Because I've fallen into the "Daria" thing late, I've discovered the goth Andrea late, too. She sounds a lot like Daria in a lot of ways, but everyone else has mentioned this (duh). I wonder if she wasn't developed more because she would have competed with Daria in attitude, which I can understand, though with regret.
Any comments on a comparison between the two in character? I never saw anything with Andrea in it.
anything
Andrea has an even darker outlook on life than Daria. The two aren't friends. "Mall of Darkness" suggested that Andrea is scared Daria will make fun of her.
"Thomas Mikkelsen" wrote in news:HDGv8.35017$[email]:
I remember that. The only other ep I remember Andrea having a speaking role in is "IICY," where she and Upchuck go off together. I've often wondered what the upshot of that was.
I never saw all of the eps, being cable-deficient during Seasons 1-2. Were there any other eps where Andrea did anything?
Did Andrea graduate with Daria or will she still be around Lawndale High next year with the FC girls and Kevvy?
No, I'm not implying that Andrea flunked!
Steve Cross
In article , [email] says...
Love is blind...or is that lust?
I remember reading on some Daria website where they had listed how many times Andrea actually spoke. (Or was that how many times she was shown?)
Anyway, I personally can count on one hand how many times that occurred.
The only eps that I remember Andrea saying anything was "Cafe Disaffecto", "Daria Dance Party", "Fair Enough", "Mart of Darkness", and "Is It College Yet?"
God that would suck!
I have a feeling that Andrea hated Laaaaaaaaaaawndale High more than Daria did.
If they did flunk Andrea, I'm pretty sure that she would not have shown up for school next year.
She would have left Lawndale and never returned.
Firah
Firah wrote in message news:...
You mean ... they weren't leaving the party to get a marriage license?
:-)
What exactly did Daria, Jane, and Andrea say to each other in "Mart of Darkness"? There's no transcript of that show that I know of, but everyone seems to have been very impressed with the exchange.
[email] (Roger70129) wrote in news:[email]:
I remember the jist of it. Daria and Jane see a familiar face in the distance, wearing the apron (or whatever) of a discount store employee. [The store, BTW, is clearly modeled on Wal-Mart of Sam's Club.] Either D or J says Andrea's name. Andrea turns around and bitterly complains about her lame parents "making" her work at some loser retail job. She concludes by saying something like, "Go ahead and cut me down like you do everybody else."
Daria says, "We didn't see you here."
Jane says, "We didn't see each other."
I'm pretty sure that's what they said, more or less. I don't have a tape of that show either, but it was a memorable exchange.
Steve Cross
Jane also pointed out to Andrea that "we couldn't cut you down any better than you just did to yourself."
M Man
I don't have a copy of ICCY?, in which I keep reading there was a memorable exchange between Andrea and Upchuck. Does anyone have a (brief) transcript of this conversation? I was thinking about writing a fanfic about Andrea, and this would help! Thank you.
On 23 Apr 2002 22:48:45 GMT, [email] (Roger70129) wrote:
Here you go.
========================================
(Scene: Jodie's graduation party)
Upchuck - Andrea, my dark-eyed mistress of sweet, sweet pain, are you, like me, finding this party a bit too festive? Let us depart for a darker place, where we can explore the melancholia that always accompanies true, unbridled passion.
Andrea - *You're* hitting on *me*?
Upchuck - (uncertain) Um...
Andrea - Okay.
Upchuck - (squeaks) Really? (normal voice) I mean, say no more, my raven-haired ravisher.
(they both leave)
========================================
Hope that helps. Hope this little fact also helps: during the graduation ceremony, Upchuck and Andrea are sitting next to each other. Coincidence? You be the judge. :-)
Martin (send all e-mail to "[email]") +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Outpost Daria: The Internet's Premiere Website for Daria Fans
New, easy-to-remember URL: http://www.outpost-daria.comMartin J. Pollard wrote in news:mGpx8.494$t%[email]:
There's also of course the bit in "Fair Enough" and the Charlie's angels scene in "Murder She Snored"....so I guess they might have been leading up to this for a while....and leaving little clues....
Phill.
Martin J. Pollard wrote in news:mGpx8.494$t%[email]:
Maybe it's their class ranking. At my HS graduation, I sat in the front row with the other Honor Grads. (Brag, brag, brag!)
Maybe it's alphabetical order, with Andrea's last name (which no one knows, apparently) being something beginning with R-O.
Steve Cross
"Steve Cross" wrote in message news:[email]...
As in Rowe? That could make a great fanfic -- Andrea as Stacy's big sister.
It's not alphabetical. As someone else pointed out once, Mack Mackenzie would be sitting between Daria and Jane if that were so:
Lane Mackenzie Morgendorffer
As for Andrea, her last name is usually (in fanfic) assumed to be Hecuba, after a fantasy comic strip in one of the Daria books in which Andrea appears as "Queen Hecuba."
M Man
I'm beginning to think that "Hecuba" might be Andrea's Goth nickname, not her last name. There is a Hecuba in Greek mythology, the wife of Priam, King of Troy. "Hecuba" sounds mysterious, thus its usefulness as a nickname.
Could be. But it *is* widely used in fanfic as her last name - though I think one author used it as her middle name.
M Man
On 25 Apr 2002 08:26:12 GMT, [email] (MMan37x) wrote:
Which is something I never understood. People took the name Hecuba from Andrea's comic strip in The Daria Diaries and ran with it, but there was NEVER any indication -- or even a hint -- that it was any part of her real name. Her last name could be Smith for all we know! Besides, I always thought that "Andrea Hecuba" sounded extremely stupid. :-)
Martin |-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------| (Send any and all e-mail replies to "[email]")
Hmmm. I always thought it sounded a bit exotic.
Chacun a son go�t ...
M Man
[email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote in message news:...
I always assumed that Andrea's last name was something really mundane, even goofy-sounding. Remember, the comic strip was one big self-romanticization fantasy, in which Andrea the Pathetic Goth Chick got to be Andrea the Queen of Despair, or something like that.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
I've always wondered why Andrea cast Mack as her archnemisis in that strip. I sometimes ponder the idea that she's secretly got this huge crush on him but hates herself for it because she's a Goth and shouldn't be infatuated with someone so mundane as the captain of the football team. Which then makes me ponder what might happen if the two bumped into each other in the hallway, she dropped her collection of comic strips and Mack picked them up and saw the ones with him in them (including the one you don't see in The Daria Database in which Queen Hecuba and her archnemisis fight to a standstill and then end up kissing passionately).
There's a fanfic in there somewhere.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
[email] (BA) wrote in message news:...
I think that Andrea definitely had a huge crush on Mack, going by the strip. Too bad that this subplot was never used in the show.
It's not just that she'd hate herself for it because Mack's "mundane." It's that it's _hopeless_. Mack is totally in love with Jodie and would never consider seriously getting involved with anyone else.
Oh, by the way, have you ever considered that, when they were younger, Andrea may have been friends with Jodie, Mack, and possibly Charles as well? Andrea and Charles share a love of fantasy, and Jodie and Mack seem to act more accepting towards Charles than most people do.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
Martin -- Thanks! Excellent. This is perfect.Exactly what I hoped it would be!
Roger
"Martin J. Pollard" wrote in message news:mGpx8.494$t%[email]...
memorable
transcript of
and this
Cool. You working on the IICY transcripts already?
D. T. Dey
Martin J. Pollard wrote in message news:...
... which is really ironic,if you remember Andrea's caricature of Upchuck in her little comic strip ... wonder if she ever shows him that?
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
Jane is looking for someone to help her find the section of the warehouse store to get her replacement Gummy Bears. She and Daria keep seeing this one clerk in the distance who quickly walks away anytime they start walking in her direction. Eventually they sneak up on said clerk and when she turns around, the realize it's Andrea. She's been avoiding Daria and Jane because her parents* forced her to get a job and she fully expects the pair to cut her down with insults and mockery -- /like they do everyone else/. It's a very telling sceen that sneaks up on the viewer unnoticed, showing not only why Andrea never hangs out with Daria and Jane (she clearly does not like them -- or more specifically does not like the carefully crafted persona Daria has constructed to drive people away from her before they can cause her "inevitable" emotional pain; Jane is guilty by association) but also hinting that Daria may possibly even have developed a repution among the student body as a verbal bully.
One may ponder the irony of Daria and Jane condeming the Fashion Club for insulting and putting down all those who don't conform to their ideas of how people should act and what their priorities should be.
(If -- please note the word IF -- Daria is viewed by the rest of the school as a bully, it would cast Tiffany's "We were just being polite about it" statement from "Lucky Strike" in a slightly darker light. One could easily imagine students who have had the misfortune of trying to speak to Daria commenting on how awful and painful it must be for Quinn to have to put up with that all the time. )
*And from the sound of things, Andrea's parents are as mundane as everyone else's, in spite of countless fanfic authors portraying them as Satanists, outlaw bikers, vampires and God knows what else.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
[email] (BA) wrote in message news:...
Eventually they sneak up on said clerk and when she turns around,
I can easily see that. Daria, after all, has insulted bigger and scarier people than Andrea. She's insulted the teachers. She's insulted the popular kids. She insulted _Tommy Sherman_ -- who DIED after that confrontation!
Andrea may be the Queen of Despair in her own private comic strip, she may have been intimidating for Chuck to approach, but in reality, she's rather harmless. And she knows it.
Oh, that's exactly what Daria does. Always justly _by her own lights_ -- but these are the lights of a frighteningly intelligent, seriously naive, and unashamedly critical teenager.
Jane is way more tolerant than Daria, but by _MoD_ they were seen as inseperable by the Lawndale HS community.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
One point that strikes me when comparing Daria and Andrea is that Andrea is a loner, but Daria is half of a dyad. Daria and Jane are pretty much like the left and right halves of someone's brain (intellectual vs. artistic), though that assumes the two halves can separate and walk away from each other, and sometimes argue. Andrea has only herself -- but, given her comic on "Queen Hecuba," Andrea seems to mix elements of both Daria and Jane. Andrea's not only an artist (a comic artist, but who's arguing?), but a writer (doing the script as well).
There's not really any evidence for this one way or another. We never see Andrea with anyone, but then we barely ever see her at all. If we only saw Brittany as few times as we see Andrea, we'd probably have never seen Angie, Zoe or any of the other cheerleaders. It's possible there's an entire Goth clique at Lawndale, and we just never see them. Or she may have friends who aren't Goths.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
[email] (BA) wrote in news:[email]:
There may be a Goth clique she associates with that don't go to Lawndale. They go to other high schools in the area. It wouldn't surprise me if Andrea has on-line Goth pals. This is the Internet era after all.
Steve Cross
Teachers aside, Daria has, apparently, *only* insulted popular kids (and not all of them, either - e.g., Mack and Jodie).
Andrea was afraid of what Daria and Jane might say, but it doesn't appear that she had ever been their target - though her Goth appearance and poetry (Caf� Disaffecto) could make her an easy target.
Hmmm. Upchuck didn't seem intimidated approaching her (no more than he did anyone else) but when she called his bluff, he got a bit shaky. :-)
Actually, I guess he wasn't bluffing.
M Man
And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in that ep, after Andrea told her er, "poem"(?), weren't Daria and Jane the only ones who clapped for her, half-hearted as it was? I think either would prefer her waaaay better than any "popular" kid. Thanks.
-Steven Galloway
[email] (MMan37x) wrote in message news:...
Well, WE know how Daria's mind works. We've watched a show centered on her character. We know, in particular, that Daria's not sadistic.
Andrea isn't privy to this knowledge.
Right.
Well see, the thing is, WE know that Daria would be the last person to think it ridiculous that someone else is a creative nonconformist. But ANDREA didn't know that.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
[email] (Jordan179) wrote in message news:...
No, but they've all been classmates for several years and if neither Daria nor Jane has insulted Andrea *yet* ...
... despite her being an inviting target, you'd think Andrea wouldn't be so fearful of Daria and Jane as to run when she sees them coming.
Yeah, Daria saves her venom for the same sort of kids who dumped on her back in grade school - the ones who called her "Egghead" in the "Boxing Daria" flashbacks. Sometimes she misfires - Brittany and Kevin really don't dislike her, though they find "brains" a bit of a different species, and really don't deserve Daria's putdowns. The Fashion Club, for the most part, really do act like Daria's grade-school tormenters. But not Andrea.
M Man
------------
Daria: It's more than a box. Jane: I'd say it's *exactly* a box.
Steve Cross wrote in message news:...
That's a good question, if you're interested in the future development of either character. I'm sort of surprised that it wasn't addressed even implicitly in the movie.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
I'm actually writing a fanfic that addresses this very question. You know, Upchuck isn't really evil. If he found someone who liked his sense of humor, and appreciated his attention (and his deep pockets for presents, though not as a major item), AND if he was actually monogamous, unlike his dad, THEN that would be pretty interesting. Upchuck comes across as an entrepreneur sort, maybe looking for someone with talents that need showcasing.
And Andrea: If she found someone who could cheer her up, who appreciated her for exactly the person she is and didn't try to change her, and liked her sarcastic / realistic take on life and people, and would promote her excellent comic-book creation skills, THEN that would be pretty interesting.
Wouldn't it?
His father has never been shown or even mentioned anywhere on the show. /Anything/ about Charles Ruttheimer II is pure speculation based on, well, nothing.
Charles is primarily an entertainer. He's the school's sports color commentator, the MC of school events, a DJ, and a magician. His interests include Star Wars, X-Files, Superman, animation, the 3 Stooges (especially the ones with Shemp), Monty Python, Jerry Lewis, computers and collecting just about everything (especially anything fast food restaurants give away).
This assumes she needs cheering up in the first place. There's nothing to indicate that she is unhappy.
I think you may be projecting Daria and/or Jane onto Andrea here.
The idea of Charles and Andrea teaming up to start their own webcomic is an interesting one.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
You make some good points, and I see your reasoning. A few things puzzle me.
1. I thought, in one episode, Upchuck was sent off to buy a bikini for his father's secretary. That looked sort of fishy, but I may have gotten it wrong. His dad is rich, I believe that's established somewhere.
2. Andrea was pretty unhappy in "Mart of Darkness," about being made to work in retail by her parents. Her widely quoted poem is dark, but you could also call it "realistic" or sarcastic. If Daria and Jane see a kinship with Andrea, their outlooks must have strong similarities despite any differences.
No. It's from "Malled". He's just using that as an excuse to ask female classmates to model swimwear for him during the class field trip to the mall. Whether he's being serious or if it's just part of his elaberate "Chuckmeister" persona is anyone's guess.
Upchuck - Hey sweet baby, how would you like to spend some do-re-me, eh? I need some models for this um... (sees Jane and Daria) Ladies! Are you aware of the advantages of a gold card? Very advantageous when it belongs to your father! Dad wants me to pick up some bikinis for his secretary. He he he he... But I need a couple of models. The two of you are about her size. What do you say girls?
and a bit later:
Upchuck - Mrs. B? Can we stop for a minute at Bikini Island? I'd like to buy a few trifles for the ladies. And perhaps you'd care to pick out something for yourself.
No. There's an answering machine message from The Daria Diaries that establishes that his father a) is named Charles II, b) is a businessman of somesort who at times takes businesstrips overseas, and c) is apparently not very amused by his son's antics (there are three different answering machine messages by CR3, only one of which involves his lady's man gimmick; the other two involve him being a spy and being part of a conspiracy bent on world domination).
Yes. She's unhappy about being made to work. The same way any other teenager would be in the same situation. Mack was unhappy about having to sell ice cream over the summer, just as Jodie was less than thrilled about some of her summer jobs, but that hardly means they're unhappy all the time. Same with Daria being unhappy about having to work at the Nuthut or at the OK to Cry Corral. That doesn't make her unhappy when she's doing stuff she enjoys with Jane or Tom or by herself.
I think the most apt descriptor would be "Gothic" -- having a focus on the dark, the mysterious, the desolate and the grotesque.
Sarcasm refers to a sharply mocking or contemptuously ironic remark intended to wound another.
Realistic refers to expressing an awareness of things as they really are or an acurate representation of what you are describing.
Andrea - I'm here. But where are you? Sure I see your body. Anybody home in that rotting bag of flesh?
It's impossible to say if the statement is realistic or not without the rest of the poem/story to use for context. If Andrea is talking about seeing a corpse, then yes, it's realistic. If she's talking about a living person, then it's not realistic. However, it doesn't qualify as sarcastic. If the fictional person the poem/story is directed at is a normal person, then although the statement is meant to wound it's indended recipient, it's more of a blunt insult than ironic mockery. If the person is someone in a coma or mentally ill, then it's not meant to wound (instead being a poetic comment on their mental state).
What basis is there to see a kinship with her? Daria and Jane ignored Andrea (and she avoided them) for over a year and a half, and even after "Mart of Darkness", neither side made any effort to bond with the other. There's nothing to indicate that Daria and Jane see Andrea as anything other than just one more member of the student herd at LHS.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
[email] (BA) wrote in message news:...
I agree with most of what you said, but I do think there are things to indicate that Andrea's unhappy. We never see her with friends, most of what she says is intentionally dark (now admittedly, this is partially part of the Goth persona ...), her comic strip is basically one long revenge-fantasy, and she's desperate enough that she goes off with Charles (though of course she may have liked him for other reasons not appearing on the show).
I do think that she and Charles would be a better match than obvious on the surface. Charles is actually a lot of fun if you don't take his constant dirty jokes too seriously, and he's fen like her -- just a different subspecies.
It's quite possible that something serious develops from that fling, or whatever it was.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
Which means nothing. She's a bit character at best. We never see Dawn, Burnout Girl or Skater Guy with friends either, but it doesn't mean they don't have them. If Britteny was limited to a single line per season, would we have ever seen Amber, Zoe or the other cheerleaders? We never see Mack with anyone besides Kevin or Jodie. Does this mean those are the only two people in Lawndale he ever talks to? There could very well be an entire Goth clique at LHS (perhaps even part of a larger clique within the town of Lawndale).
No. Her performance at the coffee shop is dark and gothic. However, there's nothing intentionally dark about "Don't touch me, you Howdy-Doody-looking creep" or "They're gaining their senses." All these indicate is, respectively, that Charles is annoying her and she apparently doesn't see why people want to date Britteny (although I presume she's aware of the more obvious reasons).
Only against Kevin and Charles (and to a lesser degree some of her teachers). Mack being cast as her archnemisis leaves too many unanswered questions about that strip. At any rate, discontent with peers and authority figures is fairly normal teenage behavior. Heck, Mack has recurring fantasies about trying to get Brittney to jump out of a window, yet he's clearly pretty happy most of the times you see him with Jodie.
There's no reason to presume that she's motivated by desperation. She may have a long standing infatuation with Charles and only acted on it then because school was over and it wouldn't impact her reputation any to go off and make out (or more) with him. Or she might have been bored and decided what the hell, why not (the way Jane did way way back in ep 102; she was hardly desperate).
And now I have this image of Charles, Andrea and Stacy all having this relationship together.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
In article , [email] says...
I think Mike Quinn put it best about Andrea's position in the Lawndale High social hierarchy as "...a planet further out in the high school solar system -- the Pluto to (Daria and Jane's) Neptune --
Firah
Firah wrote in news:[email]:
<Butthead> uhuhuhuhhu so like who's Uranus uhuhuhuhuhuhhu uhuhuhuhhu Uranus is cool uhuhuhuhuh </Butthead>
Sorry...could not resist !
Phill.
In article , [email] says...
Upchuck!!
Firah