daria as 'family viewing', and lawndale as 'outcast paradise'

All this talk about the Noggin cuts got me into thinking... hasn't Daria been pretty tame all along? There's no profanity, for one. (at least so far as youth culture would consider profanity). For other, there's very little 'sexual situations' in any meaning of the words, debatably unusually for this type of age group. When I think of this I think of Quinn in the some of the first couple episodes (reffering I think to the unaired pilot and 'esteemters') where she seemed somewhat more 'liberated'... (debatably) a stark constrast to the quinn who was uncomfortable touching a shirtless guy in 'This year's model'.

Furthermore, lawndale high always seemed like almost an ideal highschool to me in terms of social groups (ideal in the sense that's it better then anything else out there).. sure, you had the clicks (although we really only saw two, the fashion club and the 'sportos'), but nobody seemed all that pretentious about it... keven and brittany and jodie and mack seemed to talk to daria and jane and each other with significant frequency. less so for the j's and the club... but they were in a different grade, different classes, after all. There didn't seem to be all that much antagonism, at least directed towards daria and jane...

I guess upchuck was targetted enough... but he was obviously asking for it, and would get it equally in a school of darias and janes versus kevins and britneys.

All in all, lawndale seemed like a pretty benign place, and Daria's problems about alienation (as comes out more a more at the end of the series) were really entirely self-inflicted..

My beef is that that's not the situation in most real high schools... alienation is a much more external matter then internal... any thoughts?

[email] (andrew b) wrote in news:[email]:

Daria uses some profanity on occasion. Jake uses 'dammit' in most of his lines. The show is perfectly clean; however, it isn't all that bad either.

Welcome to reality, a grade or two DOESN'T mean that much in highschool, granted you still see the people.

Wouldn't this be basically all schools? 90% stupid people and a few scattered outcasts?

She more or less WANTED to be alienated.

Pretty much exactly how it is in 'real high schools', only these 'real high schools' have more students and better animation ;)

Gamer

btw, I'm a Sophomore =p

its not always like that in real high schools yea there are the shallow people who go by looks but shallow people are there all throughout life atleast in my highschool there is a big group 40% of our highschool who is shallow and about 50% who hang out with alot of people but only those 20 of 30 people that dont care how popular u are or how u look jus who u are (sounds top good to be true but it is)then there are 10% of people who dont like the other 90% of the people the outcasts and they usually stick together ohh and this goes for all 4 grades in high school and this is pretty good for a southern california school with lots of diversity

kmk hehe this is cute

(  o _ o )
 O(( " )(( ")

[email] (kmk) wrote in message news:...

Well, Daria _does_ mostly interact with a small group of people (Jane, Brittany, Jodie, Kevin, and Mack) at Lawndale. Jane is her best friend; Daria made friends with Brittany in the very second or so episode; and Jodie is a smart aggressively friendly person who impresses Daria with her intelligence. She knows Kevin as Brittany's boyfriend, and Mack as Jodie's boyfriend.

And, as I've said elsewhere, Daria very much intimidates most people who would otherwise actively pick on her. They _assume_ she'd be vicious in a fight (this may or may not be true, but her unflinching nature makes them believe it) and they KNOW she's got a quick, sharp tongue.

Yes, it is :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Hmm. I'm not so sure. I think people leave Daria alone because she plays no part in Lawndale High's hierarchy.

"Ms. C Bendix" wrote in message news:...

This, of course, helps. But remember that the ideal target for bullying is the small, weak, fearful loner. Daria is small and relatively weak, but she's not at all fearful, and she's not as much of a loner as she likes to imagine herself.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

She doesn't give out "pick on me" vibes, no. That's because she's able to give a zinging mouthful to whoever does.

Erm. What is it?

Gamer wrote in message news:...

I wasn't even aware of things like 'damn' being considered profanity until I noticed shows starting to bleep it. This comes as a big suprise to me. To many people I know, 'shit' is verging towards non-profanity

In my experience this is totally incorrect. People tend for the most part to hang around people in their own grades. I've seen this at two different high schools, where in both of which I 'circulated' a lot. The artificial distinction imposed by the 'grade' concept seems to sink it.

In real schools the stupid people are mean. They taunt constantly and actively engage in the destruction of 'outsiders' self esteem. And that's in the occasions where it doesn't get violent. And 'stupidity' isn't necessarily the deciding factor.. at least by all definitions of stupidity... Back in junior high I knew at least a few 'golden-boy' superjocks who had as little trouble getting high honnors as pissing people off and seriously 'damaging' the more fragile minded.

That's exactly what I said. She wanted to be alienated to avoid getting hurt. Such is said explicitly several times, especially in S4-5.

Maybe you've seen better schools then I have and should be thankful. :) Although admittedly I wasn't on the recieving end for much of what I've noticed, so I was lucky too, I suppose.

I'm 19 in my second year of university, so I'd like the memories are still more or less fresh. To think of it, I'd describe my university experience similarly to the lawndale atmosphere... a lot of people have great 'academic ability'... but they're still not the people you'd want to talk to on an extented basis without your brain rotting out. Nothing original to say, and very little desire to try. You have the sportos and fratboys too, of course... and everybody seems fairly good natured towards each other... the '90% stupid' and the 'outsiders' getting along in a tentative peace... much like lawndale, much unlike high schools I've had experience with.

btw. at least the teachers are better. They understand the material even if they can't explain it... that's one up from high school (for me). Although I had a high school history teacher almost as good as DeMartino, and I have quite seen his like again.

[email] (andrew b) wrote in message news:...

That's right and I think it's even right for all countries (germany in my case) If you got enough self esteem you don't care about them, but some people can't take it anymore and they try to life the stupid way and they forget who they are just to be "cool". In my oppinion Daria got enough self esteem not to want be one of them and that's good!

This works for a while but if you do it to long you go mad or you're really depressive,

In university the thing changes. Most of the "ultra-cool-guys" don't make it and the former "outsiders" do quite well. I don't say, that all of the "cool-guys" will work at a gas station, but...

Gamer wrote:

<snip>

No. I think that's a common stereotype.

<snip>

"Ms. C Bendix" wrote in news:3DC1FC8F.91CF1215 @bigpond.com:

If you believe it's stereotypical then when was the last time you walked into a high school?

Of course it's stereotypical, it's a cartoon. Stereotypes often echo an approximation of the truth, however. But it's still an exaggeration. I was last in high school ten years ago.

"Ms. C Bendix" wrote in news:[email]:

Perhaps things were different then. it may appear stereotypical but sadly it's also true.

Perhaps also it's more reflective of American school systems.

andrew b wrote:

Well, yeah, in a way. I think Daria really does belong to an earlier generation...say...Glenn Eichler's.

I find more in the show similar to my HS experiences of the mid 1970s than my sons' experiences of the late 1990s. Well, except for Ms. Li. The principal at my sons' HS is a dead ringer for her. Frightening. Really.

On the other hand, a lot of the situations are universal to high school students in every age since compulsory secondary education began. And I think that those universal topics were the ones that the writers exploited to the fullest extent. This makes sense if you're thinking about syndication a few decades hence. Every age has its unique stressors. The writers avoided these, lest Daria someday be as timely as "The Blackboard Jungle" .

I think most of the tortures and pressures endemic to high school, regardless of the era, are self-inflicted. Coersion by ballistic and pyrotechnic devices excepted, of course. Alienation is *your* choice. Daria knows that. You can engage, and risk the occasional (or, depending on those with whom you choose to engage, the constant) pain of embarrassment or humiliation, or you can withdraw, avoid that pain, and take up the mantle of "outcast". Or individualist, if you prefer. It's your choice. You choose based on your own interests, sensitivities, beliefs and convictions. And you can either fall into the contemporary idiocy that you're a "victim" of these, or you can exercise some brains and spine and make yourself their master.

Yes, there are bad people in high school (and everywhere else on earth). Cruel people, deranged people, manipulative people, sometimes truly evil people. Some of them are students, some adults. I had the good or ill fortune of becoming acquainted with a few of these future convicts during my high school years, as, no doubt, you have. I recognized their ill intentions, and opted let them neither influence nor unduly stress me. (Yes, I still get enraged at injustice, but: "Do what you can with what you have" and leave the rest to whatever higher power you believe in.) Others have only as much power or influence over you as you're willing to give them. And if they can't send you to heaven or hell (and they can't), how much do you need to worry about their opinion of you?

Where I think the show comes up weak is in showing the kind of institutional oppression I see in high schools. Too often, high school is now a place of indoctrination rather than education. That's something that "Daria" generally glossed over, in the form of Ms. Li's security obsession. I think the reality is far more sinister than presented in the show. With any luck, that'll be one of the "unique stressors of the age" I mentioned before. But I'm not overly optimistic.

Peace Kevin

Peace Kevin

[email] (Kevin Trichtinger) wrote in message news:...

I've had the same thought.

On the other hand, I can see why Lawndale's not as vicious as, say, an inner city high school. It's located in a rich suburb.

Right. And given Ms. Li's security systems, such coercion is improbable :)

... and one thing I'll point out with approval is that the writers made the difficult and unpopular point that individualism, pressed too far, is a deliberate pose like any other, and that thus alienation is self-inflicted. It would have been much easier to write the series "Daria = right, everyone else = wrong.

Daria escapes a lot of this because of who her mother is. Remember, in the early episodes, Ms. Li _tried_ to abuse her authority over Daria, only to swiftly learn that Helen Morgendorffer is like a lioness where her cubs are concerned :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (Jordan179) wrote in news:[email]:

The more I watch my "Daria" eps on tape, the more admirable Helen M becomes.

BTW, "Arts and Crass" (one of the ep's Jordan is referring to) is on Noggin tonight (10/29). Lord knows what "the-n's" magic scissors will excise from this one.

Steve Cross

Steve Cross wrote:

I only noticed three cuts the last time it aired.

Jane saying, "And tell the truth about how much it can suck," was cut. Sick Sad World was cut. Ms. Defoe's converstion with upchuck about his poster was cut.

[email] (andrew b) wrote in message news:...

Yes. Very much so.

Which is not, of course, the same thing as "unrealistic."

Yes, though this has more to do with what and who Daria (and Quinn, and to an extent Jane) tend to focus their attention on. You could easily assume that there is quite a lot of promiscuity in Lawndale High -- we just don't get to see it.

I think that the writers got a better handle on Quinn's character in the later episodes. At first, she was going to just be an "anti-Daria," rather than a believable character in her own right.

Part of Quinn's nature, as it evolved, was that her whole boy-crazy attitude is more a game than an expression of real lust. Quinn, until very late in the series, doesn't develop any REAL interest in the opposite sex, as opposed to impressing members of her own sex.

Yes, I agree.

I'll note that:

• Lawndale is located in an upscale community,

2) Ms. Li, for all her faults, is apparently quite good at preventing real violence, and

3) Again, we're seeing this through Daria's eyes, and Daria is not as much of an outcast as she imagines herself to be.

4) In particular, someone like Daria would be rather intimidating to the worst bullies and snobs, so they would leave her alone.

A lot of it was, yes -- which I think was the point of the series.

Mmm, it depends. Daria comes out of a background much more violent than Lawndale (rural Texas) and hence is not easy to intimidate. This keeps the outright bullies off of her. She is verbally very competent and quick-witted, and so she quickly developed a reputation for being someone it's unwise to try to insult (witness her standing up to Tommy Sherman as an example of both points). So _Daria_, in particular, gets treated fairly well.

We don't know if the same thing is true for Burnout Girl or the Fat Chick, for instance.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Yes. I think Daria's problems reflected a growing dissatisfaction with the superficiality of modern American life. A crisis of being, if you will.