I've been intrested in eastern religion for awhile now, and I was wondering if any of you thing that daria might have a spiritual side. I don't neccessarily mean christian fundamentalism but maybe something like non-dualist hinduism maybe a meditation class or two. Or do you see her taking some sorta Bertrand Russell skeptical stance.
ClockworkPear
christian fundamentalism isn't spirituality, it's bullshit and voluntary ignorance. no way. :-)
i think she'd be skeptical. she doesn't seem to subscribe to that sort of world view, and i think meditation would be a bit out of character for her.
As a Christian Fundamentalist, I am highly offended by that statement. You probably know as much about Christianity as you know about the Urdu language.
On 03 Feb 2000 23:32:22 GMT, [email] (Andrews522) wrote:
Funny you should say that, considering it's what most nonFundie christains say about the fundamentalists...
christian fundamentalism, as in "evolution isn't true, it's just a theory" etc? if that's the sort of person you are, then i have no problem with offending you. if not, then the statement was not directed at you and i'm sorry to have offended you.
On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:47:30 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
lol, it IS just a theory, so I don't know why you are focusing on that single aspect of chrisitan "fundamentalism", when there are a lot more that you could probably take a stronger stance against.
Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
so's gravity.
On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:24:16 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Gravity - the idea that masses attract based on their mass.
Cept that I recently saw an infomercial for a book called "Gravity is a Push" or somesuch, which argues that what we call gravity is based on repulsion rather than attraction...
never heard that.. i saw a spoof website somewhere once claiming that gravity didn't exist, and that things fell to the ground because the (flat) earth was moving upwards through space. :-)
endless, nameless of M.U.F.F.I.N.S. writes:
It would have to be not just moving at a constant speed but accelerating or it wouldn't catch up with objects when you let go of them.
This is similar to a theory someone suggested recently that gravity is due to everything in the universe constantly expanding. In this case you don't need a flat earth, as it's moving out in all directions.
-Shez.
yes. :-)
surely this would mean that the space between objects is also expanding at the same rate...? *confused once again*
endless, nameless of M.U.F.F.I.N.S. writes:
I don't know, it wasn't a very clearly expressed theory. I doubt it would work if you looked at it closely. Either that or it wouldn't express anything noticeably different from how things are now.
-Shez.
On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:20:45 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Bah. All they're really saying is that the laws of gravity are wrong, not that 'gravity' doesn't exist.
Centrifugal force doesn't 'exist' either, ya know...
Glenn Olson wrote:
(perks up) Yeah, because isn't it supposed to be more of a measure of perception on the part of the viewer or something? I know we studied it as part of perception instead of raw, consistently measurable data. Not saying it's not necessary or anything, just studying it as an observation.
LI
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 01:49:32 GMT, Lady Interference wrote:
It's actually an effect of inertia and circular velocity. It 'exists' in that it's percieved, and can possibly be calculated; but it's not actually a force, rather it's the sum of other forces.
EVERYTHING in biology is a theory: the vast spectrum of life is far too great to have laws, as you can in abstracted circumstances like Physics.
yes...
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Physics is just a theory too, we don't know for sure the laws of physics are the same all the time or everywhere. Maybe they are different on the other side of Jupiter or late on Fridays afternoons when no-one of note is doing any scientific experiments. (That would explain a lot, come to think of it.)
-Shez.
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:00:02 +0000, Shez wrote:
Nope. Physics is the study of theories. Just like theology isn't a religion, but rather the study of religions.
Someone should propose that the laws of physics are different on the surface of Mars as an explanation for their constant failures...
Someone who isn't afraid of being laughed out of the room, that is...
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:00:02 +0000, Shez wrote:
The assumption that this doesn't happen is known as 'the principle of mediocrity'.
Ah, there speaks a someone who definitely isn't an experimental scientist. In my experience, experiments have a strong tendency to only start working on Friday afternoons, after not working at anytime during the previous week. Usually just at the time you are ready to give up and go drink a lot of beer, but now have to stay and complete the experiment.
A corollary to this says that you will complete the experiment just at the right time so that you can miss the last tube train home.
In article ,
I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but wasn't the theory of evolution proven to be true when looking at species with short life cycles (relative to our own), like fruit flies and moths. THat wouldn't prove that humans evolved from ape-like creatures, but it would certainly make it easier to swallow that possibility.
But when you really think about it (and this is a little bit of a tangent here) theoretical science, itself, can be thought of as a religion. Scientists, more or less, either believe or try to refute theories based on their faith in them.
Mike Quinn [email]
why not? ;-)
evolution can be observed directly in fruit flies, bacteria, etc, yes. microevolution has been proven, and macroevolution is the logical extension of microevolution so there's little argument there.
science is self-correcting, unlike religion. scientists may try to refute things they don't believe in and prove things they believe in, but if their work is biased someone else will do it properly later.
On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:10:28 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
<shrug> The same can be said of religion. The only difference being, that religion uses a more subjective version of 'proper' than science does.
yes... although they're (relatively) harmless if that was the only incorrect stance, as long as they don't plan to go into biology... the problem with fundies (like my Aunt Ginny) is they expect miracles, like expecting an autistic child (yes, the same one I was talking about before) to miraculously recover, hence depriving him of the care he needs, thinking they (and their "faith healer") can do better... similar with my cousin with Friedrich's Ataxia, a degenerative nerve disorder (similar to Huntington's Chorea or other ataxias) which causes paralyzation... she and her parents being filled with immense guilt at "What have I done wrong to deserve this?" which just doesn't make sense...
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Dagny Scott said:
No wonder he's violent. I'd be violent too if I were being treated like that.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
he's violent because he's autistic. His treatment would probably be acceptable if he was normal, although he'd have to be sent to school... the problem is Ginny doesn't want to admit he has a problem, and doesn't want to send him to special ed. He's not violent because of how he's being treated, he doesn't have the capacity to understand "gee, they're sending me to a faith healer, don't they know that's not scientific?"
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
On 05 Feb 2000 20:23:00 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
I can walk because of a faith healer, for the record...
Not too scientific of me, but darn it, I *like* walking a lot more than I like disjointed hips.
Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
I guess for Daria to be out chanting om shanti shanti and visting the maharishi mehesh yoga or something that would mean she'd be a hippie at least in other people's minds and in the episode (don't actually know the title) where Hellen and Jake's commune buddies visited she clearly showed she thought the hippie schtick flacky, but still it'd be intresting if she would take a yoga course or something along that line. Or even embraced some sort of aquarian age alter-ego even if for just one episodes length which of course by the tv writing rule s of the game it would be.
ClockworkPear "I had some real cool Rimbaud sig but it didn't save so this will have to take its place for now."
I think her take on new ageism in general would be something on the lines of it being a means by which modern people fulfill feelings of spiritual emptiness without the tedious bother of actually believing or having faith in anything.
Please don't tell my pagan friends I said that. :-)
she could take a Hermann Hesse type interest in Eastern religion (I'm taking a Me type interest in Hermann Hesse, so I thought I'd make that comparison) ... but she remains a clearly Western figure by background and even beliefs, even if she is skeptical about particulars...
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 22:46:33 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
:-) Watch it alli...
Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
I guess a good way to settle this debate would be to imagine the character of Daria having characteristics of timothy leary or john lennon on one end and the atributes of pat robertson on another neither individual would be particulary the embodiment of the character of daria,but in my mind daria comes much closer to the kookiness of mr. lennon than the bigotry of mr. robertson whom if your not familiar with you can catch on the 700 club.
ClockworkPear=Ryan Denton
I doubt she'd figure "kookiness" as the approach to religion... an objector, I'd say, to the uglier aspects of organized religion (like the fact they launch major marketing campaigns using "edgy" colors according to the top graphic designers and people who look they're in toothpaste ads) while agreeing with its premises... Daria's not that big on psychoactive substances (teachings of don jake), nor would she be one to engage in the then "edgy" so-called spirituality of Lennon, and Pat Robertson is just the even uglier underside of the Christian Marketing Proffessionals...
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
plug plug: my daria site has an essay on such a topic, with cool pictures showing my ability to draw halos and devil horns in paint programs (that's the height of my artistic ability)... anyhow, I think that's left deliberately ambiguous, with enough evidence either way, depending on how you want to interpret it.
In some ways, Daria is certainly the most moral person on the show, being that she has beliefs and is willing to stand up for them, not to mention being one of the few of enough intelligence to realize moral dillemmas, making her a great icon for Christians or other people of faith. On the other hand, an atheist may point out Daria as being rebellious, free-thinking, and open-minded, never acquiescing to the majority view, which is Christianity.
I think Daria may have some interest both in Christianity and in other religions, such as the Eastern ones, with the realization that they are all (in their own way) true, avoiding the fundamentalist view of Christians saying "Evolution isn't true, Genesis says seven days" or atheists saying "embryology proves a virgin birth impossible, so that whole Christian thing is pretty damn worthless", but rather at looking at what is behind the stories in terms of meaning...
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
On 03 Feb 2000 23:02:46 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
Isn't that what some people call 'gnosticism'?
(Realizing that it may not actually be gnosticism, any more than LaVeyanism is satan worship...)
Virgin birth isn't impossible.
No, gnosticism is about direct religious knowledge. No bible study is required, God just contacts you and you know.
There was a great novel I read once about a French priest who gets a phone call from God telling him to build an ark as he'd decided to send another flood. I can't remember what it was called though. And then of course there's VALIS by Philip K Dick, where gnosis is achieved by people being zapped by a pink laser from an orbiting satellite that's been sitting up there for millennia, randomly zapping people at intervals.
-Shez.
well, that's something I heard on this list, and I thought it a preposterous interpretation of the virgin birth, as whether it's possible or not is just silly when dealing with religious ideas. The virgin birth REPRESENTS something, it isn't just a statement of history... as with all religious stories. If you have one particular interpretation you'll just respond with "God can do anything" but the better thing to say is: it is birth not out of animal nature but out of something higher (the spiritual). It is the same idea as the story that Siddhartha was born out of his mother's side, meaning a higher chakra.
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
must be bloody painful... as if losing your virginity wasn't bad enough, to give birth first.... lol.. ouch.
wow.... weird.
Shez said:
There was an interesting case during the American Civil War. At a battle (I believe Gettysburg), a soldier was wounded by a rifle bullet which tore off one of his testicles. The bullet continued on and wounded a (female) nurse, who was working in a field hospital a bit behind the firing line, in the lower abdomen.
Both wound up in adjacent beds (in no condition, incidentally, to have sex). They became friends, fell in love, and were about to be married when she discovered she was pregnant, even though she'd never had sex with him (or anyone).
The bullet had apparently conveyed some of his sperm into her vaginal canal, where they had done what comes naturally to sperm, and impregnated her.
Not only did both survive their wounds and get married, but the soldier's remaining testicle was evidently intact, as he fathered several children upon her.
Truth can be stranger than fiction ... or religious myth.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
RDenton81 wrote:
I would tend to think that Daria subscribes to some Judeo-Christianic way of thinking about the spiritual world (heck, she might even be a Zoroastrian), because of her family's background and all (I think it was posed earlier that the Morgendorffers might be Protestants), but one that also likes to study religions around the world and all. I think it's wholly possible to be in an organized religion and have conflicts about some of their teachings (like me, I don't agree with some of what the Catholic Church teaches, but I do believe in God the Creator, Jesus the Savior, and the other main parts of the Catholic (and in fact the Christian) faith. And so what if you think me (or even Daria) foolish for believing in such a way, *I* like it and *I* would be lost and ungrounded if I didn't have it in my life, and I'm sure Daria would say much the same thing.
LI
Hey it was never my intention to knock organized relegion. The philosophies that hold interest to me such as advaita vedanta and theravedan (sorry if I spelled that wrong) buddhism maybe seen as being on the fringe by the majority of the western world but said philosophies still fall under the heading of organized religion. Some may think me foolish for reading the upanishads and beliving in karma without ever having step foot in India so I see your plight, afterall every bodies got at least one sacred cow even if their sacred cow is promising themselfs to not have a sacred cow. I just think its a tad bit out of character for Daria to follow a western theological system. "I just like to think of god as free floating all pervasive spirit like chi"-Clockwork Pear A.K.A. Ryan Denton "Only actions done in god bind not the soul of man"-Isa upanishad>RDenton81 wrote:
In article ,
[Snipping for the sake of brevity, and hopefully not mangling too much...]
I'd agree with Lady I. and say Our Heroine was raised Protestant, but is currently sceptical (agnostic?), with an interest in learning about other religions. She'd still be somewhat Protestant, since she hasn't yet found anything else to be.
While she'd consider the world's major organised religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc) each had validity, the newer, more "New Age" beliefs she'd probably consider as being along the same lines as UFOs and Conspiracy Theories: fun to read about, but ultimately hokum.
[Aside: I'm reading Philip K. Dick's short story "The Wheel Turns" about a future in which everyone follows the teachings of Elron Hu, which say that one's behaviour in your current lifetime determines where (and on which world) on the evolutionary ladder you will reincarnate. Hmm, what could this be referring to? ,:\ ]
RDenton81 wrote:
At the risk of being a killjoy literalist, I think the writers have assiduously, and in my opinion, wisely, avoided this aspect of Daria's personality. Since they're her "creators", if they don't give it to her, she doesn't have it. Based on the available evidence, I'd say no, she doesn't have a spiritual side. Not yet.
This is pure speculation, but I suspect that the writers are of differing spiritual views, and this is reflected in the spiritual indifference of the characters. I do detect a possible Catholic influence in the overall moral tone, but as our resident RC presbyter has so aptly noted, this moral outlook is not exclusive to Catholicism. I still suspect that at least one of the principal writers, either Glenn or Susie, had a Catholic upbringing.
Peace Kevin
Well, I could see the Daria writers avoiding religious issues mostly to avoid controversy. It's very, very difficult to discuss religion in a non-superficial way and not offend *somebody*, since people tend to hold such strong views about it. And I agree, it's probably wise that they have ignored the issue (so far).
Of course, where the real writers fear to tread, there is a vast legion of Daria fanfic writers ready to step in. In particular, Daniel Suni recently wrote an excellent fanfic about philosophy and religion, "How Deep it Goes", now up at Outpost Daria <URL:http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/index.html>
The story is directly relevant to a quote from Socrates: "The unexamined life is not worth living." It asks the question, "OK, but what if the *examined* life turns out to be not worth living?" A warning, though, it may induce depression in people who've not thought through this stuff before...
In article , [email] (KTrick45) wrote:
With a name like Eichler, Glenn is DEFINITELY not Catholic. He's Jewish. New York Jewish, as a matter of fact.
I have no idea about Susie Lewis.
--.\\<-H--
this could explain why someone said the Morgendorffers (and particularly Daria) seem Jewish :)
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Michelle Klein-Hass wrote:
I don't doubt that at all. But I never go by names. An acquaintence of mine was a Catholic named Herman Ruttenberg. Ethnically Jewish, but fourth-generation Catholic by creed.
Peace Kevin
In article , [email] (RDenton81) wrote:
Bingo. I see Daria as a true skeptic...in my fics, even after the events of "So Turns The Wheel" she remains a skeptic.
Take care, --.\\<-H--
I see her as a cartoon character, but if I'd have to guess, I'd say that she's Cartoonish-reformed. ;-)
with aplogies, rich.
[email] (RDenton81) wrote:
Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.