But not until mid-April though. I'm just so excited about going, that I thought I'd break the news now :) Perhaps it is as dull as people say it is, and perhaps staying only a week may not be enough (or more than enough), but dammit, it's LONDON! You can't tell how long I've always wanted to visit the UK. Ever since I've started on those damn Enid Blyton books I've had a hankering like you wouldn't believe. Of course, the UK is probably nothing like what the books make it out to be, and I was only a kid when I started reading those things (Those books probably scarred me for life now that I think about it. All the talking toys and immature children... *shudder*. After reading those books I swore I'd never send my child to a boarding school).
Besides, I'd love to poke around London Underground and see if it's really as Gaiman made it out to be... although I couldn't possibly see anything of significance considering I'd be part of London Above :) [1]. And I might even spot John Constantine's apartment eh? [2] *grin*
Anyway I'm just wondering if any of you UK folks could recommend me a few touristy things to do while in London, as well as any touristy spots to visit. Any information would help, really :)
Cheerily, Nicole Lee
[1] Big "Neverwhere" ref [2] Those familiar with Hellblazer would know who I'm talking about
London is nothing like an Enid Blyton book. We don't go round saying, "Anyone for tennis?" and sneaking out of dormitories for midnight feasts. However it does rain a lot in London, especially in April (hence April showers) but I think there's something poetic about London in the rain. Lots of good things to do as well: the Tate Gallery, the Victoria & Albert museum, Greenwich Market, taking a cruise down the Thames to Hampton Court Palace and getting lost in the maze, plus a ton of fantastic shops if you're into the comsumer thang, cheap cinema tickets on Mondays and fantastic royal parks with bandstands and boating lakes and ducks and stuff. If you want to know more places to vist, e-mail me.
*laugh* Oh heavens, that brings me back. All those gawdawful stories about playing lacrosse and kooky French teachers.. I didn't even know what lacrosse was! I remember thinking to myself, "What kinda game uses a net to pass balls??" All the same, I remember being rather obsessed with those books. I even have the entire collection of Malory Towers and the St. Clare Twins. Gosh, how my reading tastes changed over the years...
I like rain :) Nice and cooling. It also matches my disposition most of the time :)
Holy cow, that's a lot of places! Something tells me I need to plan some kind of itinerary...
It's ok if it's summer and the sun's trying to come out, but otherwise I think rain is a pain, except for that it keeps the crowds at bay so you can walk around without bumping into people.
I think I'd avoid the Tower of London (they admit that they charge extortionate prices purely because tourists consider them a must-see and will pay anything. And I don't fancy the Millennium Dome myself, though apparently there's a great sculpture exhibition outside it (biggest in Europe or something), though I haven't found out yet whether it's free or if you have to buy a Dome ticket. Given that they've given this aspect of the experience zero advertising I'm hopeful that this means it's free.
The Whitechapel gallery is also free and nearly always has really cool exhibitions on, in fact I think they tend to have better stuff than the Tate etc. who go more for big name drongos.
And always drink at Sam Smiths pubs in the centre as the beer is good and it's *much* cheaper than the extortionate prices most pubs in central London charge.
There must be something else worth doing in London, but what with pubs and art galleries I've never got round to finding out what.
I think London in the rain is probably more poetic for people from Arizona on holiday than Londoners since they hardly ever have any rain in Arizona they're like "wow... rain..." like all these people in the south who say "ooh, lucky" when I told them it snowed. Yeah, right, you don't have to drive in it. or shovel it. or ANYTHING! You just go "aww... snow... pretty..." because you've only seen it on TV.
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Well, this is one Southerner who never says that. Believe me. I've lived in NJ and IL, and even before last week I'd had my fill of snow for a goodly long time.
Imagine, if you will, a place that never gets more than 2 inches of snow a year. Now, try to imagine what sore of snow removal equipment they have there. Now, imagine a blizzard hits this place (after 3 other winter storms had just hit in the past week) and dumps 20 inches of snow all over the area. Believe me-- nobody around here wants ANY more snow. Blecch. I still haven't had any mail since last Monday-- the postal truck can't get to my house, cos he doesn't have 4WD. We're all counting the days till we get good ol' fashioned hotter'n hell heat again. Ah....
rich.
Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.
It did that last summer :) The sucky part is Burger King has no air conditioning... where I was six hours... after that I went downtown with Betsey and Anthony while we all sat inside the tobacco shop because they had air conditioning. I even bought a Diet Coke and a Mountain Dew so we weren't, y'know, totally just taking up their space :)
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Blecch. It's pretty until it gets covered in a 1/4" thick sheet of ice. Then it's pretty damn useless. And then there's the lovely gray sludge on the side of all of the roads... that's *really* attractive. Give me summer every time. ;-)
Indeed, it's so versatile it partially melts during the day then refreezes at night so coming into university is like cycling on an ice rink. You're faced with the interesting dilemma of using side streets which have no traffic but are totally iced up and main streets whose ice has been broken up by traffic but where if you do come off, you're likely to be hit by a car.
It does look pretty though :-)
Mike- Who's elbow still sometime hurts from the last time he came off, three weeks ago.
I am a Londoner and I really don't mind the rain as long as I have my umbrella with me and as long as it's not that torrential rain that you only get in NY and pop promos. The rain in London softens all the hard edges, plus it makes the flowers grow!
And I'd venture that of all of the UK, London is the very least like those books.
It's the best way for getting around in London. You can buy a weekly ticket, I beleive, which may work out cheaper, as well as saving hassle queueing for tickets.
London is probably the UK's most internationalised city, so you'll see a lot of things to do that you'd see in any other Western capital. If you crave a McDonald's, you'll find one.
If I had a week in the UK, and I'd chosen to spend all of it in London (if you think you can detect a subtext: well, yes, I wouldn't spend the whole time in London), then I'd try to concentrate on those things I could do or see *only* in the UK or only in London.
Pub meals and real ale would be on my list. Beware that some tourist guides take payment from the establishments they recommend. Camra[1], a consumer pressure group, publishes guides whose entries are voted on by members at local branch meetings. Good Beer Guide 2000 (listing 5000 pubs): URL: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=1852491590&DB=220 Good Pub Food (600 pubs noted for excellent home cooking): URL: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=1852491515&DB=220 Room at The Inn (accommodation guide): URL: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=1852491507&DB=220
The Millenium Dome is open, they say only for the year 2000. It's had mixed press. It strikes me as expensive. URL: http://www.dome2000.co.uk The Press Association have a virtual dome tour at URL: http://www.pa.press.net/news/backgrounder/dome/
There's a wealth of historic properties to visit. Many of them are run by English Heritage and The National Trust, and overseas visitors can buy short-term passes that give admission to any EH or any NT property. This can save money compared to buying admission tickets at each property. URL: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/ URL: http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/
It's a long time since I lived in London, so I won't recommend anything from personal experience in case it's changed since then and I unwittingly mislead you. I now live about 120 miles drive from London; I rarely visit it.
The British Tourist Authority website is at URL: http://www.visitbritain.com/
Have fun, Nicole, and don't be surprised if people affect a French accent when they say your name, or ask you, "Where's Papa?" 8-)
Martin.
[1] The Campaign for Real Ale. URL: http://www.camra.org.uk/
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:37:02 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:
Hmmm.. my guess is that I might go to Birmingham for abit, 'cause my friend goes to the university there, and I might even hop over to Manchester 'cause another friend lives there.. But I really haven't made any definite plans about that yet. So far, London's the place I'll be stayin most of the time.
I'd like to try the fish and chips wrapped in paper.. I heard they put loads of vinegar on 'em. I'd also like to try a bit of English food, even if they've had a pretty nasty reputation.. Such as Bubble and Squeak, Bangers and Mash, Steak and Kidney Pie, Toad in the Hole, etc. Interesting names, you gotta admit :)
Ale is all well and good, but I'm not a real big alcohol fan. I'll give it a try though, if it's that good :)
Hmm.. that doesn't sound too hot. If it's anything like the stadiums I've been to, it's nothing to shout about. They made quite a big deal about it during the NY celebrations though..
Ooooooh, that is interesting indeed. I shall have to check some of those out. I wonder if there are any literature-related sites as well.. like This is Where Shakespeare Slept In, or something similarly gimmicky.
I doubt they'd do that once they see my very Asian face :) I just hope they don't make silly remarks like "Oh do you use a wok while cooking?" just like some Americans have made...
Neither are cities renowned for scenic beauty, though they're in reach of fine countryside (Manchester's near the Peak National Park); but that's not the point, of course, if you're visiting friends. 8-)
Add Game Pie (Mmmmm, game pie </Homer>).
You'll identify from that guide I recommended which pubs offer traditional English foods. You'll pay less for the same meal in a pub than you would in a restaurant. But you'd be wise to consult a reputable guidebook, or go by personal recommendation, since some pubs' idea of pub food is to microwave stuff from the freezer centre, and serve it with the sort of tasteless, gassy beer that would make a Camra member shudder. I've had some horrible pub meals when I've just taken pot luck, so now my copy of _Good Pub Food_ goes in the bag wherever I travel!
Britain has hundreds of different real ales (that's not hyperbole: literally hundreds), many brewed by small independent craft breweries, all of them brewed using only natural ingredients and traditional methods, with a huge range of styles and flavours. You'll find something to please your palate. But we also have well-advertised, mass-produced, factory beers too: that's why I buy the Good Beer Guide *every* year so I can find pubs serving a well-kept pint of real ale. </beer_bore_mode>
I just thought of another excellent book. Useless as a guide-book, but perhaps useful as cultural orientation. It's the travelogue _Notes from a Small Island_ by the American author Bill Bryson, describing a journey he made through Great Britain. He's a really good writer, and some of his accounts are laugh-out-loud funny. http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=0552996009&DB=220
Be aware that "Asian" doesn't mean the same in Britian as it does in the US!
You're welcome to email me, Nicole, with any further questions, if you fear that this topic (or more exactly, my contributions to it) might start to bore the rest of the newsgroup!
Bryson also wrote a very good book called "The Lost Contintent," about his travels in the US after about a 20-year absence. Funny, and kind of sad, too, but a good book nonetheless.
rich
Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
According to Darcus Howe, Birmingham is America. It's sort of a big concrete jungle where people go to bowling alleys and do line dancing. I must admit if I was visiting the UK, Birmingham would be on my "must miss" list. But I daresay someone who lives there might know of something worth doing.
They don't wrap them in old newspaper any more, sadly (hygiene laws), but they do still wrap them in paper. Is that an odd way to serve food? I've never thought about it before, it seems totally natural. It's the styrofoam packages at burger places that strike me as weird and unnatural.
Best to put it on yourself, as they tend to be skimpy with the salt and vinegar, it tends to be a cursory shake. But fish'n'chips is certainly the classic English dish (though it's claimed that curries now outsell it). It tends to be expensive in London though, it's better and cheaper in the North. Supposedly the best fish & chip shop is Harry Ramsden's in Yorkshire, which I believe has now opened branches across Britain and the rest of the world. I actually grew up near the original one, it was kind of weird, they had a huge eat-in section with chandeliers, even though they only sold fish & chips.
When you see pictures of it, it looks quite small and ordinary, but it's actually enormous. Probably it would have been better if they'd left it empty though, so visitors could just admire it's palacious interior without any distractions. Apparently you could fit four football pitches inside or something. I can't remember how big a football pitch is though. I hate football.
Better than that, they've rebuilt the round wooden theatre his plays were originally staged in, back in Elizabethan times. If you're a Shakespeare fan you really must go see a play there. It's in London. (Stratford upon Avon make a big thing about being Shakespeare's birthplace, but in fact he lived and worked in London.)
I have to say that I was disappointed when I had fish'n'chips in the Harry Ramsden's branch in Merry Hill Centre near Dudley. But bear in mind that having lived for nine years in Grimsby and Immingham, where the fish you're served was most likely landed that very morning, I'd got used to mouthwateringly good fish. Now I'm living inland, I'm getting accustomed to being disappointed by the fish: so much, that I'll more often get pie & chips from the chippy sooner than fish. I admit that Grimsby spoiled me! 8-)
Oh, and for a sit-down fish & chip meal, Steel's Corner House in Cleethorpes is hard to beat. Margaret Street chippy in Immingham and the one on Pasture Street in Grimsby served takeaway fish'n'chips that were, in my view, far better than what I had in Harry Ramsden's.
Can anyone recommend a chippy in London? It's be a shame for Nicole to sample anything less than a good fish'n'chip meal.
URL: http://shakespeares-globe.org/
And if Shakespeare's too modern, you could visit Canterbury cathedral, following in the footsteps (well, a bus or a train might be better) of Chaucer's pilgrims.
Lady Interference wrote in message news:[email]...
pure
Yuck. Blechh. Ugh.
There'd be harder words said if a revolting parody of fish'n'chips like that were served in Grimsby. At least to anyone from a fishing family: they don't risk the perils of the North Sea to harvest the fish so tbey can be transformed into -- well, I can't find the right word.
It's no wonder some people have a poor view of British food if they've sampled badly prepared meals such as the one you had. Next time you come, Diane, try again, please, at a good chippy or a pub renowned for good home cooking!
And btw, congrats on your HBI essay. It's great. I've never been fully comfortable with women who use the "simpering girly" mode of relating to men, and your essay is so refreshing.
If the comedy show "Smack The Pony"[1] makes it across the pond, look out for it. I think you'd enjoy it. It might be a must-see for Daria & Jane, and Quinn would find it disturbing. Last night's ended with a great parody of girl bands. I'm beginning to think it's as good as, or perhaps even better than, "Goodness Gracious Me."[2]
To add to my previous reply, it was announced on the news today that a big Shakespeare exhibition has just opened at the rebuilt Globe Theatre. I don't know if it will still be there in April but I imagine so.
Another thing to visit is the London Eye (aka Millennium Wheel) which finally opened today to rave reviews. (I was supposed to open on New Year's Eve but technical problems emerged at the last minute.) It's a giant 20-storey-high ferris wheel near the Houses of Parliament which gives views of up to 25 miles.
Thing about this is the British population seems to be avoiding it in droves. It's getting about 6000 visitors a day but needs to average 20000 to break even. They're currently having a massive advertising campaign to drum up interest but I doubt if it'll work.
It seems people either love it or hate it, there's no in-between. On BBC2's Late Review, Tony Parsons loved it and Germaine Greer hated it, so I suspect I'd probably hate it.
Germaine Greer said people would be better off going to the Science Museum, which does all the hands-on exhibition stuff much better. The big museums in South Kensington (West London) -- the Science Museum, Natural History Museum, and V&A, are definitely must-sees for London. They're enormous, they're very old, and yet they're also bang up to date. You could easily spend your entire week just looking round those three museums.
The Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew are also very good, but whether they're any better than Golden Gate Park in San Francisco is debatable. I don't think there are any racoons or hummingbirds anyway, though there are some huge Victorian glass houses full of tropical stuff.
London swings. I would suggest Nicole, that when you are in the airport that you immediately get a passport-size picture taken in a photobooth (or bring one with you if you have extras) and immediately purchase a weekly travelcard for at least zones 1 and 2 (I don't know where you'll be staying ... you may want to get a zone that's farther out ... but zones 1 and 2 are where 90% of the tourist stuff is). Then, immediately go to a magazine vendor and get that week's edition of TIME OUT which will tell you what is going on in town. And you ... *must* ... see at least one stage play ... London theatre is unequalled.
There is also an annual of seasonal TIME OUT which gives more general info but not everyone might have that (though you'd think they would at an airport).
LOL I'd forgotten about those! 8) 8) 8)
Yah Nicole, if you want any more chat from an American who lived in London for a while, feel free to e-mail me privately.
Oh and hey, if you don't mind tourist traps and wall-to-wall packed people, visit Camden market on a weekend.
Or take a look now on the Web at http://www.timeout.co.uk
The London evening newspaper (London Evening Standard) has a Website at http://www.thisislondon.co.uk - lots of reviews of plays and musicals in there.
There's a London FAQ (a bit tongue in cheek but worth a look) published by the uk.local.london newsgroup - I'll email you a copy direct if you like.
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:06:35 -0800, Mikel Midnight wrote:
Mmmm, point taken. I enjoy theater immensely whenever I manage to catch a few shows.. It never fails to amaze me. So far I've watched Hello Dolly, Phantom of the Opera, and Rent. I look forward to seeing a stage play or two in London.
Hey, the hotel we stayed at was a short distance away from Camden Market...isn't that supposed to have an antiques sale regularly every early Saturday morning or something? LOL, good thing I didn't go there then.... :)
And probably the place least worth visiting... As cities go, Edinburgh is probably the best one. Other than that, I would go to somewhere like Snowdonia or the Lake District or the Scottish Isles. Bit of a cliche admittedly, but that's only because everyone knows they're great places to go (take crowd repellent).
Only when it's late at night. You can see mice running about in the pits between the tracks sometimes. There's some interesting new stations on the Jubilee Line extension that's just opened.
Be prepared for a shock though, public transport is about five times as expensive as in America. A one day ticket will cost around �4 ($6) (more if you want to travel before 9:30 am). For any return journey of more than about two miles you need to pay the above fare.)
Just don't get drawn into one of his stories. Guest characters have a tendency to get killed, or worse ...
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
On 31 Jan 2000 04:09:20 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
Noddy, the Five (Famous), the other Five (Investigators and a dog), Secret Seven, Malory Towers, St. Clare Twins, and a host of other books and series that I can't recall now. Those books basically dictated my childhood.. I'm not too sure if that's a good thing (especially considering how Blyton books are now being dubbed sexist and racist and are banned in several places.. I doubt she had those things in mind when she wrote those books though..)
Well, Dream survived it.. then again, he's immortal :)
It's not that far off. Often when an Underground station become redundant they simply turned off the lights and sealed up the entrance. You can sometimes see these darkened ghost platforms whizz past. There's numerous tunnels that have been abandoned and there are people who are into illicit exploration of the network. Bit like potholing I suppose, except with the added buzz from the risk of getting arrested. But it's easy to see where Gaiman got his inspiration from.
The Soane museum in Lincoln's Inn is very cool and very wierd. It's the house of the architect who designed the Bank of England, he left if and it's contents to the nation with the proviso that it wasn't to be altered in *any* way. It is very hard to describe and very hard to explain, especially as I'm sure they didn't have LSD in the 1830's. Open every day but guided tour is only on Saturday's and it's best to go on a sunny day so all the lighting effects from the carefully placed stained glass and mirrors can be seen properly.
Also if you're in Bloomsbury, say to see the British Museum or visit Forbidden Planet. University College is about 10 minutes walk up Gower Street. It's significant because (1) I went there :-) and (2) It has the embalmed body of it's founder Jeremy Bentham in a display case in the entrance hall.
I suddenly rembered, after I'd sent my earlier reply, that I used to get great benefit from a book that listed stuff you could do in London for free, or for pennies. IIRC it was published by Nicolson's.
I just did a search to see if it's still published, and I found this: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=1873721315&DB=220
This one's not publsihed by Nicolson's, but I imagine it's the same sort of thing.
Another afterthought! Not long ago, I enjoyed a visit to the Cabinet War Rooms, the underground complex that formed Winston Churchill's Operational HQ during World War Two. URL: http://www.iwm.org.uk/cabinet/cabinet.htm
Anyways, I never really had an antiquated view of London...when I was little I was like, "Oooh, it's that large city in that place where The Kinks come from!!!", and then as I grew older it grew infinitely cooler because of its punk influence, and later because of its reputation as a haven for Duran Duran fans, and now that I've actually been there it's all those things and SO MUCH MORE. It is MY FAVORITE PLACE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and I would give my right leg to be able to move there. The architecture was so much different than I've been brought up around, the Underground has got to be the best public transportation system around, anyplace you can't go to via the Underground you can most certainly go to via a taxi (so you don't need a car to get around), Leicester Square is super-vibrant and has tons of street performers you can see for free (or for a nominal tip, depending on how good the performer(s) is/are), I wish WISH WISH I could've taken better advantage of all the cool record and memorabilia shops in Piccadilly Circus that I'd heard about prior to taking off, Virgin Megastore kicks major booty as far as mainstream stores go, if you're like me and not culinarily daring you can find the old standbys KFC, Burger King, and Pizza Hut, or if you want to expand your culinary horizons this place is restaurant-crazy, you *cannot* leave London without spending some time in a real pub, Wednesday night Westminster Abbey (sp?) opens up its doors for about an hour for picture-taking inside (normally you can't take pictures inside), so DO go there (it is the most spectacular worshipping place I've ever seen, and I think at the same time the resident choir practices and that practice is IMPOSSIBLE to miss, they're that incredibly good), there are tons of clubs for every musical like, there's a lot of movie theaters, as well as regular theaters, I found everyone incredibly nice, it's supersafe to go around, even at midnight, Sainsbury's...god, I can't believe I still miss that place...as well as regular street grocer's...OMG, there are so many really good things about London and I wanna go back now...I wanna make it out to Battersea to visit Privacy Studios, aka Warren Cuccurullo's home, and hope to God Nick Rhodes is there...I wanna take advantage of all those really cool little memorabilia shops...I wanna meet all the Londoner Duranies and hopefully get together with them to make the journey to Birmingham to make it to a UK Duranie party...I wanna do so many other things...*sigh*...I think my parents would like the countryside surrounding London...(getting ideas)...