Rich and I have been debating whether Tiffany, out of all the Daria characters, can be described as a Christ-like figure. Apparently Christ like debates have occured previously on alt.tv.daria and she was one likely contender. I can't work this one out at all. Any suggestions?
Sarra
[email] writes:
I can't see any link between any fashion club member and Christ. I suppose however they could be viable as disciples under the Lee & Herring interpretation of the gospels on "Good Morning With Richard Not Judy". Ahhhhhhh.....
Daria is obviously the Christ figure, here to save the earthly sinners from themselves by baptising them in sarcasm, overturning the tables in the mall, etc.
Trent is Mary Magdalene, Quinn is Judas, and I forget the rest. I was going to put it all up on my Saint Daria page but I never got round to it.
-Shez.
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:53:21 +0100, Shez wrote:
Hardly.
Daria does a lot of self-sacrifice, but to use that would imply that popularity is an inherently good thing, and we can't have that.
Daria has no disciples, outside of Jane. And in my opinion, Jane is the more dominant figure in that relationship.
There IS no Christ figure on this show. The show comes from the 90's "everything is relative" perspective, and the Bible is from a more black and white era, so the two would not be compatible.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
On 26 Jun 1999 00:37:56 GMT, [email] (Kyle) wrote:
Well, so much for "refusing to dignify a 'Christ figure' discussion," eh? :-)
Martin (send all e-mail to "[email]") +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:52:33 GMT, [email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote:
I really didn't think people would take any "Christ figure" discussion seriously.
As the token Daria fan Christian, and one whose father is a pastor, I feel I'm more qualified than most to make a comparison, since I know more than most about Christ and about the Bible as literature (as opposed to the Bible as divinely inspired. They are two different ways of analyzing it.)
So just pretend I didn't say that first post.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Gentle Readers,
Actually, I'm quite surprized at the number of Christians on this site. People were quite surprized (myself included) that there are two priests who regularly hang out on this discussion group (Fr. Martin Sylvester and myself). My debut post on this newsgroup turned into a discussion of religious education. It was kinda fun.
That comment of Val's...oh, I suppose that's a spoiler, so
Spoilers in space
Houston we have a problem
10 9 8 7 6 Oh well, good enough. Val's comment about Daria being the "Anti-Teen" was hilarious, but more so to Christians, I think.
In Christ, Rev. Paul L. Vasquez
Kyle wrote: <snip>>
<snip>
errr... i only noticed one person taking the discussion seriously...
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:04:55 +0100, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Where, lemme kill him!
Oh wait...
Forgive me in advance, it's gonna be rough sailing the upcoming week.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ahh, let me guess... your girlfriend's away? :)
My best friend's been in America for a few days... grrr i'm bored. :( and today i can't sleep, which is why i am up so insanely early (it's 11:15am). Ahh well. I am getting my hair cut later today, at some incredibly expensive place in town where i'm only going because i've been in there before and thus it's less stressful lol. :)
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:21:27 +0100, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Good guess. An entire week on vacation with her family.
I have nothing better to do than Usenet, so it'll be like the old days of ATD when every thread had my name in it.
11:15 is what I sleep to when I have nothing better to do. And you are lucky you live somewhere where there is more than one place to get your haircut.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Eeep. Back to being involuntarily celibate, are you? ;)
I guess i am. :) I am also lucky that the place i went to has an extremely attractive girl working there, who washed my hair lol. ;)
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:14:22 +0100, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Not to imply that I wasn't celibate before she left too, but yes.
Now, now Alli. We won't have none of that alternative lifestyle garbage on this nice, Christian newsgroup.
Now don't you miss me messing with your sig?
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Besides, that's my job.
Shouldn't you change your e-mail address for a day or so? Instead of "cubswincubswin" it should read "cubslose2of3tophils" - heh heh heh
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:30:48 -0400, Jeg7777 wrote:
Job? What's a job?
Quiet, Flyers fan. I've also got "[email]" if it is more to your liking?
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
In article ,
LOL! (Go Phils!)
At least the Flyers were IN the playoffs ;) I didn't see the Hawks there.
And probably won't for some time to come.
On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:28:31 -0400, Jeg7777 wrote:
This really isn't the place, but the Hawks thrived under their new coach Lorne Molleken the last 2 months of the season, and are completely different team than the one that started last season. And even if they do not succeed this year, they have an amazing young talent base reminescent of the 1997-1998 Toronto Maple Leafs.
And Hull's goal was good.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
hahaha you're probably a lot better at it than i am ;) i have got even less far with girls than i have with guys lol.. sad, isn't it? :)
I keep getting compulsory hair-washes from these extremely scabby old guys, who I am far from fond of. It's obviously my stunning looks, youthful complexion etc. :)
maybe the attractive hairdressers have to wash the ugly people's hair, and the ugly hairdressers have to wash the attractive people's hair? never mind... i'm just silly today... more so than usual... :)
In article , [email] wrote:
That's insanely early! What time do you go to bed?
errr about 3-4am :)
In article , [email] wrote:
That explains it :)
Usually, when I'm up that late, I'm awake around noon (or at least in that zombie state that is niether awake nor asleep). That isn't that much later than 11am. More than 8hrs of sleep makes me tired, anyway.
I like sleeping a lot. It's better than being awake and having nothing to do. ;) I had to get up at some point in the early afternoon anyhow today, had a hairdresser appointment at 3.... I managed to miss the bus TWICE before getting there, incidentally.
In article ,
How do you come to that implication (I just don't understand it, that's all).
Sounds right to me.
I would agree with that.
I agree that a 90's perspective and a Biblical perspective are not compatible but I don't see how the Bible can be a product of a black and white era (it may very well have been a black and white era, I don't know, it was over before I was born). It's just that from what I've read of the Bible, it seems that the Bible has more grey in it than anything I've read. I'm saying that while the overall messages and morals of the Bible are inherently good, there seems to me to be parts that contradict some of those good morals.
Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert on the Bible. I also don't mean to put down anyone's faith in the Bible, it is a Good Book (despite they grey). I'm am just responding to this statement as objectively as I can.
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:52:05 GMT, Mike Quinn wrote:
Jesus sacrificed his life on this earth for the eternal lives of all souls.
Daria's sacrifice is her own popularity. Therefore, life=popularity in this metaphor.
There is NO way you are going to get me into a Biblical debate, and I think we are all happier for it.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
I am, for one. I'm happy alt.books.kurt-vonnegut hasn't had any RELIGIOUS flame wars recently-- the ones about Frank Zappa die down quicker.
Hey, want to have a flame war about Frank Zappa?
Dagny- cynic, general loony
http://urbanspacemen.arecool.net
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Dagny asked:
He named his kids funny!
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"All the Universe or Nothingness ... that is the question. Which shall it be?" (H. G. Wells)
In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
RELIGIOUS flame
Here, I'll start it...FRANK ZAPPA IS GOD!!!!
--.\\<-H--
Michelle Klein-Hass wrote:
Hmmm...I think he meant something more along the likes of a nasty, mud-slinging "discussion" on the intrinsic worth of...say..."Titties & Beer": insightful satire or shameless pandering?
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"The only completely consistent people are dead" --Aldous Huxley
N.P.:nothing
How dare you? Everyone knows Vivian Stanshall is god!
Dagny- cynic, general loony
http://urbanspacemen.arecool.net
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Dagny said:
And Monty Python were his Prophets ...
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"All the Universe or Nothingness ... that is the question. Which shall it be?" (H. G. Wells)
On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:58:00 -0700, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass), and it said:
NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! hE Is sAtAn!!!!! You will burn in hElLLLLLl! <Flame, flame, flame...> ;p
Dagny Scott asks:
Umm... Frank Zappa died for your sins?
Sorry, going back to work now.
In article ,
RELIGIOUS flame
Unless he's selling fish sticks we really don't care.
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:52:05 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Mike Quinn , and it said:
Case in point: the manner in which Abraham made his millions. He kept lying, claiming his wife was his sister because he was afraid they would kill him to get at her. When the local king would learn the truth, it would scare the shit out of him, the idea that one of his people, not knowing, would sleep with her, another man's wife, and bring God's wrath down upon them. The local king would then give Abraham a bunch of stuff to get him to leave. He did this at least twice, and ended up with a lot of things and livestock.
Disclaimer: But why listen to me? I'm just a pagan philosopher with a little knowledge of scripture.
In article , [email] (Tarvok) wrote:
Another case, in Judges, chapter 19, a father was entertaining a prominent Levite. A group of rowdies demand to see the Levite, apparently with the aim of beating him up. Instead, the father gave up his virgin daughter and his concubine to the men, who raped the two women repeatedly. The father's daughter was killed by the mob, and his concubine was badly injured. However, no divine condemnation followed this hideous case of child abuse.
Along the same lines, in Genesis 19:8, Lot gave his two daughters to a mob which wanted to have sex with a couple of male guests (who turn out to be angels) in the house. And Lot is considered the most righteous man in Sodom!
Is this morality? Does the god of the Bible countenance the sexual abuse of women? Apparently so. One wonders how this squares with "Family Values."
--.\\<-H--
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:20:06 GMT, [email] wrote:
I refuse to dignify and "Christ figure" discussiosn with the slightest response, let alone one with Tiffany.
That is, besides this response.
The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Sarra, rich, et al.
I have to admit, that at no time and in no way has thinking of Tiffany led any of my thoughts to a consideration of Christ. :-)
Could I just ask, as a relative newcomer, what the typical pro and con arguments are on this issue?
In Christ, Rev. Paul L. Vasquez.
In article ,
Christ
one
suggestions?
Tiffany led
Several months ago there was a thread (or maybe more than one) during a discussion of literature (yeah, we do that here in A.T.D.), something along the lines that all you had to do to get a grade in a literature class was find the Christ figure. Apparently students of literature are able to find some of the most absurd Christ figures. Case in point: Tiffany.
I remember seeing a television program a few months ago about "Moby Dick" in which one of the experts was pointing out the sexual connection between Ishmael and Queequeg. I think they even got to the whale being a phallic symbol or something when I turned it off. Maybe I'm just too obtuse or too innocent but I just don't see it. So I guess that's what's involved in studying literature, sex and Christ. That must be why I never did well in those courses.
In article ,
How did I miss this thread?
In article ,
led
I have been known to say "Oh, Christ!" when Tiffany starts that drone of hers. Apart from that I agree with you completely.
In article , [email] wrote:
I don't see how Tiffany can be considered Christ-like. All I think we've seen of her would be her ass-kissing strategy towards Quinn and Sandi - it's hardly Christ-like.
[email] wrote:
Hmmm...let's see...
Christ: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Tiffany: "Oh no. Wind. Hair."
I can see how they get mixed up all the time!
In article , [email] wrote:
Christ
If you mean as in "Christ, what is wrong with that girl?", then yes.
--- John Berry
[email] wrote:
Well, I go away for just a few days....
Actually, this was more of a contest between Chris Majors and me that sometimes spilled over onto a.t.d. (Mostly because we were both lit majors in college, and lit geeks in general.) It's supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek exercise-- to see just how far you're willing to go out on a liimb in order to attempt to prove an unproveable theory-- none of the characters make very good Christ figures-- that's what makes it a challenge. (Especially for those of us who almost have 160 IQs. <g>) Don't any of you remember having to read "Ozymandias" (or any other piece of literature) and then having to write a page or two on what it was *really* about, using the text as your evidence? It's that sort of an exercise.
Of course Tiffany isn't a Christ figure-- but then again, neither is Snoopy, yet someone has written a book claiming that Charles M.Schultz's insurance-peddling beagle can be compared to the Son of God. (Which book we have also previously discussed on this NG.)
Remember folks-- it's only a game...
rich.
"Unethical is only two letters away from ethical..." -- Paul Michael Mercurio
In article , [email] wrote:
To all the Christians with their panties in a bunch:
This thread is about the *literary* use of Christ-like figures, not whether or not Tiffany is in any way shape or form *like* the historical Yehoshua ben Yussef, OR the Jesus Christ of myth and legend and religious dogma.
This is a College English-major kind of exercise, with tongue locked firmly in cheek. "Find the Christ-figure" is a common English Lit assignment, and many, including our friend Paperpusher, have observed that the game can be played with just about any work of literature and that just about any character can be used with the game.
Thankyoudrivethrough, --.\\<-H--
Woah!
This wasn't to be some hideous anti-religious post just an indle inquiry into something that's been bugging my neuron space for a couple of weeks. Y'know just trying to brighten my ho-hum life with a little illusion.
I had my own theory as to Tiffany as a Christ-like figure in that maybe she was comparable to Jesus after he'd just got back from his forty days in the wilderness and was probably feeling a little spacy and out of sorts after his encounter with Satan/Sandi. Surely someone, somewhere can do better than that!
Sar
In article , [email] wrote:
Never underestimate the power of Usenet to blow things up in the wrong directions. I once started a thread about perceived stereotypes of certain kinds of Role-Playing Gamers, and it ended up as a flame war about the meaning of the word "Angst".
While Jesus may have been out of sorts after 40 days in the desert, after a few days recovering He'd have been back to normal. Tiffany, however, is like that _all_the_time_. O_O
In article , [email] wrote:
inquiry
maybe
days
I can't imagine Tiffany being at all disturbed by an encounter with Satan though. She simply acquiesces to whoever has the greater influence. Her only reaction to hell would probably be something along the lines of, "If I'd known I was going to be running around in a fiery pit I wouldn't have worn my good sneakers."
Her only reaction to hell would probably be something along
fiery
Or "Oh no. Brimstone. Hair."
Sarra