The Story of D - Random Comments - minor spoilers

I

thought

Stacey

as

the

Fantastic Four

Invisible Girl

in

the

alter egos

was

appropriate

So, 4 threads, two interwoven, one cata-corner, and one ?

1st the Fashion Club Is this the most relaxed and, well, friendly, we've ever seen them? Stacey still does minor backslides, but the spine has not left the building. With Quinn and Sandy not in covert-to-open warfare, the dynamic feels very different. Sandy is still Sandy, but she just takes her sarcasm shot and moves on, not really trying to score (or should that be crush/maim/obliterate?).

2nd Jake This is clearly meant to tie in to, and illuminate the Daria thread. Not much beyond that.

3rd Daria It pretty much takes virtual dynamite to pry Daria out from behind her defences enough to actually risk failure, doesn't it. One thought, why did she even bother asking O'neill not to talk about the submission, I mean, she's had him as a teacher for over two years now, she has to know the futility of that request.

4th Jane This so completely doesn't relate to the other three threads, that I'm wondering if it isn't the set-up for an ongoing story thread. Also, given the regularity with which Jane was popping her head in the door, and given that neither Daria nor Tom are stupid, they had to know what was up. I'm guessing if she hadn't caught an en flagrante dilecti moment, they would have manufactured one for her.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:15:43 -0700, William George Ferguson wrote:

[leaving out the spoilers} Aaarghh! Helen, not Jane. Helen, not Jane. I do know the difference.

William George Ferguson said:

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I noticed this too -- the girls of the FC are acting like real friends now. Stacy was also much more comfortable with expressing her own opinions.

Hey, it was worth a try, wasn't it? Of course, the ultimate humiliation was to have to wind up as Tim and Janet pillow talk ;-)

You mean "Helen", don't you?

This is the second episode this season that we've seen Helen worried that Daria is having sex with Tom. It's a reasonable worry, given that they've been together more than half a year, and that Helen knows that Daria's not as cold as she pretends to be.

Daria may _think_ that she's fully in control of herself, and thus the situation, but Helen probably remembers what it was like being that young, and for that matter if I get the chronology of Jake and Helen's relationshi right, it was probably around 17-18 that Helen first became sexually active (with Jake, and probably the first time with anyone). Helen may not have fully intended to have sex with Jake the first time either.

She missed several opportunities to burst into tears, so I guess she's really improved. I would like to see her really stand up to Sandi some time though. It needn't be as dramatic as with Tiffany in FLM.

Has Tiffany lost some of her drone? Maybe Stacy's mocking her way of speaking really got to her.

Ain't that the truth!

I noticed that Helen's freaking-out didn't freak out Daria.

M Man

"MMan37x" wrote in message news:[email]...

speaking

Not only did Tiffany lose her drone, she also showed that she isn't a complete moron. Her argument against sponsoring the park bench was perfectly rational, and her writing was workmanlike enough to get about a C in a high-school English course.

Joe Gottman

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...

now.

I never would have believed it! Sandi is actually listening to what the other people are saying? And being supportive of their ideas?

Look, I'm one of the biggest Sandi bashers out there but--Damn!

What a change a few pounds can make!

I could almost like the girl Sandi is becoming....'almost'.<The jury is still out>

And the FC is no longer the snakepit it has been!

What a pleasant, and unexpected surprise!

Even Tiffany is coming out of that stupor she's been in for the past couple of seasons and that's nice too.

This was a pretty good episode.

FLM is still, to me, the best ep of Season 5...so far. However, TSOD is coming pretty close.

Why? Because the 'Fashion Club' is actually coming together and acting like friends, in both ep's.

We are actually giving a damn about these girls.

Wow.

If they ever do a spinoff from Daria, I'll take bets on Quinn getting her own show.

Last season that would have been have been blasphemy (Jane Lane Forever!) but now...I don't know....

was to

Daria

cold

and

right,

On

That raises an interesting point to me. SO much fan fiction, and more than a few episodes of the show, have focused on how Quinn receives preferential treatment. Daria's tried to work to bring home the grades and tried to live by some sort of value system. Quinn -- until recently -- hasen't, and this may have led Daria to wonder if, like Even Landon, she "wasn't planned". Remember Daria's example of negative reenforcement from "The Lab Brat?" Now, won't THAT be a potential land mine as we follow this Daria and Tom (and Hellen) "Will they or won't they" plot thread?

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . . SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . . SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . . SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . . SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . . SPOILERS FOR "THE STORY OF D" AND "LUCKY STRIKE" . . . . . .

Actually, I'm not sure why there's the assumption that Jake and Helen's relationship started so early. I thought it started in college and took a while to develop. Maybe there's something more substantial from one of the episodes I haven't seen?

Well, it's true that Quinn hasn't placed much emphasis on her grades until recently. But it's not true that she doesn't have a value system. It's not a value system that Daria has much respect for, but then again, that feeling has been mutual: until the most recent episode, Quinn has been so opposed to Daria's value system that she publicly denied they were sisters.

I don't know how to make the case that Quinn was planned and Daria wasn't. We know that Helen is in her late forties, Jake probably the same, so they probably became parents at around the age of 30, after getting married in the mid-1970s (from the Daria Diaries - 1975 I think). So we're not talking about Daria being conceived by two overcome-by-lust high-school kids in a parked car.

Of course, Daria could have been "unplanned" by 30-year-olds (the Landons, after all, were much older than that when Evan was born), but then, why have another just 18 months later? Quinn's only a year and half younger than Daria. If anything, Quinn would be the unplanned daughter, since it makes sense to spread out planned children a little more.

Unless, that it, Helen tried to minimize the impact on her law career by having her two PLANNED children in a short period of time. That seems the most likely scenario to me, given Helen's age and the short turnaround time between her pregnancies.

Yes, I think the second half of season 5 probably includes a major "will they or won't they?" episode.

One possible plot thread: Daria, being a healthy female heterosexual adolescent, probably finds Tom pretty darn attractive physically. But, given her obsession with not judging people by appearances, she's fighting and denying this feeling since she thinks it means she's shallow.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

M Man

MMan said:

I calculated their ages based on stuff from the two books. I don't remember my calculations, but I remember figuring out that they got involved when Jake was around 18-19 and Helen was around 17-18., or something like that.

Which, given the range of possible error, could easily put her in her freshman year at college. I know at least one person who entered college at 17, have known others, and myself enrolled at 14.

Quite possibly. It would make sense given their age and how long they've been going out. I think the crucial issue (from Daria's POV) will be whether or not she thinks that the relationship with Tom will last.

She decided to go with her attraction to Tom in DDMD and IIFY. I don't think that even Daria would try to avoid sex with him _because_ he's good looking. Her main issues would be with trust and intimacy -- she would be very afraid of being used.

Do you remember where in the books? I just ran through them and couldn't find anything substantive except their wedding vows - 1975 - which gave no clue when they first met.

I remember some of their reminiscing in "College Bored" that led me to believe that Jake was initially just one of many of Helen's admirers and only later did they become a couple.

Well, yes, I took college courses at 17 myself. But ...

Assuming she and Jake started that early, why would she be so extra-special panicky over Tom and Daria? After all, she and Jake didn't become teenage parents, and they're married and still together.

Maybe Rita, not Helen, was the one who started too early, and Helen doesn't want Daria to end up like Rita? After all, it was during a phone call from Rita that Helen suddenly panicked and ran upstairs to see what Tom and Daria were doing (Tom wasn't even in the house, as it turned out).

And why doesn't Helen seem worried about Quinn and her many admirers? Quinn may be squeamish about sexual matters, but surely Helen knows that won't last forever.

Indeed she did. But she could be kidding herself into thinking that *physical* attraction didn't and doesn't influence her (and she could do this pretty easily, since it's not the *only* thing that attracts her to Tom.)

Nothing as direct as that. But maybe she stifles the feelings of arousal she gets from looking at him - she looks away, or thinks of something else? Because of a lifelong belief that being aroused by appearance is beneath her? I don't think she would do this *with full conciousness*, more as a habit.

M Man

MMan said:

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I assume that what she's afraid of is that Daria will have sex with Tom and that it then _won't_ work out -- and there's one big reason why it might not. The Sloanes are a lot richer than the Morgandorffers, and while this status disparity doesn't _seem_ to matter much to Tom, who knows?

That's a very good point. Also remember that the subject of that call was Rita's daughter divorcing her husband, whom the girl had never even loved but had sex with and then married because she caught a VD from him.

*physical*

I don't actually think that physical attraction was the major reason she went for Tom -- if you notice, the initial hook was his sense of humor, and she really began to fall for him when she realized how intelligent he was. Now, I'm not saying that she doesn't like his looks _too_ ... :)

Yes -- we've seen her display this sort of vanity already ...

We have? Could you refresh my memory, please?

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

Pierses888 said:

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In "Through a Lens Darkly" she gets upset by her concern with her _own_ appearance, specifically how she looks with contacts. Daria is quite capable of feeling guilty about her own vanity, and of displaying the anti-vanity of deliberately avoiding even mild vanity and being proud of it :)

I saw "Through A Lens Darkly." The issue for her there was how much did her beauty, as appreciated by other people, comprise her identity? By ditching her contacts, Daria is going out of her way to tell the world that it doesn't. At all.

But how does that relate to how Daria feels towards another person? Daria's a teenage girl and Tom's good-looking guy as far as animated characters go. Of course on some level Daria's going to react on that basis. But is she going to be ashamed of these reactions, refuse to acknowledge them, or deny their true nature? These will be the meat of some of the most interesting Daria-Jane and Daria Helen (and maybe even Daria-Quinn) dialogues of the series as Daria breaks down to ask for help in one of the few areas she is completely unknowledgable in.

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

Actually, it was the complete oposite. She only stopped wearing the contacts because they bothered her eyes, but didn't want to go back to wearing her glasses. She actually does care about how she looks to others, and that bugs her because it threatens her carefully crafted self image (the one she she's when she thinks about herself, not the one other people see). She ultimately goes back to the glasses because she has invested a great deal of her personal identity and her ego into her glasses and what they represent in her mind - that she is more perceptive than everyone around her (of course, this has proven to be false on numerous occasions as Helen, Quinn, Jane, Jodie, Tom and even Trent have picked up on things that Daria hasn't, but that's beside the point).

"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_

In article , BA wrote:

She also was trying to avoid being brought up on assault charges, ISTR :)

Don't forget our canine friends... <Vroom vroom><BANG><Yelp> Oh god, I'm a murderer! :))

The fact that the others may, on a given occassion, pick up on something Daria hasn't, doesn't mean that they're more perceptive, any more than any golfer who beats out Tiger Woods in a given tournament is better than him.

M Man

In article , William George Ferguson wrote: / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /

I liked that "alter ego" so much that I downloaded it from the MTV-Daria official website.

Stacey still gets very anxious and bursts into tears in situations where any other girl would get mildly nervous at best. However, she isn't shown cowering before other characters like she used to, and that's definitely an improvement.

Did anybody notice how funny Tiffany was? She's clearly turning into the comedian of the FC. On two occasions, the other girls functioned as "straight men," setting up Tiffany to deliver the punch line. Sandi and Quinn were observing that no one's going to pay FC to critique people's clothes because that's what FC does at school every day for free. Tiffany says, "Yeah, that's why we're so popular." I howled.

Later in the same coversation, Stacey observes, "This volunteering sure is a lot of work." To which Tiffany replies, "Yeah, they ought to pay us." What makes this line such a howler is that Tiffany is completely serious.

This is the most I've ever seen Tiffany talk in a Daria ep, although I haven't seen all the eps from seasons 1-2. She loses some of the android-monotone quality, I've noticed. I think the writers have decided to make her the comic relief of the group. It definitely worked in this episode.

She doesn't realize what a struggle it is to get to your first publication. It was really good of Tom to encourage her. I didn't think it was very mature of Daria to "blame him" for her story being rejected. Somehow I got the idea a while back that Daria wants to write "The Great American Novel" someday, but if so, then she's going to have to get used to rejection till she breaks through.

I presume you mean Helen instead of Jane.

Daria's clearly not ready for sex yet, and Tom is a very good man not to press her too hard. Besides, if the confrontation at the doorway of Tom's parents' mansion is any indication, their relationship will be a stormy one.

Steve Cross