A Good Movie

Has anyone here seen "Welcome to the Dollhouse"? The lead character could be Daria if Daria was a semi-psychotic prone to excessive histerics. It's good dark comedy, y'all should see it, y'hear? ;-)

Arthur Rimbaud said:

I liked Dawn from "Welcome to the Dollhouse." Major difference between her and Daria is that Daria is a lot more self-confident. (And older, of course). Daria would never have let people push her around like Dawn was being pushed around in WttD. That's why Dawn's story was a lot darker than Daria's looks like being.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"All the Universe or Nothingness ... that is the question. Which shall it be?" (H. G. Wells)

Arthur Rimbaud wrote:

     Missed it. I am interested in possibly seeing it one day, though. I've
been told it's really depressing, though. But considering my high school
experiences, I'll bet I can relate. >|-{�>
     The last film I saw that I hadn't seen before is "Nights of Cabiria",
which was on the same channel (Bravo) that showed "Welcome To The Dollhouse".
Oh, and it's a really, really good movie. Kinda sad, though.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"The world of the heterosexual is a sick and boring life." --Edith Massey

N.P.:nothing

Sorry if this is really old...

I'd wanted to see "Welcome to the Dollhouse" when it was out in theaters, but I don't exactly remember why I forgot to do so. *Was* it shown on "Bravo"? Darn. The lead character, the one played by Heather Mazzarato, seems to be quite real...more real than, say, Christina Ricci's character in "The Opposite of Sex" (then again if I were Christina Ricci's mother I'd lock her up and ground her for AGES, AND wash her mouth out with soap REPEATEDLY...if I were Heather Mazzarato's mother, though, I'd not be QUITE NEARLY that strict as she behaves MUCH more maturely...it's all up to how the actor is in real life, I guess).

There I go again, off course.... LOL

(just wait till I catch up with you guys on "Daria" viewings...just wait!)

Diane

Having now seen "Welcome to the Dollhouse", I can recommend it completely! The scenes with the "Quinn" character are hilarious, and... well I don't want to give the plot away. Daria looks so much like Dawn that I wonder if the show's creators were inspired by this movie. However, there are many differences -- Dawn is subjected to much more cruelty than Daria, as if a younger Daria were "swept into an incredibly savage universe".

Find someone who gets the Independent Film Channel on cable or dish, and record this film! It's going to be shown again in a week and a half; here are the dates and times, in the *Pacific* time zone on one cable system. Check the schedule for your system to get the right times!

   Wed 07/28/99
     5:00pm  IFC
     8:15pm  IFC

   Thu 07/29/99
     1:15am  IFC

<LI><a href="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114906">Welcome to the Dollhouse (1995)</a>

I worship "Welcome to the Dollhouse." It is an amazing movie but I don't think that Dawn is anything like Daria at all. Perhaps they are both outcasts but in a sense Daria chooses to be an outcast while there is no hope for Dawn. Some personality characteristics of Daria are that she is cynical, intelligent, opiniated......Dawn is not that intelligent adn would give anything to be cool. I had to analyze Welcome to the Dollhouse for a class I took. The gerat thing about that film is that you can't help but dislike her. She is as cruel to people as they are to her. How many times did she insult her only friend? She was stupid and irritating and hypocritcal. Daria is the greatest character in the world. That is all.

Dear Donkey,

Dawn's basic problem in a word was "self-confidence". All through the movie she lets people abuse her because she lacks the confidence in herself which would give her the courage to stand up to them. Daria wouldn't have stood for any of this treatment for an instant; a few cutting remarks would have sent the tormentors reeling away in confusion and embarassment.

Because Dawn lacks self-confidence, she is unable to stand up for her choices in life, including her friends. She has no faith in her boyfriend (who, notice, she acquired basically by good fortune, he was a dysfunctional person who liked her but could only express it by threatening to "rape" her and then winding up treating her nicely), thus she loses him. She takes out her hostility on her only other friend, and loses him too.

I don't dislike Dawn, I pity her. The poor choices she makes are the direct consequence of her lack of self-confidence, and she pays for each and every one of them: she loses her boyfriend, suffers humiliation due to her foolish crush on a totally unworthy guy, and alienates her best friend.

Contrasting with Daria ...

Daria would never have let herself get into any of Dawn's situations, superficially similar as some of Daria's may seem. Daria would never have let anyone as obnoxious as Dawn's boyfriend ever think he had a chance with her; if she liked him for some reason she would not betray him as Dawn does in the movie. Daria has a "cute" younger sister, but handles her easily most of the time. Daria's best friend is also a misfit, but Daria would never vent her anger on her in such a cruel fashion. Daria has a crush on an older guy, but Trent is a nice guy, while Dawn's love object was a shallow creep, with no appeal beyond greater age and good looks.

Daria is a stronger person than Dawn. Why? One might say "intelligence", but Dawn is not stupid (and remember Dawn is younger in the movie than Daria is when we first meet her with B&B, let alone when she oves to Lawndale).

A clue might be in Daria's parents. Jake is an idealist and Helen a strong role model; both of them basically love Daria, even though they are often involved in their own lives. Daria loves herself, and hence can defend herself and love other people.

By contrast Dawn's parents are horribly conventional and regard Dawn as basically an embarassment between their talented older child and their cute younger one. Dawn has never really been loved; and thus has not learned to love herself. She is not worthy in her own mind of defense, nor is anyone who likes her.

Daria is destined for achievement and probably happiness, because she will insist on being treated well by others or not dealing with them at all. Dawn, on the other hand, is likely to develop into the sort of girl who not only lets people abuse her, but thrives on abuse and is hostile to those who treat her well. Sad for Dawn ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

True, but it's also the case that she's in a position where she's never been able to develop social skills. And if you don't have them at the beginning of your teens and find yourself in the outsider role, you will never get a chance to develop any (which only leads to more persecution, a very vicious cycle).

However, Daria's life is simpler than Dawn's. Daria is a cartoon character; a lot of the situations she works her way out of so easily aren't things she would be able to in real life. Sadly, Dawn's life is much more realistic than Daria's and fits more people's lives.

On the other hand. things often improve once one gets to college. Maybe she'll be a film-maker (I say this after seeing a photo of the WttD creator and being frightened by how much he physically resembled that actress who played Dawn ;).

Mikel Midnight said:

SPOILERS for "Welcome to the Dollhouse"
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That was my point.

My other point is that there's more than one "outsider role". Daria is a charismatic iconoclast; Dawn is a pathetic victim.

There's never any shortage of nasty buggers willing to persecute. And in Dawn's case, her emotional reaction to the persecution alienates and weakens those who would ally with her, which is also a vicious and all too common cycle.

I don't agree with you that "Dollhouse" is more realistic than "Daria". Both are stylized social satires. The mere fact that the first is live action and the second animated is a matter of medium, not message.

It takes common sense and courage and strength and confidence to be a successful non-conformist. Daria has these qualities, and as a result people respect her even though they do not understand her (on the crudest level, would-be bullies are informed by her expressions and posture that she would not tamely submit to abuse, and thus seek easier prey). Dawn lacks these qualities, and as a result is abused.

Which "situations" has Daria "worked her way out of so easily" which she wouldn't "be able to in real life?" Daria doesn't get into trouble then facilely get out of it; she has the strength and common sense not to get into trouble in the first place.

Do you think that Daria would have gotten into any of Dawn's situations? She would have met the threat of rape with a well-expressed counter-threat. If she did have a boyfriend and he was accused of something she would come to him FIRST to find out what happened. She never would have gotten a crush on a scumbag to begin with. She would have been verbally responsive when the other girl was picking on her. And she never would have taken out her stress on Jane the way Dawn did on her best friend.

How realistic were Dawn's situations anyway? The bit where the guy threatens to rape her, she goes along with it, and he instead of raping her treats it as a first date (a "rape-date", I guess, to distinguish it from "date-rape") seems very contrived to me. The lunatic who kidnaps her sister but instead of hurting her treats her kindly is also an odd contrivance (and one conceptually similar to the first one).

The crush on the creep could happen, but was wholly under Dawn's control. Likewise, she did not have to turn on her own best friend and abuse him. Finally, the harassment by the other girl was realistic, but it's hardly the sort of thing Daria would have trouble dealing with.

One of the reasons why Daria as a character is so popular with fans (whom I suspect are mostly non-conformist themselves) is that Daria shows how to be a non-conformist and still be respectable and respected. This is precisely why she is such an admired character.

As for the "plausibility" of a Daria-like vs. a Dawn-like character, let me point out that I *know* at least one girl who is VERY much like Daria ... and I've known all too many girls who are, sadly, very much like Dawn.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

I actually had a lot to say about everyone's remarks concerning this whole dawn vs daria debate but Jordan appears to have taken care of everything. You responded just as I would down to every last detail. Thanks for saving me some time.