quirk). "Daria" is mostly a VERY broad comedy populated with absurdly exagerated characters. Tom's most defining characteristic is that he drives a rusty car and he delivers one-liners in Jane's style. Of course you like him-- he has nothing NOT to like-- in Lawndale Tom is a GOD. He is also, in terms of the show, a walking peice of Cardboard. Jane is, at least, an artist-- a defining characteristic. For example, how many pure Jane reactions are based on art. What is Jane almost always doing when Daria is visiting in order to speak her thoughts so the audience can hear them.

(Jimmy Olsen was invented for the 1940's Superman radio show so Clark/Superman would have somebody to talk to, allowing exposition to be presented to the listeners-- Jane is there for the same reason-- in fact one of my favorite Daria jokes is that, in "See Jane Run", without Jane, Daria begins to constantly talk to herself -- GET IT? She's not talking to herself, she's talking to US which Jane allows her not to do)

Second point: SISTER-IN-LAW?? I mean, Jane jokes about it, but do you really think somebody with their education and world view believes that romances developed in high-school are going to last??? Do you think Jane is looking for a HUSBAND? REALLY??? Jane knows Daria's hot for Trent and Trent wouldn't mind and thinks Daria should act on SOME human instinct rather than trying to live as an intellectual automaton-- that's a long way from binding friendship via matrimony.

..

Can be. In some ways. The fashion show-- "Rock stars, models, you know". The painting vandalism caper "How about you wait in the car and try not to fall asleep". "Alternate plan-- cool".

That scene played like this to me.

Trent-- "I screwed up, I tried, I failed, sorry." Daria-- "I accept your apology, but you have failed to live up to my standards for other people's behavior." Trent-- "you're right, I'm not a good enough person for you" Daria-- "I'm sorry, I wish you were a better person."

Trent kisses her goodbye to what might have been. Daria watches him symbolicly walk out the door (to quote Daria from earlier, when Tom had walked out that same door-- "you'd go after him if I wasn't here, wouldn't you?)

Daria sees Jane (and Tom) and sits with them.

Jane, who acts thoughtlessly on emotional instinct is with her boyfriend. Daria who lives for the intellect, has figured out a reason not to be with Trent and is with her friend and her friend's boyfriend.

Did anybody else notice that Trent's artistic failure in this season closer was identical to Daria's artistic failure in last season's closer-- nothing he wrote was good enough.

Thomas Fitzgerald Van Horne said:

You really don't understand Mack and Jodie all that well, do you ... it's not your fault, the writers don't focus on them much. Mack and Jodie are both trapped in expectations ... Mack in the expectation of conforming to the stereotype of an "athletic leader", and Jodie in being the perfect "representative of her race". They both hate it.

I'm not entirely sure that Mack and Jodie really have much in the way of romantic feelings for one another. They seem to be dating primarily because it's expected of them ... he's the most popular black guy and she the most popular black girl in the school (there are clues to this in the books). They certainly are best friends, though.

GOD.

Why do you despise the inhabitants of Lawndale so much? The town's not really that different from most real life upscale neighborhoods. The stereotypes are just a bit more dramatic, that's all.

He's only been in one episode so far, and most of his lines have been devoted to Daria and Jane's character development, rather than his own. Give him a little time, please.

Well yes, but this is true of real artists, too. At least, serious ones.

Yes, I understood that. You missed another point though ... before Daria met Jane, she had nobody to talk to on her own level. Daria may have been self-contained in Highland, but now that she's had a real friend she can't do without one anymore.

Once you let other people touch you emotionally, you can never be wholly isolate again.

They sometimes do, in real life. If Jane really believed that the eventual consequence of her matchmaking would be Daria's heartbreak, I don't think she'd be doing it.

Eventually, yes. Jane's human, you know. Being an artist doesn't mean that she lacks emotions.

No, I do NOT think that Jane's just trying to get Daria "laid". If for no other reason than that she knows Daria well enough to realize that the breakup would be messy and would not be good for their friendship.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

In article ,

I'm more than likely going to hate myself when I wake up this evening for posting on topic, but I've got to on this one.

I've got to admit that while watching 8/18s doubleheader I was getting a little torqued off. I mean heck, if I want conflict I'll give the kiddiecrack back to the boys. Then JA ended and I sat there awestruck. Never, *never* has a toon given me the rollercoaster ride that JA did and I'm afraid that now I'm emotionally hooked on this show. The characters in this ep are now more real to me than most people and that makes me very, very scared.

<hehe> Except for non-farming. ;)

I'm going to have to disagree with you about Trent's ego. I don't think it was an ego thing at all. Trent said that the only thing he's serious about is his art (music career). I think that Trent cares so much about his sister and Daria that when they asked him for his input on the project, he wasn't going to give them anything less than his best. He said himself that he couldn't get it right and he did try.

Quite right. Actual real adult human interaction. I'm not a 'shipper, but I can see the D/T relationship becoming deeper. They are starting to share more of themselves with each other.

Crushes tend to fall apart when you find out that your idol has feet of clay. I think you're right and I'm glad it happened. This puts their relationship in a whole different place, much more adult.

Maybe Daria acted like a jerk, and yeah, she was mean to Tom, but I'm going to float this idea, Daria was scared. She was in fear of losing her best friend to a total stranger, and going to do anything to prevent that. Once Tom was no longer a stranger, her fear went away.

I like Tom. He stands up for himself and doesn't take any sh*t. I hope he doesn't become just another throwaway boytoy of Jane's. If you think about it, if more people knew of Jane's habits with the guys, she could end up with the school's sl*t label.

For me, this was a crossover episode. It had everything in it. Humor, drama, conflict and resolution. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch Daria the way I have been, it's no longer just a toon. I do think that JA should be required viewing for highschoolers, Mature Conflict Resolution 101.

[email] wrote:

Very true-- it was very well-written-- you really didn't know how it was all going to turn out at all. That's one of the reasons it's one of my all-time faves now.

IKWYM. The characters have an added layer of depth that's only been hinted at before.

<snip>

I agree-- I didn't think it was an ego thing, either-- he just couldn't get it together. (BTDTGTTS.) That doesn't excuse him for being a flake, though.

Okay, who's been playing with the Gephardtizing ray gun??? All of the shippers have turned into non-shippers, and all of the non-shippers are turning into shippers-- scary. ;-) That's my way of saying I agree--- the crush has been crushed-- now she actually has a chance of having a real realtionship with him. (And this is why I think it's more likely, and why I'm now pretty much neutral about it-- yes, I've changed my attitiude about a relationship between them-- I think it's pretty likely from an evolution of plot, but I don't think it'd be the catastophe I thought it'd be before JA.

I'll say this about Daria and Trent-- each could stand to have a little of what the other has--- Daria could stand to unclench a little, and Trent could stand to become more responsible about things like deadlines. They could teach each other a lot. (Oh, God, now I really sound like a 'shipper. I feel like I need a shower now. ;-)

Yep-- see above.

Yeah, Tom seemed like a good addition to the show. It'll be interesting to see where he fits in.

<snip>

That's probably the best analysis of the whole thing. The best part is that it made her character even more realistic.

I like Tom, too. As I said before, I hope he doesn't become a throwaway character.

Good point. The funny thing is that here everyone was worried about the chemistry between Daria and Jane being messed up by a Daria relationship with Trent, when instead the threat posed to their relationship came from Daria's reaction to Tom. Either way, I don't think his addition will hurt the chemistry now.

And that Pinto! ;-) Reminds me of a paper I did in 8th grade about the Pinto, and Ford's reckless conduct in allowing such a hazardous product on the market. Precocious little snot, wasn't I? ;-)

This episode does mark a sea change in the show-- the chemistry between the characters is changing rather dramatically, but not in a bad way-- it's developing and maturing unlike so many other shows. That's why I'll continue to watch-- I can't wait to see where they take it now.

You're THAT hungry? ;-)

rich (who still can't get over the whole Yoda thing.)

Daria: "I always knew that I would die in Nowheresville"

Jane: "But I didn't think I'd die there quite so soon."

Paperpusher said:

I completely agree. And that's why I think they may indeed wind up together in the end, after they both mature a bit.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Space Ranger said:

I agree. A possible ironical continuity outcome here would be if Trent finally DOES get it right (he said he was going to, after all) and it turns out to be the tune that makes Mystik Spiral a success at last.

Yes. EXACTLY.

Indeed. Remember, at that point, Jane was her ONLY friend. And remember how Daria felt in "See Jane Run"?

??? Are you watching some totally different series here? We've only seen Jane make out in a closet with Bobby Big-Head and have some ambigious sort of relationship with Jesse before this. How does this make her a "slut"?

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Exactly! Exactly! Exactly!

Hmmn, that sounds vaguely familiar, JB ;)

I have a theory... The eyes may tell the story... Jake and Helen have similarly-drawn eyes, So do Daria and Trent, So do Jane and Tom... Mere coincidence? I choose to opt for fate...

Marie

"Its simple really, very clear, like music floating in the air; invisible yet everywhere." -The Nightmare Before Christmas

MariPoet said:

out to be

Yep. It was our conversation which inspired this realization on my part. You're a VERY insightful person :)

I agree. I think it's a clever artistic convention.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 26 Aug 1999 06:01:49 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

I guess that means Joey and Jeffy could just as well give up competing with Jason (pun!). MSB

Matthias Benkmann wrote in message ...

Ah, but this is true. Joey and Jeffy could never get involved with Quinn - It would be too assymetrical, they're too similar to the other one. Jeremiah (pun!), on the other hand, has almost no chance, but at least it's possible...

Not to mention in Daria's story in "Write Where It Hurts."

guys,

seen Jane

of

Hmm... Should have phrased it better.

I'm not saying that Jane *is* a slut, I'm saying that if she's not careful, she could end up with the *reputation* as one.

Not that I think she'd care, one way or another.

Nicole Lee wrote: spoiler for "Jane's Addition | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ->

stranger ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! I've heard so much talk on how Daria was Jealous and so fourth, (and she was but...) Doesn't occur to anyone that maybe Daria has seen Jane do this kind of thing before...(Bobby Bighead, Evan) and it was a mistake? That maybe she was genuinely concerned for her friend? (If I were into POP Psychology I could go into Jane's need for a boyfriend as being related to her lack of paretial guidence, but I think Pop Pychology is CRAP so I won't)

Also was it just me or does it look like their might be a "Daria-Tom-Jane love circle" kind of thing developing? Hopefully not!

The look on Daria's face reflected more of a stubborn hurt/jealousy of her best friend possibly leaving her. (This is something I once did and almost ruined my friendship with MY best friend.) Sure Daria was genuinely concerned for her friend. She even voiced concerns to Trent. But I believe the main issue was fear of losing her friend to a guy. And at age 17 that's a REALLY HUGE fear.

Love triangle? I hope not, too. I'd prefer to think the writer was just doing what saves most friendships when a guy enters the picture. If Daria becomes a friend (even if only a casual one) with Tom it makes the friendship with Jane stronger. Supporting one's friends is best. And as Tom said, Jane was constantly saying "Daria this..." and "Daria that..." Daria is important to Jane. And maybe Tom will become important to Jane. One always want the important people in his/her life to like one another.

I think "Jane's Addition" was a great episode. Now I'm depressed that there won't be any new episodes until next year. :-(

Robyn

"And when she shines she really shows you all she can." --Duran Duran, Rio

"Well, then, you're already going to hell, so you might as well get the lenses; you'll see the brimstone better." --Amy Barksdale, Daria

remove hatespam to e-mail

Robyn said:

(spoilers for Jane's Addition)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

It started as concern for Jane, and then (as she began to realize that Tom was actually a nice guy, the kind of guy Jane might STAY with) it turned into a selfish, childish possessiveness towards Jane.

Several times.

Especially when you only have ONE real friend. Though by the end of the episode, Daria had three.

Yes. Plus, Tom really was a good match for Jane.

Exactly.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Bob Ohler said:

(spoilers for "Jane's Addition")
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

I agree. At first, Daria was worried because:

• Jane is cocky, reckless, and a lot more naive than she pretends to be.

• She got into the car of an older man she just met.

• She doesn't come back for a while.

• When Daria sees her the next day, she's tired and dishevelled.

• But she acts REALLY glad to see Tom.

Daria was probably worried at first (1-3) that Jane had been murdered or raped, and then when she saw her again (4-5) that Jane had foolishly had sex with a complete stranger. Now that we know Tom better, it seems unlikely that he was that pushy on first acquaintance, but Jane hasn't exactly shown herself to be a master of dealing with men; Tom COULD have been a psycho, and quite a LOT of men in Tom's situation would have tried to take advantage of a naive, insecure (but technically "legal") girl like Jane.

Jane's "weakness" is probably her need for attention ... she prefers approval, but she'll take negative attention if that's all she can get. Tom, who seems very mature (and rather like a male version of Daria, actually) seems like a good match for Jane, because Jane would want to behave well to get his approval. (same way she does for Daria).

Possibly. But I don't think that Tom and Daria would betray Jane without a LOT of provocation.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

..

You seem to be assuming that it would be TOM taking "advantage of a naive, insecure ... girl like Jane".

Am I the only person here who has the distinct impression that Jane is quite possibly sexually active, experienced, and quite enthusiastic about the whole thing? Or do I just have a dirty mind (you know, the BAD kind of dirty).

Just to note, its NOT unheard of for people to enjoy sex (even at Jane's age) and to call Jane's upbringing "Bohemian" is to call for a degree of understatement. And where does "insecure" come from? Or naive? I mean, if we were talking Daria here I'd buy all this-- Jane just seems looking to fill some very human needs that Daria has supressed into Trent psychosis.

It always seems to me that Jane just won't discuss this with Daria because she thinks it would totally freak her (correctly, IMHO).

If I'm missing some piece of cannonical info that Jane is not sexually active, I would appreciate the correction-- I'm not sure I have all the episodes memorized and as I mentioned on another post, I haven't seen the second half of JA due to tape failure (looking forward to Web viewing it tomorrow-- thank the good Lord who gave us obsessive fans and cable modems :-} )

In article ,

mistake?

murdered or raped,

sex with a

that he was

herself to be a

a LOT of

naive, insecure

naive,

is quite

the whole

dirty).

Jane's age)

mean, if we

fill

because

sexually

the

the

it

OK, umm....First of all whether or not Jane is sexually active is mute. (and no MTV has not come right out and said that she is) Getting into a car with someone you don't know is EXTREAMLY DANGEROUS!! (unless those after school specials totally lied to us) Giving someone you've just met your home address is extreemly dangerous also! My point was that Daria's concern was NOT entirely misplaced. She just overreacted a little, and wasn't willing to give Tom the benifit of the doubt.

..

..

moot (no big but fyi) (and no MTV has not come right out and said that she is)

..

Not to position myself as a champion of irresponsible behavior, but it isn't
EXTREMELY DANGEROUS-- its about as dangerous as walking outside
during a thunderstorm.  Yes, you could certainly get hit by lightning and
its safer inside, but you very likely won't.  Having a good impression of
somebody as pleasant, sociable and intelligent is like not standing under
tall trees-- you could still get hit, but lightning strikes are most likely
elsewhere.
Sure, Ted Bundy-- and there was all of one of him in a population of 250
million-- most psychos don't hide it well and they are massively
outnumbered by nice sane folks. (although in Lawndale, not being
obviously psycho should probably set off major alarm bells unless
they're black)
        The important points are 1) Daria thought it was stupid  2) Jane
instantly took substantial risks of several sorts when she found a guy
attractive [contrasting with Daria regarding Trent]   3) it accented
Trent's un(Daria)acceptable coolness "you've got to learn to relax,
Daria".
        My only point regarding Jane's "activity" is that "being taken
advantage of" is a concern only if that's not what you're after!  If her
intent was "give it here, big boy", then, not already having a
convenient houseboy named "Armando", this was probably a pretty
effective way of advancing her cause.

Thomas Fitzgerald Van Horne said:

Only if you're talking about the risk of encountering someone murderously psychotic. There are quite a lot of guys who will assume that any girl who has decided to go for a ride with them alone obviously wants to have sex with them, even if the girl says "no", and will demand their "due" by force if needs be. It's true that the incidence of "date rape" is exaggerated by paranoid feminists, but it does happen.

One's impression of someone based on a conversation that has lasted about a minute is not reliable.

Heh ... actually, most people would be more likely to consider JANE psycho on first impression than Tom ...

She did, and it probably was. Not that I might not have done the same thing as Jane in her position (less than a week ago I did take a ride from a complete stranger), but then again I'm a big man, not a scrawny teenage girl.

That's a very good contrast. Especially considering that Daria DOES know Trent really well.

It showed a difference in their personalities. Daria was overreacting, and Trent underreacting, to the situation. Daria takes after her mother, Helen, in her attitude towards Jane. She acts maternally protective. (Which actually is probably something Jane likes about Daria; when you've gone through most of your life without anyone being that way about you, it's very attractive to find someone who is. Note that Trent also likes Helen, and for the same reason).

I really don't think that Jane had sex the first time Tom took her out. They probably did just have some burgers and conversation. Maybe they made out, it's hard to say. Heck, we don't know if they're lovers by the END of the episode, not for sure (though if they aren't I suspect they soon will be).

One thing is CERTAIN though ... they made VERY good impressions on each other on that outing.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

..

Why on Earth would you say that? After all, she's a singer-- "Old MacDonald had a farm..." ..

For the record, I completely agree with you on this-- I suspect Jane is experienced and aggressive, but not to that degree.

I argue that this whole episode is basically a contrast between Daria/Trent and Jane/Tom-- its not a coincidence that both couples leave for car rides or that Tom walks out the same door in the middle of the episode that Trent walks out of at the end. (you'd go after him if I wasn't here, wouldn't you?-- Jane is very confused by that question-- Daria, though she doesn't realize it, is not talking about Jane)

And at the end, Daria has figured out a reason not to be with Trent while Jane is just enjoying being with Tom.

Daria watches Trent walk out and goes to sit with Jane.

Actually, whether or not Jane is or has been sexually active is not a moot point. If she has been sexually active, even a little, then she has a better idea how to handle guys then if she were totally innocent and clueless. A large part of Daria's fear is from her own inexperience ( and then think of the males she has had contact with... Beavis, Buthead, UpChuck, etc.). Daria's reaction was also because of her relatively sheltered upbringing. Jane, on the other hand, has not had the kind of support that Daria and Quinn have always been able to count on from their parents. Jane has had Trent, and I'm sue Trent did look out for Janey when she was younger but he would have felt a better protection would be to show her how to deal with guys, how to protect herself. It would not surprise me to learn that Jane knows self-defence and that she carries some kind of a weapon... at least mace or pepper-spray. If Trent says that Janey can take care of herself, then she can. Trent would never let Jane come to harm. And lets give Jane some credit for being a very intelligent girl. Her whole initial encounter with Tom in the club was her testing him. She even commented on his honesty. She's probably been coming to clubs with Trent for many years and can probably spot a real weirdo easily.

Yes, getting into a car with a stranger is extremely dangerous in the real world but Lawndale is a fictional world. And it's a small town. But consider this, statistically-speaking, most murders, rapes, and abductions happen with/by someone you know. I think most of the Daria viewers are old enough to recognize the danger.

Marie

"Writers aren't exactly people, they're a whole lot of people trying to be one person." -F. Scott Fitzgerald

"Poetry is not a profession, it's a destiny." -Mikhail Dudan

Marie Ross, whom I may have taken a car trip with at some time, said:

(spoilers for Jane's Addition)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

You're probably right, though I've known girls who were sexually active and had no idea how to handle guys, with the sexual activity being the RESULT of their having no idea how to handle guys. Jane, I'd say, is in between ... she's highly intelligent and observant, so she would probably have drawn the appropriate conclusions. On the other hand, she really does NOT excel at dealing with people in general.

To some extent. Plus, she's modelling her behavior on her mother's, and Jane is her only really good friend. So she's very protective of her.

Heh ... good point. (Though I don't think that Upchuck is truly dangerous).

Yes. And Jane misses not having had it ... there's an early episode in which Daria comments to Jane how "wonderful" it must be not having to account for one's movements to one's parents, and Jane gets a really sad look and says, flatly, "yeah, wonderful".

That's true. For one thing, he would have been aware that he couldn't always be there for her. For another thing, his whole philosophy would have mandated against direct intervention in her life as much as possible.

Would make sense.

Very true.

Ooh ... very good point there. You're right, it would be rather out of character for someone who acted as he did on first encounter to attempt a date-rape or worse.

That's also true ... and a form of "experience" even more important in that regard than the sexual.

That's also true. It would be a LOT more dangerous, if, for example, she'd met someone in a New York club.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Thomas Fitzgerald Van Horne said:

(spoliers for "Jane's Addition")
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

Actually, I was talking about what DARIA would be worrying about in connection with Jane.

You could be right. Or half-right. Jane may be sexually experienced (well, at least by Daria's standards) but I really do NOT see her as being as able to take care of herself as she or her brother think. Jane's lived a sheltered sort of life by big city standards ... the rough side of Lawndale is very tame by comparison witth the even the tame side of many urban neigborhoods. And getting into a random stranger's car like that was STUPID, plain and simple.

Though Michelle Klein-Hass would basically agree with you.

True. OTOH there's very little evidence that Jane actually is sexually active ... aside from her earlier interest in Jesse this is the first time we've ever seen her actually having a boyfriend.

Oh, massively so. Jane wants love and approval and has no idea how to get it. Daria's her first friend; as far as we know Tom is her first real boyfriend. If she's slept around before this, that only HIGHLIGHTS the point ... girls who can only get a guy's (temporary) attention by giving them full sex without gaining even the most trivial committment are generally the MOST insecure ones.

She's socially unskilled. Maybe "naive" is the wrong term for what I mean.

I will point out that Jane has lived in Lawndale all her life, and at the time she meets Jane has no friends, and has never been invited to a party (even though she'd like to be). Daria is there less than a month, makes friends with Jane, gets on Brittany's good side, and gets invited to a party (even though she isn't into that sort of thing). Who is more charismatic? Or socially competent?

If Jane is behaving as you claim, that's a lot less healthy, safe, or good for her own sanity than Daria having a crush on Trent. Daria's crush doesn't hurt her.

Well ... keep in mind that before Jane met Daria she had no friends and tended to meet only Trent's friends. That would sort of limit her opportunities to have affairs, so unless she is literally just having sex with random guys she meets (which is a pretty sad image), I rather think that if her love life has consisted of anything beyond a brief interest in Jesse and this new involvement with Tom, it's been pathetic and sleazy.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 21 Aug 1999 01:24:14 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

I get the impression that Jane lives for her art (many artists do). I believe that Jane is obsessed with her art. Before Daria came into her life, she got up in the morning, went to school, went home and buried herself in artwork till sleeping-time. The same rhythm for all those years. MSB (who knows better than anyone else about that kind of obsession)

Matthias Benkmann said:

Yes. I could see that. Which wouldn't leave much time for random sex. Or friendship, either.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

I am not ignoring your post, my newsreader has blown up 3 times while I was trying to compose a response-- it apparently doesn't like the editing characters when I copy large amounts of text which I want to do to group my response to several things you say. More to come when I get the stupid thing to work right.

I have to agree. This was the one thing that bothered me about this episode. Two words to Jane Lane: *TED BUNDY*.

And then she compounds the stupidity by getting into a *Pinto* -- well, 'nuff said.

Cricket

In article ,

with a

episode.

The "Pinto" as well as the much malingered "Gremlin" were both fine American made automobiles. My Aunt drove her Gremlin cross country, and said it was the best for getting through heavy snow (because it was so light, she could go over the snow w/out getting stuck) and my dad drove a Pinto for many years and many miles (the best thing was he tore the passenger seat out, so I could sit in the back on the passenger side and actually have enough leg room.

The Pinto MIGHT have been a fine American automobile, if its gas tank didn't have a tendency to rupture in low-impact crashes. That problem could have been prevented with a simple, inexpensive casing around the gas tank. But Ford decided to nix it. Why? Because Ford's goal was to put out a compact to mid-size car that cost the consumer less than $3000 in the 1970's. The Pinto came in at $2,999. Putting the protective casing around the gas tank would have added a whopping ELEVEN DOLLARS MORE to the sticker price. Ford could have (a) added the $11 to the sticker price, sending the cost above $3,000, or (b) absorbed the $11 and let the buyer just pay the $2999 (plus tax & title & whatever). However, Ford decided to do neither. When confronted by engineers about the potential safety risks, the powers-that-be decided it would be cheaper to pay off potential law suits than spend the extra $11 per car to make it safer. AYPK, this turned out to be a very bad decision on Ford's part. What they may have saved in money wound up costing them in reputation and public trust (and lost sales) for over a decade. (BTW, I got most of this info from reading the court documents from a class-action suit against Ford while I was in law school.) [And now, Ford appears to have similar exploding tank problems with classic Mustangs. SIGH --I had always wanted to inherit my dad's '67 blue 'Stang.]

You rode around in a Pinto, & my family drove around in a Mustang. I guess we should both consider ourselves damn lucky to be alive and unburned.

Chirping (and ranting) the afternoon away (BTW, this is probably the first time I've posted while the sun was still overhead!),

Cricket

In article , [email] (Cricket) wrote:

problems

There are ways of reinforcing the rear end of classic Mustangs to make them safer. If you are inheriting a 'Stang and probably considering doing restoration work on it this is not hard to do.

In my Fanfic universe Trent now rides around in a perfectly restored Boss 1969 'Stang painted dark blue metal flake. It's his baby...nobody drives it but him.

'Stangs are damn cool cars. Don't turn your nose up at one if you get one.

--.\\<-H--

Nicole Lee wrote:

< big snip>

Finally! A *decent* male character. Thanks, Glenn. By the second commercial break, I was thinking "I sure hope they keep this guy." And I was worried, because it'd be so much easier to resolve him out of the picture. And the easiest way to do that would be to impart to him that universal characteristic of Daria's world: to be male is to be a stereotype. So now, at last, the mold is put aside. Figuris terminum! Well, just this once.

I was impressed by her strength of character in admitting that. Especially in admitting it to someone else.

Again, Jane appears as the strongest character in the show. I *still* want to see what her vulnerability is.

I'll avoid the whole 'shipper thing for now. Suffice to say that I think Glenn showed a good deal of wisdom in following the course he took on this ep.

Peace Kevin

Kevin said:

Yep. Tom is decent.

I wouldn't really call Mack a stereotype, but Daria doesn't interact with him much. Remember, the show focuses very tightly on Daria and the people she knows well.

Daria's a strong, intelligent, and decent girl ... she eventually realized how childishly she'd been acting.

Recklessness, I would think.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Nicole Lee, the gracious Lady Kender, said:

I was afraid at points that Daria really WOULD lose Jane as a friend, or conversely that she would wind up driving Tom off and losing a lot of Jane's trust and respect in the process.

I wasn't. But I was sad when he failed to transcend his limitations, especially because this was really important.

The problem with Trent was that he really didn't understand the importance of the deadline. He was so fixated on his own version of perfectionism that he lost sight of the reason he was SUPPOSED to be doing it.

Sadly, this may have been because he cared too MUCH, rather than too little.

Which (understandably) scares and saddens Daria. How can she give her heart to someone who just might misplace it?

That's a very good point, Nicole. They would have had to have had a conversation like that anyway, at some point, or any love between them would have been surely doomed. And probably doomed in a way far more destructive to them, and to their friendship, than what actually happened.

And friendship is a necessary component of real love.

You're right.

Yes. Notice that Daria's circle of friends has now effectively tripled, because she's talking to Trent like a fellow human being, and by the end of the episode she WAS treating Tom as a friend, even though she didn't want to admit it.

Not a bad outcome from her point of view.

Again ... as I've said before ... Daria's an admirable and decent girl, but she's no plaster saint. And this episode really proved it.

I agree.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Spoiler Space

Daria and Tom had enough in common that I kept expecting Tom to suddenly start hitting on her! I mean this is one twisted little town so I kept waiting for the twistedness to start. I guess all those years of watching soaps is finally catching up on me...

How can Trent trust his heart to an inexperienced (romantically, that is), inlittle girl? They both need to take a leap of faith... That's what love is ultimately about... Putting your trust and faith in another person who, because you love them, has the power to hurt you. If your love is strong enough, you take the chance ... if it's not, you don't.

Marie

"Its simple really, very clear, like music floating in the air; invisible yet everywhere." -The Nightmare Before Christmas

Marie Ross said:

waiting for

A Daria-Tom romance wouldn't surprise me, if Tom broke up with Jane. Their personalities are similar. In my opinion, a lot of the things Jane likes about Tom are elements which are also found in Daria's personality.

Very welll said.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

No! No! No! The first Rule Of Girlfriends is that you never, ever date your girlfriend's ex-boyfriend. (The two exceptions to this rule are if you're just pretending to be a friend or if you're the type of people who would go on Rikki Lake).

Marie

"Its simple really, very clear, like music floating in the air; invisible yet everywhere." -The Nightmare Before Christmas

On 26 Aug 1999 04:46:50 GMT, [email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

<snip insightful comments>

I'm starting to foresee many a fanfic with this twisted love triangle... I'm just hoping that the writers won't fall for this really obvious plot. Or maybe.. *gulp*.. they will.

Amen. One of the reasons I've remained with my boyfriend for so long (close to 2 years now) even though we've spent a lot of time apart, was because of the amount of faith and trust we have in each other. The probability of being hurt is high, but if you don't take the chance, well, then the love isn't strong enough yet.

Daria and Trent have some serious "growing" to do in the relationship department, and I don't just mean Trent developing more responsibility. It requires a lot more road trips, flea market conversations, and pizza place discussions. The anti-shipper part of me says that that's just a crazy idea, since Trent seems unlikely to change. The softer side of me says that well, ya just never know.

Good point, Marie, very well said.

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

As punishment, you must read "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man," and write a 5 page paper on it.

I know this'll be my second "Seinfeld" ref tonight, but I'm reminded of the ep where Jerry met the woman of his dreams, played by Janeane Garofalo-- she was a female Jerry. Naturally, this similarity to himself suddenly made her exteremly unattractive to him. I'd see something similar with Daria and Tom-- they'll probably become friends, seeing as they have a similar sarcastic and cynical wit, but both strike me as very strong personalities that wouldn't mesh well in anything other than a good friendship.

Hm. I still get the feeling that we're all reading *way* too much into this. There never was a relationship between the two of them. They never even went out on a "date." (I know, I know, that's not a requirement to start a relationship, but still....) It seems to me that that little talk between the two characters can be interpreted any of a bajillion ways, depending on what you WANT to have happen to the two of them in season four.

I just have this image of Glenn Eichler & Co. reading all of this speculation and chuckling evilly to themselves, "It worked! We managed to find a way to keep them occupied till February just by using a few lines that sound relationship-y and adding a kiss! Muahaha! Now our plans can continue in uninterrupted silence, because now those meddling kids will be too busy arguing over facts not in evidence to turn their high IQs to detecting our plot to take over the WORLD!! Muahaha!"

I must also add that all of this also reminds me of the recently-cancelled "Caroline in the City," a show that took a cute preimise with a light-romantic interest angle, and drove it into the ground, making the show utterly unwatchable in its final season. What should've been resolved in 2 seasons, max, was never resolved realistically and ended rather horribly. Blecch. It was worse than watching a train plowing into a semi full of fluffy little bunnies. The writers tried too hard to prolong the romantic tension unrealistically, with disastrous consequences. And I know that Glenn & Co. are trying like hell to avoid such a mess, as would any writer that likes to eat. ;-) Ah, such a tricky line to walk.... keep the show fresh and interesting, while also keeping the charming elements of the show intact. If you're not careful, those bunnies'll get it again. If you're too careful, those bunnies'll get it again, too.

just repeat to yourself it's just a show, i should really just relax... rich, lord of the bunnies.

Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.

On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:08:28 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

Good friendship is the foundation of a lasting relationship.

I don't think people like Daria see love as a game of chance. MSB

Paperpusher said:

True, but it ultimately is, from the perspective of one's limited knowledge. You don't know if the one you choose to love will betray you, or if events will conspire to tear you apart. And in the end, Death ends all ties.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote:

Now let's all thank Jordan for the Uplifting and Charming Thought of the Day(tm).

;-)

--Jess.

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

correction: Matthias said this, not I...

Hmm... well, I don't know about that. I believe that some people subconsciously choose people that they know will cheat on them, merely because they aren't ready for a sincere and lasting relationship, or they feel that by dating a cheater, it somehow reinforces a poor self-image. Then again, that's only a theory.

The other theory I've heard is that humans have a basic biological interest to cheat. Men have an interest in cheating because it allows them to spread their genetic material over a greater portion of the population (and thereby increase their feeling of power), whereas women have a biological interest in cheating because while one mate can meet the needs of her young, who need an economic (in industrialized societies) protector, they also have emotional needs that aren't always met by that protector. This is one of Desmond Morris' theories, BTW-- it's actually a very interesting proposition. One of the pieces of evidence he offers is the recently discovered presence of "killer sperm"-- sperm who serve only one function-- prevent the sperm of other males from fertilizing the egg.

But I digress. ;-)

Even so, 'tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

rich.

"Joseph Stalin, grab my armored muu-muu and together we will leave this foul Earth behind." -- Toon-La.

On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:15:19 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

My position is: It doesn't matter if there are such instincts. We have a rational mind. Unless you are under the influence of drugs, this rational mind should be stronger than your instincts. I know that mine is. Cheating doesn't "just happen". You have to exchange at least a few words then go to a room and undress before having sex. That's a lot of time to think. No one can tell me that he does all this in a trance-like state, spouse completely forgotten. It's not like "Oops, now that the sex is over I suddenly remember that I'm married." Cheating is something you do on purpose. You decide "Now I will cheat on my wife/husband." Maybe you disguise it in other words, lying to yourself, to make it sound less mean but you have to make this decision consciously at some point unless you have the primitive mind of an animal.

To sum it up: If you make the conscious decision to cheat, you are a beast and if you cheat without making that decision, you are a beast, too.

No matter how you twist and turn it. Cheaters are animals. If you are not satisified with your sex life, talk about it with your partner. It may be easier to just cheat on him/her than working out a solution to your problems, but it's the wrong way. You don't dump toxic waste in the ocean just because it's easy.

MSB

So anyone who is in denial about anything has the primative mind of an animal? I agree on everything up until the last sentence, but i wouldn't say that you have to be stupid or evil to lie to yourself.

I don't believe the problem is always as obvious as this. and not everyone has good enough communication with their partner to be able to talk about it. Some people don't see talking about stuff as a good solution to problems, either.

it is the wrong way, yes, but the ability to see the *right way* is not ingrained in all humans.

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:43:11 +0100, "endless, nameless" wrote:

I don't say all animals are stupid or evil.

In that case your relationship has already ended and you're just reluctant to admit it. MSB

good good :)

mine is fine, fwiw. ;)

Just about every human animal on this earth practices denial in some form, whether they realize it or not. It starts when we're children and snowballs as we grow older. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just stating a fact as I see it... Denial is... necessary to retain our sanity.

In other words, In Denial? :)

Marie

"We are never deceived; we deceive ourselves." -Goethe

"Frank and explicit - this is the right line to take when you wish to conceal your own mind and to confuse the the mind of others." -Benjamin Disraeli

This is so true...I have seen it happen over and over again. Luckily though, higher levels of maturity often break the pattern.

I've heard of this before the "killer sperm" idea works like this... the first sperm there (supposedly, the husband's) guard the fortress against intruders (any other men). But they do not merely defend, though this is their main purpose, but they also attack any "foreign" sperm to try to insure that the Defending sperms will have the best chance at fertilization.

So I guess the seeds of mankind really are steeped in violence and war...

Then again, if you've never loved, then you don't really know what you're missing...

Marie

"I used to love her, but I had to kill her... She bitched so much, she drove me nuts, and I can still hear her complain..." -Guns N Roses

but each man kills the thing he loves.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Marie quoted:

Women are quite capable, as well... Or were you refering to humans in general? :)

Marie

"As a matter of biology, if something bites you it is probably female." -Scott M. Kruse

I guess in general. It's not really my line, it's Oscar Wilde's.

What fun is that???

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Dagny Scott said:

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

Yuck. LOL. Only someone like you could take me out of the severe doldrums I've just been put into after reading most of the above thread and thinking just how unattractively average I am. Thanks, I needed that.

Diane

Diane said:

Aw ... I think you're pretty cool :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Marie Ross said:

first

Hey, there's a wargame concept nobody's done :)

<groan>

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

<groan> Like I couldn't see that comment coming? :)

Yeah, okay, so I guess my humor's not as sophisticated as yours...

Marie

"The natural man has only two primal passions - to get and beget." -William Osler

MSB said:>>I don't think people like Daria see love as a game of chance.

Or frees you from those who keep you bound...

Marie

"There is one thing a man can always do, if he chooses, and that is his duty..." -Emma

Spoiler Space

Yes and no... In real life, I think the tendency is for people with too in common to stay and/or become just friends (of course this isn't a hard and fast rule, there are always exceptions). Better to have somone who's strengths buttress your weaknesses and visa versa. You need to be able to learn and grow from and with each other.

I didn't mean to imply that love is a game of chance... Only that one needs to take a chance somewhere if they are to find a love worth having. If you just sit around and wait for love to come knocking, you'll probably be waiting for a long time... Wow, I suddenly have an urge to go read so Emily Dickinson...

Marie

"Nothing is so simple that it cannot be misunderstood." -Freeman Teague, Jr.

"The little I know, I owe to my ignorance." -Sacha Guitry

Paperpusher said:

I don't think the tone of that last conversation was accidental.

I've only gone out on a couple of formal dates, and none of them were with any of the girls I've had serious relationships with.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Actually, I wrote a brilliant 20 page research paper, in Seminar I, on the language Joyce used in that exact book... Believe me, I earned that A. By the end of the semester I could recite huge chunks of passages, from the book, by heart.

I don't know about anyone else, but in lieu of being able to watch new episodes, I enjoy just considering the possibilities. I do that endlessly about everything, anyway. Thinking about the endless possibilities in real life isn't too much fun because death and other things I don't really want to dwell on have a way of sneaking in. Here's an example: Start with a basic premise... "Today I will walk to the park." Ok, simple, right, but wait, here I go considering the possibilities again... "I'm walking to the park and it's sunny, the birds are singing, children are riding thier bikes in the street. Oh, look, that kid's not wearing a helmet. He really should or he could get hurt (happened to a friend when I was small). What's that noise? Why it's a 350 block engine which needs a new muffler. That driver of that loud, black car must be stoned or something the way he's driving. It almost looks like he's trying to run down those kids (how many points is it for a kid on a bike?) Oh no, he's zeroing in on the kid without the helmet. Do I really want to see this? The last thing I see before I look away is the car's bumper sticker, 'High Toned Son Of A Bitch,' but I can still hear the sounds of the carnage... I think I'll stay inside, sitting in front of my computer... it's much safer... Wait, what are those noises? Why it sounds as if there is something behind the very walls..." See, much safer to debate on the love lives, or lack of love lives of the Lawndale residents. And no, I don't think I've read too much Stephen King... but just don't get me started on vampires...

Seriously though, I kinda thought one of the reasons for ATD was for these types of topics and conversations (Daria-related, that is) Of course, I'm pretty new to posting here, so I could be wrong.

Wish I was a kid still. And would the world be so much worse off if Glenn Eichler & Co. were running it instead of some of the boobs who run things now?

This is how I relax, posting to ATD, certainly ain't my day job. :) One of the reasons I chose to start posting to this group ( I know, what'd you all do to deserve that? Must've been really bad in your past lives) was because after reading a few thousand posts here, I had gotten the impression that this was a mostly fun group... that and the fact that Jordan kept telling me what a great group this was, how much I would enjoy it here, how well I would fit in. I don't know about anyone else who posts on this topic, but I am a writer ( not successful yet, but still a writer) and I excel and love characterization. I could talk for hours about characters I don't like and think are flat. Now the one's I like...

Bunnies make good eating... :)

Marie

"You know I've been to the edge, and there I stood and looked down..." -Van Halen

"And I see lonely ships upon the water, better save the women and cheldren first." -Van Halen "Nothing is so simple that it cannot be misunderstood." -Freeman Teague, Jr.

"The little I know, I owe to my ignorance." -Sacha Guitry

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

Okay, you've already done your penance, so I won't make you read Faulkner as a make-up punishment. (Sorry, but Joyce and Faulkner are two of my *least* favorite writers. I prefer writers who are interested in telling a story. Joyce and Faulkner make my teeth ache. Right now I'm rereading "Heart of Darkness," and loving it. Just my opinion.) You know what's really funny? I've managed to block most of my memories of writing Lit papers. I wonder why...

You think too much. ;-) Although I can't really talk, as I sometimes "what if?" myself to death as well. I've been trying to cut down now, but I'm still going to have to get hurricane supplies-- sometimes "what if" is a pretty reasonable question.

But as for other stuff, I figure if it happens, it just happens. As Trent mentioned in the episode, "Sometimes you've just gotta take what you can get." Not a bad philosophy, sometimes.

No, you're right, you're right. I just like throwing these sorts of grenades out there-- especially when it seems like the group opinion is going to settle-- it adds to the fun. ;-) (And, yes, my favorite punctuation mark is the em dash. No, I don't know why.) I try to keep in mind that many of the newer posters haven't seen the thousands and thousands of posts attempting to dissect the Trent/Daria relationship. (And it's been so thoroughly dissected that sometimes I think it sucks the fun out of watching the show for me.) So, I'll try to keep in mind that everyone deserves a chance to weigh in. I'm just a bit of a sarcastic and cynical guy, who believes that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and not an underlying metaphor for a character's inability to relate to his feminine side. I think part of that comes as a reaction to all of the overanalysis of literature I did in college, and all of the overanalysis of law I did in law school (and in real life).

All I'm saying is that that final scene really can't be interpreted correctly til season four-- there's insufficient context to come to a final decision-- it could go any of a thousand ways from there. But I won't ruin your fun in speculating. ;-) (See, Sarra-- those emoticons *do* come in handy every now and then.) I'm just weighing in with my opinion, which is, "We won't know what it means until either Glenn tells us, or until further exposition of the storyline gives us sufficient context to see who understood what. But if I was a betting man, I'd bet that this opens up a number of possibilities to start a relationship between the two. It just makes more sense that way-- each has something that the other desperately needs to help them grow as characters."

Hm... interesting idea, but I think I'd rather have them producing high-quality programming than trying to administer Social Security. ;-) The "meddling kids" was a ref to one of my favorite cartoons growing up-- Scooby-Doo. (Old school Scooby, though-- not the stuff without Daphne and Fred and Velma-- the newer Scoobys were terrible. And don't even get me started on Scrappy. *Shudder*)

We are a fun group-- a fun group who like a nice friendly debate every now and then. And sometimes we even manage to stay on-topic. ;-)

Personally, I like to write, but I prefer story to character, m'self. (Probably because my characterization could use a little work, and I hate work.) Stories? I got a ton of 'em. My one weakness? I can never come up with character names that I like. :P

Tastes just like chicken. ;-)

Which reminds me of a story about a law student who used to catch the squirrels on campus with a lacrosse stick, kill em, skin em, then stuff em in the dorm freezer until he was ready to make stew out of em. From what I understand, the screams heard when someone discovered his new source of protein were rather loud and penetrating. (Using plastic wrap wasn't a very good idea, apparently.) Coming from the mountains, he couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, but he agreed to eat at the cafeteria and stop using the campus as his personal game preserve.

rich. (Who's heard that squirrel makes tough eatin', unless you let it simmer in a Brunswick Stew for a day or two.)

Jane: All I want is to make beautiful things!

I like Faulkner, so that wouldn't be much of a punishment, anyway... A real punishment for someone would be to make them read Chaucer with out a translation... I still have nightmares about that. I haven't read "Heart of Darkness" yet but I've heard how good it is. I read lit in fits... I OD on the "classics," then I fill my mind with Horror or SF or Fantasy for several months, then I start all over again... It's a vicious cycle, I know... I have mixed memories of writing Lit papers... Of course I always waited until the day before (or a few days before for long papers) to start so there was always a lot of pressure but I managed to pull A's almost everytime, so that kind of made up for the stress. I often wish I was more disciplined but life is a little more exciting this way...

You're absolutely right, I do think too much... but I can't remember being any other way... When I was younger, I always used to consider all the possibilities but expect the worst. My theory (an old one) was that if I expected the worst, then I would never be disappointed. It didn't work too well... with such low expectatins, I was terribly sad (and have reams of bad poetry to prove it) and I could never really abandon all hope anyway... no matter how hard I tried. Does this mean I'm a hopeless optimist deep inside? Now, I still consider all possibilities (even the worst ones) but I try to refrain from expecting any one thing from happening and make provisions for all the possibilities. This is something I use well when I write so I can't complain about it... for me, it's a useful way of thinking.

As for preparing for the hurricane... well, that just shows you have common sense.

I agree, as long as you don't stop striving for your dream, whatever it is. Once you (not you, personally, of course) give that up, you might as well be six feet under.

Ooh, something we have in common! I like doing that too. On the boards and in real life. Isn't it fun to try to rattle people's cages sometimes? Just for their reaction? Try to make people think when thry really don't want to? Of course, sometimes, I'm the one who gets rattled but that's cool, it means I haven't stopped being able to change and grow. I love to hear different viewpoints and opinions and argue my own, just for the fun of it...

I'm confused, aren't the most interesting people sarcastic and cynical... or is this secretly the alt.tv.MrRogers newsgroup? ;)

Ok, how about me for President, then... Oh no, look out we've entered another time and dimension and things are definately not what they seem...

And for the record, I think that the elderly should be taken care of by their (<shudder> radical idea) children and believe that extended families were a good thing and their general demise has contributted greatly to to state we find this counttry in... I'll get off my high horse now...

Well, story is very important, too. But without interesting characters, the story usually falls flat. See, now I have a problem with writing stories... almost everytime I start a story, it becomes a full-fledged novel-lenth piece. I always fall in love with my characters and get lost in their stories... I'm not sure who's creating who sometimes...

Try asking the characters... ;)

Marie

"I'll wager you know just as many meloncholy tunes as Miss Marianne..." -Sense and Sensibility

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

Oh, well, I guess lit-wise I'm your polar opposite-- I loved Chaucer. Then again, it might've had something to do with my professor-- the man is a genius. (And a heck of a nice guy, too. We still go out for beers every now and then.) He really turned me on to Old and Early Middle English Lit. One of my favorite stories from the period has to be "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight." And, of course, who can forget the opening lines of Beowulf in the original OE... I can speak it, but if I typed it, I'd mangle it. Oh, well.

As for modern lit, I'm a big Hemingway and Vonnegut fan. Yeah, Hemingway was a bit of a bastard, but I like his pacing. Vonnegut just leaves me in stitches. I also like Steinbeck, too.

Yes, very vicious. One of my other lit profs always said that everyone should have a "guilty pleasure" genre to read to relax. SF/Fantasy is my mental popcorn, too.

Guilty as charged as well. I never got inspired without some adrenaline at about 2AM... oh, hello again Mr. Sun!

Hm... it might, it might... I have to admit to being a bit of an optimist as well, but I keep it in check with a healthy dose of realism. I had a similar theory about expecting the worst, but now I save it for special occasions. ;-) Fortunately, though, I didn't have any bad poetry to document my "inner torment." And even if I wrote any, it's long gone now. I always preferred to play out my frustrations on whichever musical instrument I was playing at the time.

Yeah, but fortunately it looks like we'll only get a glancing blow. It should pass to the east of us. *Whew*! Now I can put those canned peaches back in the hurricane box.

Yeah, but sometimes the answer to your question is standing right in front of you, and you keep looking around that answer for a better answer. Meanwhile, if you'd had any sense, you would've taken hold of the opportunity right in front of you, rather than let it get away. (Not you, personally, either.) It's not a question of settling, it's a question of following your bliss, I guess.

Well, yeah, that too. :)

(Hides his sweater.) No no no no no! What would make you think that we're Mr. Rogers fans? (Meow meow meow meow!) Quiet, Henrietta Pussycat! You'll give us away again! Picture picture, keep her quiet! Show some more films of yarn! Anyway, we're all nice and sarcastic and cynical here! What's that, King Friday? No, I haven't heard from Mr. McFeely. Anyway, nobody here but us cynics.

<snip for space>

I always get lost in the details of a story. I just need to spend more time with my characters, I guess.

Hm... sounds intriguing, and also somewhat frightening. What the hell, I'll give it a shot. ;-)

rich.

Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.

Yes, I'd say... I was going to mention "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" along with Chaucer but I was too tired (in other words, too lazy). We had to get through that one without any translations... at least "The Canterbury Tales" were bawdy... I did like "Beowulf," however. I liked the story but even more, I liked the immortality of it... which, now with the internet, is pretty much guaranteed... what writer doesn't wish for immortality through their words?

Hemingway was good, though I liked his inventive, risk-taking style more than the actual stories which I always found to be a little flat. Vonnegut I like but haven't read for years. If I read anything by Steinbeck, I don't remember it off-hand. My favorite all-time writer is Jane Austen but that doesn't include poetry, which is my true love...

Glad to hear it!

I've never been very down-to-earth in this regard, I've always looked to the future (and yes, I miss alot of things around me while doing so). Sense is a subjective thing, though... easier to see in retrospect, I think. Looking back, I can see many missed opportunities but if I had chosen them, I would not be on this path now, and even though this path may be somewhat rough and under-tended, I like the view better. :) Bliss? I've heard of this concept... It's some new, new-age thing, right?

<shudders> I've never liked Mr Rogers, even as a kid, I thought he was a dweeb(sorry to any Mr Roger fans)... I have a theory about Mr Rogers, Barney, and The Teletubbies...

Just don't be too surprised when you get answers... ;)

Marie

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

As did we. Part of the fun, n'est-ce pas? ;-)

Well, having been an attorney for a few years, I can tell you that a LOT of people wish that their words and memos could be forgotten. ;-)

I liked some of Austen, although it's been a while. Now one of my all-time favorite poets has to be Wilfred Owen. I was so happy when I found a book of his works a few weeks ago. Then again, one of my favorite poems has to be Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress" :

... Now let us sport while we may, And now, like amorous birds of prey, Rather at once our time devour Than languish in his slow-chapped power. Let us roll all our strength and all Our sweetness up into one ball, And tear our pleasures with rough strife Through the iron gates of life: Thus, though we cannot make our sun Stand still, yet we will make him run.

I always try to keep that in mind.

Yeah, just some wind and rain. Anooying, but minimal as far as hurricanes go.

Actually, it's a very old Zen concept. It's the idea of doing what you enjoy doing, but not as simple as that... it's sort of like the idea of finding your happiness where you are, doing what you enjoy doing, of living in the moment. Grab a good book on Zen, and you'll get a much better explanation. :)

Aw, now, I loved the trolley and that traffic light. The rest of it I pretty much ignored, but the trolley was cool!

Startled would be more like it. ;-)

rich.

Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!

Definately not, I had more much more fun learning to take a carburator in auto class in high school... Of course, I was the only girl... ;)

Not me, I keep everything... even the stuff that makes me look stupid... Ever since I was a small child I've planned on being famous one day and since I never claimed to be anything other than human, I don't mind admitting to my mistakes... Of course, this completely ruins my chances in politics... Oh well, I'm too honest for that anyway... :)

<snip>

Carpe Diem! Yes, it is an awesome poem and a classic. I can't think of any Wilfred Owens poems but the name is familiar to me. Some of my favorite poets are John Keats, Robert Frost, Ezra Pound, William Carlos Williams (a fellow New Jerseyite!), Emily Dickenson, Shakespeare-- of course, and so many, many more... My favorite poem of all times though, has to be Jaberwocky... It is a true work of art!

I have read a bit on Zen and other eastern philosophies... I find some of them fascinating... But I was thinking more about the western concept of bliss... you know, this all-encompassing total blissful type of happiness... Which, frankly, I'm skeptical about, I imaging it would be pretty overwheming and more emotion than I'd want to feel at one moment, thank you very much. I lkike this Zen concept of it, I'll have to look into it some more.

Spoken like a guy! :)

Marie

"Destiny is what you are supposed to do in life. Fate is what kicks you in the ass to make you do it." -Henry Miller

Take a carburator apart, that is...

And I provided an example...

Marie (How can I, er, save the world if no one wants to hear my theories? No Pinky, stay away from that!)

"I quote others in order to better express my own self." -Montaigne

Marie Ross said:

You NEVER look stupid, Marie.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

Ah, see I was an arty type in HS-- you name it, I did it. I even skipped lunch so I could do choir on top of band and music theory.

Well, let's just say that not everyone who sues you is honest, and leave it at that. (Full discovery is a Good Thing in theory, until, of course, it's practiced on you, and someone who doesn't like you can look at pretty much anything you're written.)

That said, my parents still tease me about how I used to save every scrap of paper I produced in school. They always joke about my "presidential library." Please, I prefer "Imperial library." ;-)

Wilfred Owen-- WWI poet whose life was cut short just a week before the Armistice in 1918. He did all of his major works in a year. He's best known for "Anthem for a Doomed Youth," "Dulce et Decorum Est," and "S.I.W." What's great about his work is that he was there-- there's no speculation about the horror of war on his part, it's all about his personal experience. Here's "Dulce et Decorum Est"

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs, And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots, But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time, But someone was yelling out and stumbling And floundering like a man in fire or lime. -- Dim through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongue,-- My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children aredent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.*

*Rough Translation: It is sweet and good to die for one's country.

Jabberwocky is a cool poem-- I haven't read that one in a while. Shakespeare's sonnets are very nice as well.

I'm not familiar with the western concept of bliss, except, perhaps, being blissfully ignorant. ;-) I prefer the Zen concept myself. Less pressure that way.

Guilty as charged. I will agree that Barney and the Teletubbies are evil. Evil evil evil! Eeeee-vil! Isn't that right, Hecubus? ;-)

rich.

"Absolute certainty is stasis, boring. We need uncertainty -- it's the only way to go." -- Dr. Leon Lederman, physicist.

I don't think I was any type in HS... In the younger grades, I tried so hard to fit in but just never was accepted, that by HS I went in the complete opposite direction... I tried to be different from everyone else... I wore crazy clothes that no one else would (I actually turned out to be a visionary in that way), I partied a lot, I cut classes a lot, I had no problem with sleeping in class or taking an extra lunch period or two (my favorite teachers btw, were the ones who didn't let me get away with anything), I also thought homework was optional, yet I managed to maintain a B average with some As and C's occasionally. A couple of teachers wanted to put me in honors classes but I flat-out refused... I thought of school as a necessary evil, yet I was college prep and always intended on going to college. I quit school two months before graduation (for a guy, of course) but still managed to start college several months later. I was comepletely not an average student... come to think of it, I take it as an insult when anyone calls me average... not that too many people do... ;)

Oh, I'm well aware of that, but believe me, there's enough people who would be willing to talk about my past that I believe it's a pretty moot point. Besides, If I do achieve fame, I'd rather have my honest first-hand accounts for things, then other people's embellished memories... (Sylvia Plath made me realize that). I'm a very honest person, other wise I'd create a much more interesting past where I didn't make so many mistakes. ;)

Wow, I never even told my parents... it would have just been ammunition... as a matter of fact, I used to keep my diary in code...

Ah yes, of course I know "Dulce et Decorum Est," it's a great poem and I believe most English prof. consider it required reading... This is, of course, what I meant about acheiving immortality through words... Even though he's dead, his words will live on... My favorite war poem has got to be "The Death Of The Ball Turrent Gunner." Here it is:

Marie Ross said:

Why'd you refuse that?

I've thought of many descriptive terms in connection with you, Marie, but "average" was never one of them.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

I refused because I did not want to spend a minute more in school than I had to... I cut classes as often as each teacher would let me get away with it, did only enough homework to get a passing grade for homework, and generally, did my best to avoid any extra work.... School was so easy for me... Algebra and Geometry were the only subjects I could not pull an A in if I tried... I didn't want any other challenges... I was not a good student... I did not live up to my potential... but believe me, I paid for that in college.

Thank you. Actually, come to think of it, I don't think anyone ever has... ;)

Marie

"I quote others in order to better express my own self." -Montaigne

MarieRoss wrote in message news:[email]...

I had

with it, did

generally, did my

and

I didn't

live up to

many

but

I didn't do well with algebra but geometry and trig were amazingly easy, the only good grades I made all through high school. Well, there was an A in chemistry but that must have been a fluke. (I guess I've bored everyone with this story--but not recently.;-) My high school senior English teacher was giving me straight Fs but I had no idea what I was doing wrong. She called me into her office and gave me the standard lecture about how I had one of the most brilliant minds she'd ever seen and I was wasting it--yada, yada, yada--you know, the usual BS. I figured I wouldn't even be graduating. I never bothered applying to any colleges, though my dad insisted I go through the motions with the rest of it. Seemed pointless to me. I figured with my grades college was impossible. It would have been my ACT score that got me into college. My first-choice school that I'd listed on the ACT sent me an acceptance and offered AP English, (and AP Biology, which I had to turn down). AP English was neat. You get to skip English 101 and take a one-quarter (the school was on quarter system at the time) three-segment course in the spring. The package I chose was etymology, Appalachian literature, and creative writing. This was great! Not only were these teachers not idiots, they were some of the best instructors in the department. And, won't wonders never cease, I made straight As in the course. I joked it was the first A I'd ever seen in my life. Not quite true, it certainly was the first A I'd made in an English course. So I go from making almost straight Fs in high school to an AP English student receiving praise from instructors whom I could really respect. Well, >I< think it's interesting anyway. College work was so much easier than high school.

If only I could have maintained that pace. I coulda been somebody. I coulda been a contenda. But I got burned out on school at an early age. Once the fire went out it would have been almost impossible to relight it. I just never considered academic excellence to be a viable objective. It takes something more than a high IQ and a good memory to do well in school. I never figured out what that something was though and there was no one to explain it to me.

We read that and "Vale from Carthage" in College Writing-- although I think the rest of the class that wasn't used to Frau (hell, they called her Mrs. King, when everyone knows her name is Frau. Gee.) didn't get her explanation of the background of WW1 and earlier wars.

But those were two good poems.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

If you want background about WW1 from the other side of the front, I can give it to you. My grandfather was a sergeant in the German Army. I still have a letter opener he made out of a piece of shrapnel, and a few other bits and pieces of junk he picked up here and there. From the stories my grandmother told, due to the naval blockade things were only a little worse on the front than they were at home. (They didn't call cats "roof rabbits" for nothing.) It's amazing what went on there. Amazing, and sad, too. The saddest part is that we still haven't learned much from the lessons of WW1. I guess that they'll remember the 20th century as "The Bloody Century." You won't get much argument from me on that choice of words.

Ironic WW1 story-- my grandfather was in charge of a small squad that was ordered to reconnoiter a wooded area. While on his mission, he heard some voices speaking French. He told his men to hide in the bushes. They hid for 48 hours, until they heard German voices nearby, and then decided it was okay to crawl out of the bushes. He actually got a medal for his "courage." He always thought that that was funny-- he was just trying to stay alive for another 48 hours. He didn't even keep the medal as a souvenir after the war.

Oh, BTW, another great WW1 poet was Siegfried Sassoon. He actually encouraged Owen to write about his experiences while he was recuperating from Shellshock in Edinburgh. I don't have any of his stuff handy-- it's in the basement, and I feel lazy tonight. I will say this about both men-- they were great poets because they managed to give us just a hint of the real horrors of war, rather than trying to romanticize the senseless butchery of it and sugar-coat it with flowery language. I prefer poets who save the flowery language for l'amour, and not for the uglier things that humans do about as frequently.

rich.

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

MarieRoss wrote:

Hey now, I was raised on "Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood" (as well as "Sesame Street", "3-2-1 Contact", "The Voyage of the Mimi", and "Square One"...notice a trend here? hehehehe) and I think I turned out fairly decently. Come on, admit it, you secretly liked Lady Elaine Fairchild. Or Owl. Or whoever the mail guy was. Or Mr. Rogers himself. I know for a fact that watching that show made me suddenly develop many cravings for apples and oranges and other fruits as he would regularly show fruits and the show would usually air when I would've gotten an afternoon snack (thus my routine selection of apples and oranges).

Sometimes I secretly wish I were a little kid again so I could watch "Mr. Rogers" one more time. He may be soft-spoken, but hey, he's not like Mr. O'Neill. (for one thing, do you see Mr. O'Neill becoming a Presbyterian minister? no? didn't think so)

Diane, just passing by really quickly

I knew someone would have loved Mr Rogers as a kid... that's why I apologized in advanced. I can honestly say there really wasn't any part of the show I relly liked even a little. I always thought Mr Rogers was really strange... He's probably just acting normal though and I was the strange one. I guess I watched Sesame Street and I remember liking Captain Kangaroo... But mostly, as a child, I remember watching Dark Shadows, Kung Fu movies, and monster movies...

You can still watch him... why not? You watch Daria and she's a cartoon... You're half-way there... :)

He may be soft-spoken, but hey, he's not like Mr. O'Neill.

Did Mr Roger's do that? That's great for him. Ok, I'll take him out of my theory... Now it's just a theory about Barney and The Teletubbies... ;)

Marie

"I quote others in order to better express my own self." -Montaigne

MarieRoss wrote:

Hey, that's OK. I can see adults cringing at that show, but I remember when I loved that show to bits.

Wow, when you were a child you watched stuff like that? Hm, what was the "darkest" thing I used to watch back then...ummm, "The Addams Family"? Actually, one of my childhood favorites was the movie "Night of the Living Dead", but I liked it 'cos it was a good movie, not because of the scare factor. (btw -- I'm talking about the original b&w version from the late '60s)

LOL. That's OK. "Daria" is more than a cartoon. In fact it's the only cartoon I've ever liked that no one had to force me to like. Weird. And it's the only show I've ever watched that's made me compelled to rush out and get books of (just recently laid claim to "The Daria Diaries" so now my collection is complete).

LOL. That's OK, it's your opinion. And yes, Mr. Rogers has been a Presbyterian minister since I believe the 1950s. I remember reading that in James Brady's "In Step" column about him in 1989. And...ugh, Barney and the Teletubbies...now those two I agree with you with. And I had to watch a lot of Barney too as he became really popular when I was a teacher's aide in grade school and I helped out the pre-k teacher (which entailed my passively watching MANY Barney videos...*shivers*).

Diane

I can sympathize completely, I think I've seen just about every Barney tape there is... My 9yr old niece loved Barney from his begining and now my 2 yr old niece loves him, too. The 2 yr old also loves the Teletubbies so I've seen all their stuff, too... I wish she liked Blue's Clues or The Big Comfy Couch; they're much more adult-friendly, I think, oh well...

Marie

"All children wear the sign: 'I want to be important NOW.' Many of our juvenile delinquency problems arise because nobody reads the sign." -Dan Pursuit

Diane said:

I liked Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood when I was small. Especially the idea of the trolley that could go to the imagnary kingdom.

Guess it must have been a train of thought ...

That was one of my favorite shows as a child. Reinforced by the fact that my father had connections with a theater that he did advertising work for and as a result I met John Astin once. He was very friendly, and told me interesting stories about working on "The Addams Family". Including that they blew those trains up for REAL, with dynamite.

That totally TERRIFIED me the first time I saw it (at around 8) and gave me nightmares. To this day I sometimes have zombe dreams.

I loved sf and horror movies as a child. They used to show lots of sf / horror movies from the 1950's on Saturday afternoons, and I saw them all. Most of the ones they later used on MST3K I first saw that way.

And I really liked monster movies, especially giant monster movies. I used to set up toy towns and play Godzilla.

The Teletubbies are baby Borg. You see, they START by implanting the TV's ...

Hoo hoo hoo, you need to hear the Love song ...

"I love you ... you love me ..."

Being trapped in a room with that song, for all eternity ... now THAT is Hell.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

I liked Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, etc.

The one thing that HASN'T been brought up that I just HATE is Veggie Tales... I dunno...Stupid Christian cartoon... it's part of this whole "Religion Lite" thing going on that we just brainwash them as children to go around smiling about loving God and all that, and that'll be the extent of their thoughts on the subject even when they grow up-- trust me, I know these people. They are VERY DANGEROUS.

I think my hostility level is rising. A couple years ago I braved a Christian book store to get a Veggie Tales beanie for a friend...

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

MarieRoss wrote:

Umm, probably not. Though it's almost heretical for a Pittsburgher to say this, I never liked Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. Not even a little bit. I thought it was an insult.

Now, Sesame Street didn't premiere until I was in Junior High (and I do remember seeing the very first episode with my younger sister and brother, and thinking: "Well, at least it's better than Mr. Rogers. Poor kids." ). Now "The Electric Company". That was a show. "Tune in tomorrow for 'Love of Chair'." Classic.

I watched Captain Kangaroo when I was pre-school age, and by the time I hit Kindergarten, I was convinced that the Captain was nothing but a shill for Crayola. When I was in grade school, I'd always get Prang crayons, just to be counter-Captain-cultural. (Hey, it was the '60s). Though later, when my youngest sister, who's 14 years younger than me, was at Captain watching age, I thought it had improved. And the clever incorporation of the original theme music into the '70s "Good Morning Captain" theme was well done.

I used to hurry home from school to catch DS during its original run. It was on at 3:30 on WPGH-53, since the local ABC affiliate didn't carry it. This was in the BC era... Before Cable. The only TV in the house that could pick up WPGH's UHF signal with any reliability was the old black-and-white Motorola in the basement. And the basement was my bedroom at the time. As a 12 year old, I thought Kate Jackson was the ultimate babe. And Quentin was cool. I'll still catch it when I can on Sci-fi.

By all accounts, Fred Rogers is a great guy. I went to school with Joe "Handyman" Negri's daughter, and Joe sometimes plays guitar with our choir at Midnight Mass on Christmas. According to him, Mr. Rogers is genuine. But I still can't stand the show.

Don't forget Pokemon.

TDR: So, what do y'all think Daria watched when she was little. She's a child of the early '80s. "She-Ra"? "You Can't Do That on Television" or "Pinwheel" on Nickelodeon? "Dumbo's Circus" on Disney? Can you tell I have kids who are roughly the same age as Daria?

Peace Kevin

[email] (KTrick45) wrote:

Okay, here's a question: Why did they call that girl on "You Can't Do That on Television" "Moose?" What was up with that?

And "Danger Mouse." You forgot "Danger Mouse." Lots and lots of "Danger Mouse."

You know, it's funny-- I don't remember watching much in the way of cartoons in the 80s. Must've been too busy with extracurricular activities. ;-)

rich.

Daria: Sorry, with all of this animation, I thought I was on Nickelodeon for a moment.

Jane: You wish.

Daria: Tell me about it.

Rich wrote:

Who knows? Something Canadian, no doubt.

Hmmm. Could be...

Well, my kids were born in '83 and '85. Cartoons were kind of the video backdrop of the '80s for me. I can quote episodes of "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and "Tiny Toon Adventures". And some of them were actually a little clever.

Peace Kevin

You're right... it was "The Electric Company" I used to watch... I had comepletely forgotten it...

I don't remember what I liked about the show, only that my siblings and I used to argue which was best... "Captain Kangaroo" or "Captain Noah and His Magical Ark" (I think that's the name), The decision was split 2:2 so we never did resolve it...

My step mother used to let me stay up late (it came on at midnight, I think) to watch "Dark Shadows" probably because she was afraid to watch it alone, I guess... And then I would have to go to bed... is it any wonder I had so many strange dreams as a kid? I still do, actually. I was also very, very, very afraid of the dark as a kid... I have made my peace with that one, though, sort of...

I never really thought he was putting on an act... I guess I always thought why would any one act that way if it wasn't natural to them?

I actually don't find "Pokemon" too bad, or "Dragon Ball Z" or "Sailor Moon"... I definately like "Reboot."

I remember watching "You Can't Do That On Television" when I babysat... I thought it was a cool kid's show. I also used to like "The Little Prince." Would Daria, as a child, have even bothered too much with children's programs? Well, maybe to make fun of them...

Marie

"Juvenile appraisals of other juveniles make up in clarity what they lack in charity." -Edgar Z Friedenberg

KTrick45 wrote: <snip discussion about "sesame Street" and stuff i've never heard of>

aaarghhh bloody hell, i HATED that. The only things i remember liking (also being a child of the early '80s) were "Trapdoor" and "Bagpuss". In greece i used to watch "the Smurfs" which was shown in czech or dutch or something odd, with Greek subtitles. I don't think i noticed at the time, being about 2, but later i found it rather ironic, considering most "smurfs" viewers are not old enough to read anyhow.

Never heard of 'em..

yes ;)

Eh, I wasn't allowed to watch TV until I was 5 :P, So I never got to see Bagpuss :( Had to get up at 6.30 on Sundays thirteen years later to get my bagpuss experience. I read the smurfs in French. And babar, Tintin and Marsupalimi. I don't speak French :) Parents, pah. Marsupilami kicks ass, tho :) *Yes, it's emoticon one-day-sale! At Cashmans now!*

-- Greg's Rich Inner Life Code L-1 CCRAMF-1/2 30p S- R+ L+ M- RTSWWP 2+3+8+34 MLNBGN

Alli said:

I saw ... and liked ... the Smurfs when I was in my late teens. :-P

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

You know, with all of this talk about smurfs and puppets, I just had an image-- would it be funny to see a bunch of smurf puppets get chased around by Whatshisname and the cat? And would it be even funnier if a few got stepped on? I'd vote yes. ;-)

Got puppets? rich.

"How can we be lying if we're on television?" -- Olly.

that's punishment?? Why don't I get that sort of punishment more often?? All my punishments involve taking away my car or computer...

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Spoken like someone who likes James Joyce... :)

Marie

"It's simple really, very clear, like music floating in the air... invisible, yet everywhare..." -The Nightmare Before Christmas

Ooh very much. I'm probably one of the few teenagers in the world with pictures of James Joyce taped up in my room. Right between Jack Kerouac and the Monkees.

Of course my introduction to Joyce was... odd. No one told me "READ JOYCE" which was the inspiration for most of the books I was reading. It wasn't for a class. My father just bought a copy (which he still hasn't read) of "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man", I looked at the back on the way back from the school and thought "Sounds like Vivian Stanshall." That was my introduction. I read the book over Thanksgiving. It led to Ulysses and even an attempt at Finnegans Wake, and a 2000 word term project on Joyce for College Writing, which I obsessed over for... a long time. That's what I did in my math class, my science class, my German class, my Government class, and my Econ class: work on Joyce project. I was obsessed. It was great.

I read lots of Joycean scholars and decided the people most qualified to understand Joyce were people like Vivian Stanshall, who fancied himself modeled after Stephen Dedalus, and evidently did a good job-- since that was my introduction. Wow.

the ever-off-topic,

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Dagny Scott wrote in message news:[email]...

often??

pictures

Monkees.

JOYCE"

wasn't for a

Portrait

from the

introduction. I

attempt at

Writing,

class,

class: work

to

himself modeled

my

Well, I haven't read anything by Joyce but if you endorse it I'll add it to my list and give it a look.

By way of comparison, I hated "The Brothers Karamazov."

Dagny said:

pictures

Now *that* is an interesting combination :)

And you are one of the VERY few American teenagers who would have had that thought, too ... and you've infected MY brain with the knowledge of that man's existence too. Curse you different ones and your unusual knowledge! ;-)

Was Mr. Stanshall then a major Joyce fan?

and always-interesting ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

Certainly more interesting than what's up on my room's walls...um, a lot of Duran Duran, some U2, a pic of "The Breakfast Club" cast, a pic of Jim Morrison...and that's it.

Diane

Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:

Wait-- you mean you put *things* on your walls???

rich.

"This is Precious Roy, and I just ate a handful of honeybees!" -- Precious Roy.

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

While I never got into Joyce (no, I don't know why-- just didn't like his style-- I know, that's not a very good excuse, but what the hey), I had a similar obsession with Milton's Paradise Lost. Diff'rent stroke for diff'rent folks. If you must know, I took 3 classes in college that touched on it, and I even have a book of illustrations that Gustav Dor� did for it in the 1860s. I've always loved epics-- the Iliad is another favorite of mine. Ripping good yarns with strong characters as well.

Well, I'm sure you've seen this site already, but I'll post it for anyone else interested: I give you "Ulysses for Dummies:"

http://www.bway.net/~hunger/ulysses.html

hey, what's wrong with that?

rich.

"Absolute certainty is stasis, boring. We need uncertainty -- it's the only way to go." -- Dr. Leon Lederman, physicist.

I'm looking for the "Dr. Seuss for Dummies" website... How does it go? I like them Sam, I really, really like smurfs my friend... And I will eat them all, even if they give me the ... nevermind...

Marie (who still plays with her inner child)

"Your children are not dead. They are just waiting until the world deserves them." -Robert Browning, The Pied Piper Of Hamelin

your sons and your daughters are beyond your command, for the times they are a'changin...

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Dagny Scott wrote in message ...

deserves

are

The eastern world it is exploadin', violence flarin', bullets loadin'

Don't know why that came to mind there. we return you to your normal programming.

Bettster

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

How come Nicole gets to be gracious everytime you respond to her posts? I wanna be something! (I know I sound like I'm three. I'm not feeling exactly *twenty*- three today :)

And BTW, I've observed that you seem to really like this discussion Jordan. I think you posted the most on these kinda threads.

Cheryl

(Who has a *very* greasy mouse from posting while eating popcorn. Yum!)

[email] wrote in message ...

My entire Usenet identity is based people thinking I'm three :)

On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:15:38 GMT, [email] wrote:

Hey, I don't know either. Last time I checked I was merely meek and polite. But perhaps Jordan saw through that facade :)

I guess you could be the.. emn.. what does wicka chick mean anyway?

Yeah, he does. I like reading some of the more insightful and analytical posts (from other regulars as well) because it brings "Daria" closer to home I think.

But I suppose most of us relate to the show somehow anyway, otherwise we wouldn't be involved in this NG :)

Ooh, yum. I usually keep a towel or some tissue while I'm at my computer because I tend to snack while I'm on it as well. Sometimes even actual meals. Of course when the snack is especially oily as popcorn is, sometimes towels and tissues just can't help :)

Sent via Nicole's fingers Typing what I know. Not typing what I don't.

In article ,

posts?

Well I'm a wiccan, and the 'k' stands for something personal, and I'm a chick, girl, whatever. But when you say it out loud, I thought it sounded really cool. Just try it...

Yum!)

That makes alot of sense. Which is probably why I didn't think of it :) *Note to self: buy tissue. Lots of tisue*

lol! How long have you been posting here Nicole? Your pretty cool, you have the force to become one of the older long-timers here. Very promising.

Cheryl _ _

Helen- You know I used to wear miniskirts...but life goes on. "I am cool and that is it, and everyone else is full of, full of..."

wicka_chick wrote in message news:7q9v8t$1lc$[email]...

feeling

a

Well I thought wicka_chick sounded cool. It rhymes anyway.

Hey, at least they haven't turned your downtown STREETS into a RACETRACK!!

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Next weekend that's precisely what's going to happen in Downtown LA.

--.\\<-H--

It's an epidemic! It's a conspiracy!

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

It's a floor wax! It's a dessert topping!

rich.

Quinn: People are so weird!

Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.

paperpusher wrote:

Now hold on there.... New Shimmer is a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

Here, I'll put some on your mop (fsssshhhh!) and some on your butterscotch pudding (fssssshhhhh!).....

Mmmm tastes great...... and just look at that shine!!

Twistedly, Marty Charter Member, Secret Underground Bummer Culture Silver Grove, KY Chapter

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:52:41 -0400, William Fowler wrote:

Call me crazy, but I'm not sure the world needs tasty mops and shiny puddings...

  ____    _________________________________________________________
 /\\\\\  ( and from the darkness came the spot; and from the spot (
[]--3\\\  )came the earth; and from the earth came the nude wizard.)
<    //= ( can you see him? he is looking at you. over there..... (
 __/ / |\ ) - 'art', regurgitator                                  )
 "\  \ ""(________________________________________________________(
          Jordan Dellar               [email]

William Fowler wrote:

LOL. Reminds me of those Twip ads on TV Land. In one commercial Twip's a hair styler *and* dessert. With both this post and the commercial I've guffawed.

Diane the hopelessly average

In article , Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:

I like the line from Babylon 5, when Garabaldi isn't sure if what he's buying is an aphrodisiac or a floor cleaner.

"Well, I guess I'll take it. But this better not leave a waxy buildup on ANYTHING!"

On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:

It can cut through this shoe! It can make french fries!

-Mindy

Guaranteed never to break... it broke.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall

Mindy wrote:

It's a shipwreck! It's a job!

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Siento que debemos saber para el sue�o de qui�n brillar� esta luz o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:nothing

Rat Korga wrote:

But that's not all! It slices, it dices, it juliennes, and it grates! It serves as a great centerpiece *and* you can take it anywhere! How much do you think such a magical invention could cost you? $50, $60? Well, it's retail value is $49.95, but during this special commercial offer you can have not one but TWO of these amazing inventions for just two easy payments of $19.95! And if you order now we'll also include this super duper Thingamajig ABSOLUTELY FREE! So pick up the phone and call now!

(I've been watching way too many advertisements for work)

Diane

wicka_chick wrote:

If you say it really fast, it sounds like a funk guitar rhythm. Try it.

wicka_chick-a wicka_chick-a wicka_chick-a wicka_chick-a

Ok, ok, you have to throw the "a" in there to give it a real funk sound, but still, it's kinda cool.

rich. Who has a few friends who are wiccans IRL as well.

Jane: All I want is to make beautiful things!

Or you could go the route of the rap at the beginning of the Chaka Khan hit "I Feel For You." If you don't have someone special in your life now, hold out until they say THIS to you:

"wicka chick let me rock you let me rock you wicka chick let me rock you that's all I wanna do wicka chick let me rock you let me rock you wicka chick let me rock you 'cause I feel for you wicka chick won't you tell me what you wanna do do you feel for me the way I feel for you wicka chick let me tell you what I wanna do I wanna love you wanna hug you wanna squeeze you too here let me take you in my arm let me fill you with my charm wicka 'cause you know that I'm the one to keep you warm wicka I'll make it more than just a physical dream Wanna rock you wicka baby 'cause you make me wanna scream"

Jeg7777 wrote:

<snip really cool reworking of the rap intro to "I Feel for You">

You know the way to my heart, Joe. "I Feel for You", as well as "I'm Every Woman" (by the same woman), are two of my very favorite dance songs. And my very favorite decade PERIOD has got to be the 1980s. If I could join Marty McFly and take a time machine back in time ("gonna go back in time"...whoo, Huey Lewis!), I would love to transform myself into a 1980s teen. That way I know I could have a decent shot at getting some great teen years in (I had a decent time as a teen, yes, but the times were NOT suited for teenhood from around '92 - '96, when I was at that stage of development).

Diane

Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:

The only thing that sucked about being a teen in the 80s was being a college student from 87-91, when the Hair Bands invaded. *Shudder* And people wondered why we started listening to "alternative" music? It's simple-- it was the only alternative available! Of course, in Chapel Hill, the competition was always to see who could claim to have CDs from the most obscure bands. ;-) I remember when some people considered REM, 10,000 Maniacs, and The Smithereens to be alternative. <g> Now, if you can pronounce their name or sing along with the music, it's too "mainstream." It's getting ridiculous now.

BTW, Diane-- you might like Velocity Girl. Sort of a pop sound with a bit of an edge to it. The lyrics are pretty good, too. Simpatico was their best album, although Gilded Stars was pretty good, too. They were a band from the late 80s till the mid 90s, then they broke up. Too bad they never really caught on, they had a great sound.

rich. (who's really disappointed in the Comas CD he bought the other day. yuk.)

Max: We're criminales!

Velocity Girl are named after a lyric from a Primal Scream song, an early one. I like primal scream :) There, you learn two new things every day :)

Diane said:

Hee hee hee ... you woulda made a good teen back when I was young :)

I know what you mean ... by the early 90's they were all into the "senseless rage" and "endless Generation X angst" type routines. You might have fit better into a more cheerful age.

Weird that we were so cheerful actually ... it was the climax of the Cold War and a lot of people actually thought atomic war was going to break out at random. In the 90's, we're objectively better off, but for some reason everyone's all depressed and whiney. I don't get it ... oh well :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:35:42 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:

Hmm... whenever I see that name, I get a flash of 'Oh Yeah' by Yello...

YOOO BOW BOW -- chick -- wicka chicka!

(I'm sorry. I shouldn't inflict late 80s culture on people without proper warning.)

Jordan Dellar (who has a very greasy hamster from leaving it in the deep frier too long. Mmmm, scrumptious!)

  ____    _________________________________________________________
 /\\\\\  ( and from the darkness came the spot; and from the spot (
[]--3\\\  )came the earth; and from the earth came the nude wizard.)
<    //= ( can you see him? he is looking at you. over there..... (
 __/ / |\ ) - 'art', regurgitator                                  )
 "\  \ ""(________________________________________________________(
          Jordan Dellar               [email]

Jordan Dellar wrote in message ...

Nooo... Not the 80's! RUN AWAY! :P

Greg, who has a very scared expression from having read too many posts :)

[email] (MarieRoss) wrote:

Besides, this question was answered in the Negative on the first Daria Day. (Read the transcript at Outpost Daria.)

You know, it amazes me how often this little thread rears its ugly head, in spite of the evidence to the contrary. It's kind of like the Jane/Jessee thing after #205 aired-- how could anyone doubt that Jane wasn't interested???

rich.

Daria: "I always knew that I would die in Nowheresville"

Jane: "But I didn't think I'd die there quite so soon."

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

All of this talk reminds me of the "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry tries to pull off "the roommate switch." :)

But, seriously, those sorts of things tend to get very nasty, even when your friend and the intended target break up. It's just not cricket.

rich.

Jane: You're a twisted little cruller, ain't'cha?