Daria's Politics

GLAD to discuss Daria's politics, as at least its a thread about Daria.

Some observations

1) She is against book burning and even yelled at her TV set when they were doing it (Referred to but not seen in THE OLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL) More generally, I would guess she's against censorship of any kind (see C.E. Formans fanfic ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES for more on this. Available (http://systech.simplenet.com/daria and click on Fan Fiction and http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html)

2) She thinks that America should boycott countries that abuse human rights, but that America will find loopholes for big trading partners like China (THE NEW KID).

3) Her Melody Powers stories (CAFE WHATEVER, and the very end of THE OLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL) show that she is a rabid anti-anti-communist. That DOES NOT make her a communist. She is making fun of the issue rather than taking a stand on it (I suspect the same is true of those posters ``Support the right to arm bears'' with a picture of a Bear holding a gun'')

4) The word ``feminism'' has taken on several meanings; however, in Daria's case, I suspect she finds the notion of doing things that are expected of her BECAUSE she is a female to be disgusting. A prior thread about what her career options are pointed out that being an housewife would not be particularly AGAINST anything we've seen on the show. However, doing it because its EXPECTED of her I can't see.

5) It might be on purpose that they don't say what issues she cares about (even those above are not controversial). Thought Experiment: IF you were to post ``what do you think Daria things about (say) the healt care crisis'' then after the flames died down you would find that we all project onto her what WE believe. (NOTE-- DO NOT, post such a notice to the newsgroup. And DO NOT misconstrue this as such a posting.)

6) I suspect Daria does not trust Government (hence she's NOT a democrat) and does not trust Big Business (hence she's NOT a libertarian) She is too cynical and well read to expect easy answers.

bill

P.S. Check out my Daria Fan Fiction at the same address as above.

William Ian Gasarch said:

Most people are against book burning.

A realistic idealist there.

No, they don't really. They show that she finds both anti-communism and anti-anti-communism, taken to extremes, funny. She wrote the Melody Powers stuff both to satirize Modesty Blaise and to provoke a reaction from Mr. O'Neil, remember?

She finds doing anything because it is expected of her as a member of a group disgusting.

Libertarians don't trust Big Business.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Obviously you don't live in Fremont. Which reminds me, I have to see how well my mother protected my copy of "The Antichrist" from the staff order :)

that describes Daria's world-view universally: a realistic idealist.

Yeah that was more "Let's see how we can stir people up!" than a comment on much of anything. To see she could stir up like Kevin although he doesn't know what communism or the cold war are/were. Also to see Mr. O'Neill's reaction to "anti-communism"... "anti-communism" being as prosecutable now as Communism used to be. Just think of the numbers who asked people at the Oscars to sit on their hands when Kazan got his award (Or as Robert Weide quipped "I'll do better. I'll write down the name of everyone who applauds Kazan and make sure they never work in this town again") But that's still a weak point... when you have your lifetime achievement recipient mocked and attacked from your own stage.

Pretty much. She's definitely an individualist. And not a feminist, because she would hardly buy into the idea that men opressed women, looking at the examples she's had (i.e. her parents). The show may be considered feminist, but Daria's not.

not necessarily, of course. Just free market and its right to exist, I guess. Libertarians are more the "don't trust anyone" type, although that's aimed more towards government than anything else :)

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon

In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

because she

examples

Feminism, to quote someone my memory can't identify at this early hour "...is the simple proposition that men and women are equal." Unfortunately the word Feminism has become twisted by reactionaries from the Far Right Wing to mean belief that women are superior and that men are inferior, oppressive and utterly evil.

Daria is indeed a Feminist. She has enough examples from the outside world to know that women still have a long way to go before they have an equal shake in the world. Women still make $0.75 to every Dollar a man makes. Women still can't walk alone in the streets at night without the threat of being attacked.

Ms. Barch is not a feminist...she's an embittered woman who has generalized all men to be like her ex-husband.

Take care,
--.\\<-H--

Feminism has been twisted by feminists, I'm sorry to say, not by the Far Right. I'm basing my interpretation on my notes on Feminist Interpretation of Literature, which came from a person who sympathized with them. The basic ideas were that men used things like literature to keep women in a subordinate position by showing them as homemakers, nurses, elementary school teachers or by portraying "feminine" as "weak" or by a "language bias" that there are more derogatory female terms (i.e. bitch). Feminist literature would show women as doctors, college proffessors, etc. It would show men as basically evil, sort of lower life form (animal). These are all ideas actually circulated by modern feminists. They twisted the word themselves.

I am in favor of the OLD feminism that calls for equal oppurtunities in terms of education, jobs, and pay. Of course we have that (and don't say they're not paid equally, that's illegal, and while statistics can be twisted to say that there are other reasons). Of course the modern view really tells a female there's something wrong with being a housewife especially, which isn't exactly the best thing for families. Of course having a househusband would be as good but not having one consistent caretaker especially in the early years it is psychologically proven to cause many problems.

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon

That's assuming that there is only one type of feminist, but there's not. *Some* feminists have given feminism a bad name, but that shouldn't devalue feminist aspirations or feminism as a whole.

-Shez.

God I'm going to quote (gulp Shudder ICK) Rush Limbaugh. ARRRRRRRRRGH. I was in a friends car and he had Rush on, but Rush was right here. "Most feminists are simply women who support full equality. I would never disagree with that. The problem is too many of the leadership positions in the movement are controlled by people who wan to punish the men alive today for the oppression of their ancestors." I'm afraid that's what has given many people a negative impression of feminism. I also think of O'Rourke saying tongue in cheek that feminism is more important today because boring old timey feminists were only interested in things like equality under law and the right to vote whereas modern feminists mesmerize us with insane arguments about pronoun antecedents.

Shez wrote in message ...

Right.

In article , "\"President John J. Sheridan of the Interstellar Alliance, Capt.

Not to go off on another completely unrelated tangent (like *that* hasn't happened before), but wasn't one of the reasons that the Equal Rights Amendment was killed was that it would outlaw things like separate bathrooms for men and women.

I tend to think of things this way: men and women are equal but definitely not the same and therfore shouldn't be treated in EXACTLY the same way but in a similar, but not necesarrily the same, way (especially for more complex issues).

Mike Quinn wrote in message ...

There was some fear that it could be interpreted that way. Personally I wouldn't mind unisex bathrooms, but I understand most people do not feel that way.

True, but one can argue if that is instinctual or environmental. I'm always afraid of these thing descending into stereotypes (not that you were doing that). I had almost all female friends in High School. My favourite band is the Indigo Girls, My favourite movie is The Age Of Innocence, the only sport I watch is Ice Skating, I play the Viola I wear Suits and silk ties whenever possible. Guess what stereotype I was tarred with. Thankfully all those stereotypically gay things are things my girlfriend loves about me.

As for the ERA one of the things that caused a problem was it targeted equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Also many people worried that it was the thin end of the wedge Suggesting equality was not the natural assumption of law but had to be spelled out in the constitution. Imagine how that could have turned against immigrants, gays, etc.

In article , "\"President John J. Sheridan of the Interstellar Alliance, Capt. Earthforce, Ret." wrote: <ramdom acts of snippage>

Heeyyy...Wait a minute. You're dead! At least you are in the future. So what was that bright flash in the Whitestar, time travel to the here and now?

Man! Does Deleen know about your girlfriend? Or should I say, will she know?

[email] wrote in message ...

Well it's all rather complex. The story would have been handled in season 2 of Crusade, but well you know. Thankfully, although Lorien won't let me come back. I do get to use his computer. We have a fabulous TI connection out here beyond the rim. It's just that the distorting effects of communication through the rim tend to push your posts foreward to my time, and mine back to yours. As for the Whitestar flash it was that damn Lenier. He finally got me 20 years after his first attempt.

Look I'm dead. Not only that, but I'm thousands of light years away. Till death do we part buster. I'm dead so she can deal with it.

In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) writes:

I had never heard of this sort of thing until I started taking my college lit classes and then I was amazed at the arguments that some of the girls and women would get in with the Profs and other students over the way women were portrayed in novels. I was shocked and, frankly, afraid when some feminists suggested banning, or worse, editing, novels which portrayed women "poorly." Some of them just refused to understand that they aren't about women today but do reflect women during the time of their stories and that these are two comepletely different things. I noticed a similar, but not as vehement, sentiment over race in American Lit. To this day, I can't read Huck Finn without all the arguments coming back to mind. I find the idea of puposely rewriting history to cover-up unpleasant ideas or codes of conduct from the past, horrible. I mean, this kind of mentality does not augur well for the future.

Marie

In article , all [email] (Marie) wrote was:

Choco ration has gone up to 20 grams; doubleplus good!

Marie said:

How did they expect these novels to be "banned" ... and how did they expect to do this given the First Amendment? "Editing" sounds worse to me, too ... how did they plan to do this, given that in many cases the "poor" portrayal would have been essential to the plot?

Oh, and which books were they thinking of?

Yes. To demand that all previous fiction conform to present PC (which the authors at the time had no way of knowing would even exist) is not only absurd and domineering, but would essentially cut us off from our own past (since virtually NOTHING written before 1965 or so would conform to radical feminist standards.

mind.

Which is humorous, since one major theme of _Huckleberry Finn_ is an attack on slavery and the oppression of the black race.

Indeed. If it really takes hold, much of our history might become lost, possibly never to be rediscovered.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Who knows? I could never understand their logic and after the first few such arguments I just ignored them and read until everyone was back on track.

So many... my beloved Jane Austen heroines stuck the most in my mind...

Which is why I found it horrible...

Which is why, at the time, I found it extemely ironic... and our poor Prof... he was so gung-ho about the novel but just couldn't make them understand it in a rational way...

I will add one more thing here that I found... very strange... For the most part, the people pushing these arguments forward were the younger teenage girls and the older women, who were going back to school after (in every case in my classes) having raised their kids and being divorced... This was true for both the gender and race issues... in fact, in my Amer Lit class, we only had one Afr Amer girl and she kept out of the arguments... I don't know if these attitudes are typical across the country or if our college was just being extreme...

Marie

On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 07:51:33 -0700, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

It's a vast right wing conspiracy!

Neither can I.

You know what movie I loved? PCU. "Oooh, she got a little stiff arm going on there".

...which is sickening..

i never understood this "don't go out at night alone - you'll get raped!!!" shit... the person most likely to rape you is someone well known to you... husband/father/male friend. however, nobody likes to admit that their dad is statistically more likely to rape them than "some psychopath." as for just being attacked, iirc young men are most at risk there (not sure)... being beaten up by other young men.

Alli said:

Eh ... now that's an example of how statistics can be deceiving. Since any random woman spends more time alone in the presence of men well known to them, the TOTAL likelihood of rape at the hands of those men is more likely than at the hands of total strangers. However, this does not mean that, on the average, a man well known to the woman is more dangerous, per unit of time, than a total stranger.

(Remember, rape, like any other crime, requires OPPORTUNITY).

Yes. This is true.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

so? reducing the amount of time you spend being vulnerable to strangers by one journey a week will not significantly reduce your chances of being raped. i personally am slightly offended by people insisting i don't walk home alone, but that probably is just me.

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:37:19 +0100, "endless, nameless" wrote:

<snip previous posting>

I actually am *extremely* paranoid when walking home alone at night. I tend to look over my shoulder a lot, I tend to walk quicker than usual, and I make very sure that I'm on a well-lit road with moderate traffic. It might not reduce my chances of being raped or attacked or robbed or mugged, but it at least makes me *feel* better. Paranoia can be good or bad I suppose, but it works well for me.

Perhaps. This does not remove my paranoia of being mugged, unfortunately. :)

She who wonders where she can get a can of mace...

Nicole Lee Also known as LadyKender on IRC and ICQ. The Darianite Revolution at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/daria.htm Kendermore at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/

"But I don't want to be in any 'inner circle cabal thing.'" -Hallucinating Elvis Lady to SpaceRanger on atd-

Daria Code: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313 BB- FCD +DT q fN

Nicole Lee said:

Actually, it DOES reduce your chances of being victimized. Criminals, not being complete idiots, are FAR more likely to attack someone under conditions in which they are reasonably sure that nobody will see and intervene or call the police.

The crime young men are most likely to become a victim of is an unprovoked assault and battery by a "bully" or group thereof. The motive is to demonstrate dominance.

Muggings, on the other hand, are more likely to be carried out against the small and weak. A mugger is not interested in winning a fight (or even HAVING a fight) ... he basically wants to "get paid" (in criminal parlance).

I don't know what the law in San Francisco is. If it's legal there, you could get it at a police supply shop.

Be careful. American law enforcement can be weird about self-defense. There is an unfortunate tendency to enforce the full technicality of the law against "criminals" whose only "crime" was failing to be a cooperative little victim.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:24:04 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Nicole Lee), and it said:

Far from being paranoia, this alertness when walking alone at night in an insecure area is only sensible. Though I don't look over my shoulder or walk quickly; indeed, I attempt to walk as uninfluenced by fear as possible, I do keep an eye on my surroundings, listening for footsteps, watching my shadow ahead of me to make sure it's not joined by another too close by, observing potential hiding places and ambush points and steering clear of them, keeping track of others around me and what they're doing, and generally maintaining a combat ready state of mind. I don't worry, but it hardly pays to be stupid.

• Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR O Os m c- MV- C5X F102,209,308 BB+ FCJ +DT++ q FS:p

Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.

Tarvok wrote in message news:[email]...

Agreed. Keeping your hands out of your pockets is another signal to any would-be attacker, too.

The level of alertness can usefully vary with the level of threat, too. There's one part of Nottingham that, when I was a teenager walking back home from a party in the small hours of the morning, I'd tackle by walking down the white line in the middle of the road. There was no traffic around at that time, there were plenty of deep-shadowed alleys along the narrow pavement (AmE, "sidewalk"), and in those days, there was a history of people being jumped along that stretch. A bit of space gives you time to react, and it also sends a sign to any potential aggressor that here's someone who *has* got a clue.

Martin.

Martin said:

The last part's important too, because a mugger wants an easy catch, and people talk. If he jumps someone who runs off, and the mugger sticks around, the guy he jumped may come back, with friends or with the law.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Where I live, in Utica. N.Y. we live on the outskirts of such an area, filled with drugs and shootings, and the like. Even though only 1 city block away, I did the same thing. My street is tree lined with only 2 or 3 street lights on at night, so there would be plenty of places for anyone to hide. Walking home from my friends house, usually at 11 PM or later, I walked in the middle of the road as well, and what light there was cast long shadows, sometimes 20 feet or so it seemed, so I had plenty of time to react if I felt I was being followed in any way, which is good because I need all that time to escape, while not drastically overweight, I was out of shape and an extremely slow runner, although the rush of adrenaline caused by fear could make someone like me a world class sprinter if my life was on the line.

He who is up very late because of a work schedule shift from 2nd to 3rd shift, for one night only, went to bed at 8 AM and got up at 2:30 PM today and whose body will be out of whack until Wed. at least,

A.J.

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:52:32 GMT, [email] wrote:

Don't forget to shout for help and scream like a madman while running away. A lot of muggings and rapes would be prevented if more people screamed their lungs out. The criminal usually gets panicky when the victim is screaming because he has to fear that somebody will notice. It takes away the feeling of control those guys need because it introduces uncertainty. Additionally such screaming is extremely hard on the nerves of the criminal who is usually on the edge anyway. I would go so far to say that whenever I read about a failed rape/mugging attempt in the newspaper it said that the criminal ran away when the victim started screaming, even when the mugger was armed. MSB

[email] (Tarvok) wrote:

This all reminds me of a sociology study, in which people were shown two pictures of the same place-- in one picture, the place was full of people, in the other, empty of people. The subjects almost unanimously said that the empty place looked more dangerous. Weird, huh?

rich.

Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.

Jake: Jefferson!

Helen: Stalin.

Rich said:

Makes sense to me. If you are in a place with 100 people of whom 1 is evil, the one evil person is restrained from harming you by fear that the 99 other people, who may vary in quality, may contain some who will interfere with him if he tries. If you are in a place with only 1 person, though, and he be evil, he is under no such restraint.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

But the evil person in the crowd is invisible to you, and therefore, more likely to pick your pocket. The lone evildoer can be spotted at a distance, and avoided. (Which many people will do when walking at night-- ever notice how some people cross the street to avoid other people at night?) The odds are still 1%, though. Pretty good odds, if you ask me. (Then again, I stopped worrying about that kind of stuff years ago-- it's useless to go paranoid over something that you have little control over. Besides, most victims already know their attackers. Hell, 70% of all murder victims know their murderers. The only crime you really should be concerned about is being mugged, and in that case, just hand over the damn wallet, and they most likely won't hurt you-- it's only business in their eyes, and they don't want to push their luck against someone who may know how to destroy most of their major joints before they could even try to move their stupid knife in the right direction. But I digress...)

rich.

Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.

Jake: Jefferson!

Helen: Stalin.

Rich said:

Well yes, but the evildoer in the crowd must commit his crime by stealth, rather than confronting you directly. To get back to the original thread, he's not likely to be able to carry out a successful rape.

Of course that statistic consists mostly of organized crime (most gangsters in any given area know each other) and crimes of passion.

Though of course the police are giving out entirely the wrong message by advising that if they seriously intend to bring the crime rate down. Non-resisting victims encourage crime.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

When you aren't sure of your ability to resist a mugging, don't resist-- yeah, it may allow for more muggings, but it reduces the possibility of being physically hurt as opposed to merely being inconvenienced. NOTHING is worth a knife in the back. That is, of course, why my kids will all be required to take martial arts-- I refuse to let them appear to anyone as a potential victim. It's the least I can do for them.

Let me reiterate-- a wallet is NOT WORTH DYING FOR.

rich.

Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.

Jake: Jefferson!

Helen: Stalin.

unless you're Jack Benny.

"You're money or your life." "I'm thinking, I'm thinking..."

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Heh, good one, Dagny.

rich.

Max: We're criminales!

In article , [email] (paperpusher) writes:

This reminded me of something... Years ago, I had a dream where I broke in to my own house when I was there and I caught the other me (who I refer to as the evil me) breaking in and I took the big butcher's knife from her and then chased her all around the yard and into trees and finally up onto the roof where she finally turned and attacked me with another knife... I however, still had the original knife and I fought back, killed her, and cut her up into little pieces... And this wasn't, by far, my strangest dream...

Marie

i had a dream the other week, where i dreamed that i had a dream about finding the body of someone who'd killed themselves in a public toilet, and then found the body of someone who'd killed themselves in a public toilet.. yuk.

I'm glad none of my prescient dreams have been that bad...

On the hand, if weird and bad shit keeps happening to you... you're going to have an... interesting life... just learn to duck... <g>

Marie

In article , [email] (Nicole Lee) writes:

The single best way to avoid being attacked (other then staying inside your locked home... and even that is no guarantee) is to be aware of your surroundings. Attackers tend to avoid people who are very aware of what is going on around them. Always walk under lights when you can, try to avoid areas that are deserted, and let people know that you see them (ie don't walk with your head down). There are also little things you can do like looking at your watch frequently and then looking around as if looking for someone who is running late and maybe muttering in an annoyed tone "Where is he?" or "He better have a good excuse for being late!" Talking to yourself , in general, as if you're expecting someone or meeting someone, works really well. The louder you talk, the better... well, don't yell, of course, unless you want people to question your sanity, which could also work too, I guess. <g> And because nothing is foolproof... it's always a good idea to learn some simple self-defence.

If you can't get mace, there are other things you can use similarly... little travel-sized hair spray pump bottles are the perfect size to carry... after it is empty fill it with water that's had hot peppers (or black pepper or anything that will sting)steeping in it... home-made pepper-spray, cheap, too. Just remember that it will do no good in your purse... carry it in your hand or at least in a pocket you can get it out of in a second or two.

Marie

Alli said:

Oh, I agree. I was just trying to point out that you don't need to be paranoid about your friends and family :)

Rape, like other crimes, happens. Unless you live somewhere incredibly dangerous, though, you'd be foolish to avoid living out of fear of becoming a victim.

If you're worried about acquaintance rape, the best way to avoid that is to be firm about saying "no" and willing to back it up physically long before matters get to the point of an actual attempted rape. You'd be surprised how well a hand-heel to the nose or a knee to the groin will dampen someone's ardor.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

I was raped by an acquaintance when I was 14. I wish I'd been able to fight him off, except that he was several inches taller and pounds heavier. I never told my parents, in fear that they would blame ME for the rape happening. I'm 21 now, and I still live with the awful memories and am going to therapy to counteract them.

Jess "Morgendorfer" [email]

Daria: "NOW do you think I'm timid?"

Daria code thingy A D+ T0 W1 Q+ FN^FR O+ Ow+OH+Os M+ C++ MV-- C5X F:308, 105, 210 BB+++ FCD -DT+ q+ fT

Jessica M. Slover wrote in message news:[email]...

fight

never

I'm

to

I applaud your courage in contributing that. It may well have helped someone else in a similar situation, as well as challenging the (I dare say unintended) implication that someone can fight off a rapist if only they try hard enough.

I hope the therapy helps, and you find peace of mind.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester said:

I wasn't saying that. I was saying that the likelihood of NOT being raped goes up dramatically assuming that the victim fights, ESPECIALLY in an acquaintance rape situation. (So does the likelihood of getting seriously injured of course, TANSTAFL).

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...

try

I never for a moment imagined you were. Hence my talk of an unintended implication. 8-)

It's so easy for very sensible advice to be interpreted as something quite different by victims of crime. One of the questions people often (always?) find themselves asking is, "What could I have done to stop it? Is it partly my fault?" Okay, that's two questions. <g>

Martin.

On the mountaintop, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) spake thusly:

All right, what's TANSTAFL?

-Mindy (who is of the opinion that if he wants to rape you, then he's going to, but don't listen to her)

Mindy asked:

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. (I left out an "a", it's actually "TANSTAAFL"). Courtesy of Robert A. Heinlein.

My point being that all choices carry costs.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Wooden clogs are good too. Katie doesn't have to worry about rape... :)

Dagny

http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon

On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 07:51:33 -0700, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass), and it said:

Don't forget, however, that there are people who actually purport that extreme idea you attribute to the far right wing. Indeed, while the greater number of people who could be considered feminist purport the simple idea you have stated, the loudest are those described as "feminazis."

And yet, there are those who would describe her as a feminist.

• Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR O Os m c- MV- C5X F102,209,308 BB+ FCJ +DT++ q FS:p

Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.

Dagny said:

The local Post Office destroys books they disapprove of?

As witness Kevin's comments about Communism and team sports in "The Lawndale Files".

Yes. That was ESPECIALLY rich.

she

examples

ROFL! Yes, imagine Jake trying to "oppress" Helen :)

I think it's "feminist" in that it takes an optimistic view of female vs. male nature, but not "feminist" in the sense of being truly hostile towards males. Note that the only explicitly "feminist" character on the show, Ms. Barch, is an extreme satire.

I think that big and small business should have to play by the same rules. Which Big Business Republicans do NOT believe.

Government's the biggest threat to individual liberty, because it has a monopoly on the legal use of force.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

On 09 Oct 1999 17:34:39 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Jordan S. Bassior), and it said:

However, it is also the only guarenteer of individual liberty, for preciesely the same reason. Where there is no legitmate government, opression is generally the rule, as the strong and cruel act as they wish without any fear of consequences. It's hard to live as you wish when there are people trying to force their will on others.

The way my dad puts it is this. When there's no government, every barbarian chieftan will basically tear up the land trying to rule. Legitimate government is when everyone decides to support one chieftain against the others, who's hopefully a pretty nice guy, thus ending the conflict so everybody can get back to their lives.

And don't forget that a government that oppresses it's people isn't really legitimate anyway (it's purpose having been abandoned), so it's

"monopoly on the legal use of force" is really a moot point when it becomes a liability.

• Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR O Os m c- MV- C5X F102,209,308 BB+ FCJ +DT++ q FS:p

Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.

Tarvok said:

Yes. Which it gets to be depends a lot on the type of government.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

I would have said that the Melody Powers story in "Cafe Disaffecto" (which BTW is absolutely my favourite episode) said less about Daria's politics per se than her attitude.

Specifically, the fact that when she's forced into an extracurricular activity, she'll take the easiest and quickest way out of it even if it involves starting an anti-communist riot. Which I, for one, am all in favour of.

IK