As I've posted many times, this Friday it's Daria's turn in the TV Toon Showdown -- http://www.usaweekend.com/celebs/ -- against Pinky & The Brain. So I thought I'd see what other shows are remaining and size up the competition.
Right now, The Simpsons are cruising to an easy victory over Underdog, 69-30%. They will be Daria's next opponent, assuming we all do our jobs here in the next week. :)
After the Daria/P&TB match, this round features The Flintstones vs. Bobby's World, then Speed Racer vs. The Tick. Already set for the quarterfinals: Gargoyles vs. Ren & Stimpy, and Doug vs. Animaniacs.
So here's the deal: WE CAN WIN THIS WHOLE THING!!!!
I don't want to overlook Pinky & The Brain, but we should win this one. The WB killed this show when they paired the mice with Elmyra. It's not even on Saturdays any more. And most of the other shows have been around for at least a little while and are not currently in production, and only "The Flintstones" truly qualifies as an all-time classic with a mass pop-culture awareness.
That leaves The Simpsons. It will take a large effort in that round, but if we can beat the Simpsons, this contest is ours for the TAKING!!
But don't forget, we have to knock off Pinky & The Brain FIRST...so get all of your voting "tricks" ready, and take time off from school/work if necessary. :)
Not so... I just did my part ;) and the number's more like 54%-45%. Well within reach. Just to reiterate the best trick for voting: Turn off cookies in your browser, and vote away! If we all voted, say, 20 times, it'd make a -huge- difference! Remember, the voting closes tonight (the 28th) on the Simpsons, so get out there!
.... and vote for underdog, too... let's see if we can "fix" that Simpsons problem... you know, maybe see that they have a little "accident," like a trip up in the contest... might be a good way to practice for next week... muahaha!
rich.
"Woooo, what a racket!" -- General Buck Conroy, Publisher, Brutal Mercenary Magazine.
Well, in this case, yeah. Try to follow me here... Given: 1) MTV has had an attitude of what can kindly be called "benign neglect" with regards to promoting "Daria," and 2) The Simpsons need more publicity like Beavis and Butt-Head need a match, and 3) The least that can happen, should "Daria" win, is a nice write-up in USAWeekend about the show. At most, MTV could use the contest in on-air promotion. Heck, the creators could conceivably (I know I'm stretching here) even take this into a meeting with MTV's suits and wrangle another season out of them. Either way, the show benefits.
And all we had to do is take a human life. ;)
Chris Majors Keeper of the alt.tv.daria FAQ: http://www.auburn.net/~cwmajors/dariafaq.htm
OK, OK. Points taken, but I'm still not going to vote for "Underdog" over "The Simpsons" (despite the symbolism involved) because, well...it would make me feel dirty. The BAD kind of dirty. ;:)
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not going to place a tactical vote; if I voted in Simpsons vs Underdog I'd vote for Simpsons. I'll vote, once, for Daria in Daria vs anything!
I'm not going to post multiple votes because I believe it's unethical. Okay, it's a trivial matter; but I won't give away my integrity for a trivial matter (and God preserve me from ever having the chance to give it away for a real benefit).
You gotta reap what you sow. Imagine this scenario: Daria wins. Some journo does a big expos� on how Daria won by organised vote-rigging. The fact that Daria won is now no use whatever to Glenn in demonstrating Daria's following and pitching for another season ("Yes, it won that vote, but that was fixed!"). Daria fans now have a reputation as an evil cartel of vote-rigging schemers ("Sure, that's the very target audience our advertisers want to reach!" ;:-| ), or however the press choose to brand us.
I'm saying here why *I* won't participate in multiple voting; I'm not passing judgement on those who've made a different choice.
Hope these observations aren't overly curmudgeonly. I'm just recovering from the worst holiday of my life. Four days in North Wales, planning to refresh my soul with comtemplation of the beauties of the Snowdonia National Park. I spent a long time sitting down looking at the view. Trouble was, it was three feet away and covered in tiles: I was stricken with a gastric virus, and spent the last three days of the four with diarrhoea, fever, and headache. 8-(
Before I start debating with you, Martin, let me welcome you back, first. I have to admit I was worried that the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal might've gotten you. :-) Sorry to heat that the trip didn't go as well. Maybe you could schedule a trip to Mexico next year! :-) (I've been there, and I was never so sick in my life, so you definitely have my sympathies!)
Oh, and standard disclaimers apply for the following post. It's a lengthy one, as usual, cause I don't know when to stop typing.
"Martin Sylvester" wrote:
I'd rather vote for Underdog. Underdog was a better influence on me growing up than the Simpsons would've been, and I can't really say that the Simpsons has been that great over the last few years-- they're definitely coasting, like many shows do when they hit their stride. But we can agree to disagree on that particular point. :-)
I respect your beliefs, but I will have to split a hair, if you don't mind. :-) It depends. If this was a "you only get one vote, and we meant it" sort of thing, I'd've only cast my one vote and shuffled along as well, as I can see the bright line distinction there. But the way that USA Weekend has set up all of these showdowns has really turned into a "which group of fans is more willing to send in as many votes as possible." I never have seen any mention about a limit on the number of votes you can cast (there also isn't a limit to how many votes you can cast for the Major League Baseball All-Star Team-- for reasons I will expound upon in a sec.) I saw in one instance on this USA site where the X-Files beat out some other show, Hercules, I think, with 55% of over 435,000 votes. The previous time, only about 14,000 votes had been cast in a battle between X-Files and some other show. Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences. There was also the 76,000 votes cast for the Superfriends as well, and I didn't even know the show still aired.
The reason why the USA site would allow multiple voting is simple--- they base their web ad rates on traffic. They want as many page views as possible, so they're not about to set limits on how many times you can visit their site. Frankly, it'd be bad business. The reason why Major League Baseball allows you to cast multiple votes is simple-- you can cast one vote at a time, but the ballots must be hand-written, official forms, deposited at a participating sponsor's location-- so it guarantees foot traffic for the sponsors, the rabid fans cast their votes for their favorite players, there's also a drawing for prizes as well-- so the sponsors get valuable mailing list info. A capitalistic win-win-win scenario. Of course, major league baseball bores me to tears, so I don't vote. :-) (I prefer the minor leagues. Go Bulls!)
What I'm saying is that if they were *truly* seeking the best cartoon in the opinion of their readers, they would have used a *completely different* system than they currently use. It's possible, believe me. But they didn't. So I'll have to agree to disagree with you there. :-)
I'll probably have to roll a rock around for a few years, then, I guess, but I'm willing to make the sacrifice for one of the *very* few shows I actually believe in as a positive force in the Vast Wasteland these days. Television is so terrible these days, I'm scared at the thought of putting any future children in front of it, mostly because TV today doesn't give kids a chance to just be kids. But then again, neither does society-- I'll save this thought for a further post, though. :-)
As for the possibility of an expose, I wouldn't hold my breath. Since USA Today owns the site, and they also own a large number of newspapers, let's just say I wouldn't bet on it. They would stand to lose ad revenue from that little site, considering how 435,000 different people did not find the site in time to vote for X-Files. People in the US bleat about the "Liberal Media," but that's a joke. The Media is a business, designed to entertain-- be it through cartoons, websites, or "News" (And, yes, I use that term *very* loosely.) If it's provocative, it sells. And, besides, once the voting process was exposed for what it was, everyone would simply shrug and move on-- "Oh, it's just like the All-Star Voting..."
If you want me to get extremely cynical, I could always state the old Hollywood axiom that there's only one kind of publicity, and that's publicity. (There is *no* bad publicity, in Hollywood's eyes.) I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's how the business operates. And a vicious business it can be-- any show that doesn't get good, consistent ratings usually winds up in the dumper, and with a network as flakey as MTV can be, doubly so. Their sometimes overactive neglect of its #2 show is still a mystery to me.
Thank you. :-) The nice thing about this group is that we can agree to disagree. Besides, if we all agreed about everything, this'd soon become a very boring place.
Get some more rest, lay off the wine a little, and drink plenty of *clean* water. Oh, and stay away from the curry for a few days. :-)
rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some people are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
Nah, I escaped from it. Good job it's stupid as well as ravenous.
It was real River of Poo stuff. If that's my experience of Snowdonia National Park, I tremble to think what could happen in Mexico! To be fair, I've holidayed in Snowdonia many a time, and led and participated in walking/climbing/backpacking expeditions there, with no illness at all. (I want to avoid non-UK readers writing off Snowdonia as a Place Too Dangerous to Visit!)
Never seen Underdog, but I do like The Simpsons. So, yes, we disagree, albeit perhaps because of ignorance on my part of the values of Underdog.
You do make a good point here. But I take it as a normal assumption that there's one vote per voter. Why are people disabling cookies?
So, the vote is a cynical ploy to hike up page hits. I can choose not to be obediently manipulated. But I recognise that you and others might see it as a trade off: page hits for votes.
I never knew about this! I don't know anything comparable in the UK.
No problem. I'm not out to make everyone think the way I do! 8-)
journo
that
following
vote-rigging
I agree wholeheartedly about the value of Daria, and the moral bankruptcy of just about everything else on the box. But I don't believe that the ends can ever justify the means. If a method is wrong, it's wrong, even if pursued for the greater glory of God, for national security, or the good of the Fatherland. Multiple voting for Daria would feel to me - on a way lower scale, with such a difference of magnitude that this simile is absurd - like shagging for chastity, or killing for life (aside: I abhor abortion as the taking of defenceless human life, but I abhor the idea of opposing it by mortal violence, or the threat of mortal violence.)
But other newspaper groups have web access, too! USA Today might even portray itself as an injured party, adtonished to find its vote abused...
Unless the expos� actuially *increases* traffic to the site. Any publicity will do. ;-)
Amen to that. There's a brilliant poster I remember seeing. Broadsheets, with real and seriously reported news, in front of a reader. But he couldn't see them: hands were tying round his eyes a blindfold made up of headlines like "Charles and Di - the true story."
If they'd heard of that.
Yes, the lack of ad hominem rants is one of the great things about atd, and I think it reflects well on the sort of thoughtful people who appreciate Daria.
from
refresh
I
Unusually for an Englishman, I'm not fond of curry at the best of times. The mere prospect of a curry right know makes my head swim. Tbere was no pharmacy where I was staying, so I made my own oral rehydration mxiture out of 1 part Sprite, 3 parts plain boiled water, and a pinch of salt. But I'm back on solids now, thanks!
I'd agree with you there, Rich. I'd have to agree with Martin on the points he makes about multiple voting, though.
I can't quite see that making no mention of how many votes you can cast is a licence to cast as many as you want - hardly any shop windows are marked "do not smash this window" however this is not an implicit licence to smash the things. The difference here is that there *are* explicit laws against criminal damage and for that matter there are laws against voting multiple times in "real" elections - on the Toon Showdown we are (in my opinion, at least, FWIW) expected to apply the same rules implicitly. The fact that cookies need to be disabled also seems to point to something, somewhere, at least being interested in multiple voting .
They'd clock up just as many hits from people repeatedly reloading the page to see the latest result in any case, wouldn't they?
"Phone in and vote" shows on the TV might be seen as comparable - they generate revenue for the promoter and BT (a very large amount, in the case of the recent "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" show) and there is often at least an implicit "vote only once" rule. BBC Radio 4's "Person of the Year" show has been scrapped following allegations of a large number of multiple votes a couple of years back, and a TV vote-in some time ago on whether to scrap the Monarchy was also accused of multiple voting (despite the TV company who made the show claiming that they had introduced "safeguards" to stop people voting more than once).
I'd agree with you both there :-}
{snip}
I wish I'd seen that.
{snip}
NO YOUR BOTH RONG AND STOOPID AND I THINK YOU BOtH SUx.
Nope - it just looks wrong in an atd post! Oddly the only other group I know of with a very similar "atmosphere", including rampant thread mutation, is umra.
Strange. I always find a nice hot vindaloo works a great cure for the runs - perhaps the chilli in the curry sort of scours the Bad Stuff out of you a bit like drinking Drano would!
Cheers
Tony
This posting is my own opinion and not the opinion of Sun Microsystems (which doesn't watch Daria anyway - it's a corporation, for crying out loud)
I don't think any one would argue that the show would benefit greatly from this type of publicity and everyone that participates (myself included) would deserve a huge thank you from the producers and from MTV. But the question you have to ask yourself is "Do the ends justify the means?" I think they do, for many of the reasons that Chris mentions. This is a show that everyone should at least see once before dismissing it. So, if you feel that 'Daria' is worth this kind of effort, and you can handle all of the moral/ethical implication of voting multiple times, by all means.... If you don't feel it's right to do this, then don't, it's rare these days to find someone who stands up for what he/she believes and no one here will think any less of you for not participating.
Now to try to "take over the <animated> world," or is it a plot for total animated domination.
Mike Quinn I can be reached through e-mail at: [email]
Underdog was a cartoon made in the 60's. Underdog was a superhero who happened also to be a dog. (But then again, some of the other characters were humans, some were other animals-- it didn't really matter, though, since everyone pretty much walked on 2 legs and wore clothes.) Anyway, Underdog would maintain his Secret Identity as Loveable Shoeshine Boy, waiting for trouble. When trouble reared its ugly head-- Underdog his stomach would fill, with his Underdog super energy pill. (Underdog always spoke in rhymed verse-- I don't know why.) Usually trouble involved Sweet Polly Purebred, ace reporter and his lady friend, being kidnapped by someone evil, like Riff Raff.
The animation style was very much Jay Ward-ish (Bullwinkle)--- I don't remember if the same studio did it or if it was just an hommage (French for rip-off) <g>.
They used to show the reruns a lot when I was a kid, and I loved the cartoon, mostly because I liked the music, especially the main theme. It had the feel of the old radio incidental music, jazzed up a little. Lots of horns. I think it still airs on Cartoon Network really late at night on weekends. (But I guess that won't help you in the UK. Oops.)
I don't know if you can actually compare it to the Simpsons-- both go for completely different audiences-- Underdog is your basic simple children's cartoon with outlandish villains, while the Simpsons is just a whole nother breed of cartoon.
hope this helps. rich.
Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
Keeping in mind all of the discussion on ethics we've had lately, am I the only person who thinks of this as... sort of unethical? It's certainly not the most honest way to win. I'm not going to stop you, but I'm not going to take part either. I have too much respect for "The Simpsons" to participate in this sort of devious behaviour.
<rationalization> I'd only classify it as unethical if we were the only group doing it, but we aren't. (See, e.g., the 76,000+ votes that the Superfriends got. I don't think that they have *that* many fans, do they?) We are simply taking advatage of the same functions of which the other fans have taken advantage. Devious? Maybe. Fair? Sure-- Simpsons fans can (and some probably have) do the exact same thing that Underdog and Superfriends have done now and in the past. It's not like we discovered something that everyone didn't already know-- that internet polls are only as good as the programs that are designed to collect the data. If the USA people are too sloppy to prevent enthusiastic fans from supporting their favorite cartoons, well, then, they should've known better.
And, frankly, the Simpsons won't get cancelled from lack of publicity, but Daria could use every little boost she can get, because, frankly, MTV isn't doing their level best to promote the show. (Daria? Oh, yeah, I think we air that... it's about the two dumb teenage guys, right?) I'm doing my part to help a show I believe is far better than any of its competitors, because I believe in excellence and I loathe mediocrity-- which is why I stopped watching the Simpsons a long time ago. Yes, it had a few excellent seasons, but recently the show has just become unwatchable for me. Hell, I thought that the Tick was funnier and more original, but even it only survived two seasons. So, yeah, I'll fight for the shows I believe in with whatever tools I can get my hands on. :-)
As for data gathering methods, in my own little survey I can use my admin function to kick out duplicate votes, but then again I haven't had to do that yet, as I'm not running a competition-- I just want your opinions so I can see what the groupmind thinks about the show as a whole. I don't think it'd be too hard to put in a similar function at the USA site that would bar multiple votes. But they didn't. Besides, they want high traffic on their site, anyway. Manus manum lavat. They get high traffic, our show wins. Yes, it's a morally "gray" area, but what isn't these days, especially on the internet? </rationalization>
from the mud, rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some people are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
Yeah, it is sort of unethical, or something. But these kinds of "polls" and other such popularity contests aren't too well concieved to begin with. "Art is not a competitive sport," as a wise one once said. And like I said in an earlier post, anything that gets the show some press is good. Think about it: Should "Daria" win, we (the people that voted for the show) will have done just as much, if not -more-, to publicize the show than MTV itself.
Chris Majors Keeper of the alt.tv.daria FAQ: http://www.auburn.net/~cwmajors/dariafaq.htm Check out our new "Countdown to Season 3" clock!
BTW, the Underdog/Simpsons contest has ended, it seems... Daria/Pinky is up, but the server isn't running properly-- apparently it's having internal errors, or it's being reprogrammed, or something. But the last time I checked while it was still working (approx. 1:15 AM) U-dog had a 59-40 lead over the Simpsons.
just doing my part, rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some people are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.