About fanfic and the "Daria" writing team.

OK folks...here's some official information about the "Daria" writing team and fanfic.

Nobody on the writing team reads "Daria" fanfic. Simple as that. So none of these speculations about whether one episode or another is influenced by fanfic are correct.

If an episode seems like or plays out like a given fanfic, just chalk it up to "great minds think in the same gutter" and leave it at that.

I know I once wrote that #403 *seemed* like a Peter Guerin fanfic. Just so there is no misunderstanding, I did NOT mean that I thought it was copied from a Peter Guerin fanfic, just that it played out in a way which reminded me of a few of Peter's fanfics.

Hope this clears things up, --.\\<-H--

In article ,

I would imagine that for leagal reasons they are forbidden from reading fanfic visiting fan sites. Because if they did they could be opening themselves up to some fanfic author saying "you stole that idea from my fic, I want $$ for it"....and taking it to a court or law :)

Heheheh

I don't think I've read any of his so I couldn't comment :)

Phill.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:35:07 -0700, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

Hey, there really *is* nothing new under the sun :)

Damon Orca on #Stars!

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And anyway, as far as #403 is concerned, the concept of Kevin leaving/quitting/getting kicked off the football team is not that farfetched of a story idea. With so much of Kevin's identity wrapped up in football, it would only make sense to do an episode where that is taken away.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:35:07 -0700, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

Well, I think you know that not all of us were gullible enough to believe that this was *actually* the case. :-) I think that many of our comments had more to do with the coincidental similarities of the episodes to various fanfic concepts. The moral and legal implications of basing scripts on fanfics would be too much of a risk for studios to take (and is the same reason why they no longer read unsolicited scripts and/or scripts not submitted by established authors through legitimate publishers; sadly, there's almost no chance of there being another David Gerrold out there who can luck out with his own "Trouble With Tribbles"-type "improbable success" story).

Of course, given the sheer number of fanfic stories out there -- Outpost Daria has over 500, and I certainly don't have all of the ones that actually exist -- there's bound to be repetition at *some* point. "There's nothing new under the sun," as the saying goes; we just tend to invent new ways of presenting it. :-)

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
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Fair enough, that's true for most writers of TV programs who want to avoid getting sued for plagiarism over some coincidental resemblance.

But do any of the production team ever lurk on a.t.d? I'm on the sci.space newsgroups and it's know that a lot of current and retired astronauts read them though they _very_ rarely post.

Michael Morton said:

I think they do but they don't want to admit it. How can they *not* be curious how the fans are reacting to their story lines and plot points?

Furthermore, I also find it *very* hard to believe that the writers don't read any fan fics. Maybe not on their main accounts, but I for one would be curious to see what other people were doing.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

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I remember a while back here, someone mentioned that the staff from the series "Newsradio" lurked on that shows NG throughout their run, and I just read the other day that the Simpsons writers do it as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone on their team isn't asked to keep an eye on us and/or any message boards. Whoever you are, we love the show, and only criticize it because we care:-)

Could other staff members such as the background artists or the sound people, for example, or others associated with the show in anyway at all read the fanfic or would everyone related to the creation of the show have to avoid reading any fanfic? I understand why the writers can't read any, and I've changed my belief that the writers used fanfic ideas and chalked it up to a coincedence that any similar ideas appear on the show, but if this refers just to the writers and not other staff members, couldn't someone else from the show read a fic, relay the idea to the writers, and have them go with it? Technically couldn't they be OK with this, since the writers aren't reading any fanfic themselves, they could say they got the basic idea from a friend or colleague, and developed the rest of it on their own or with the writing staff. I'd guess probably not, due to the same legal reasons, but I'm not even close to sure, since I know nearly zero in the legalese department. Would anyone know the ramifications, if any, under this scenario?

Just curious, A.J.

On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 06:32:52 GMT, [email] wrote:

Um... it would be bad, unless they got the author's consent. Very bad. Hence plausible deniability under WGA/WGAE rules as well as under company rules/contracts/etc.

To give a better explanation, which is not and should not be considered legal advice, it would be like acting as a fence for stolen property, except in this case it would be stolen intellectual property. It's best to leave fanfic for the fans, and the TV writing for the TV writers. If you really want to get your scripts produced, there are very formal procedures that you must follow, and even then, the odds are astronomically slim. I recommend J. Michael Straczynski's book on Scriptwriting- he's both written and produced shows. (Remember "Babylon 5?" That was his production.) Anyway, he's been in the biz for donkey's years. and has a lot of very interesting info on the topic.

Oh, and none of this was legal advice, none of you are my clients, no attorney-client relationship has been created or should be implied.

rich.

Jane: All I want is to make beautiful things!

In article , [email] wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I figured that it had to be illegal in some way but couldn't put my finger on it, and just wasn't sure. Again, thanks.

A.J.

Well I don't know. I've never read any Daria fanfics, I just don't feel any inclination, as it's not real Daria. (Although I've made some vague half-hearted stabs at writing some, which I think is a different issue.)

Actually I was pretty disappointed with the Daria Diaries too, when I finally got my hands on a copy. For me only the genuine animated article will do.

-Shez.

wrote:

Although I'm a die-hard Darian, I don't read fan-fic either. Basically I don't have the time to take it all in (and it just keeps on growing) and I was a little disappointed by the stuff I did read. However I have to admit I am impressed with the time people obviously put into it.

I thought it was cool that they did a book and its sequel. However what I'd really like is a behind the scenes book with comments from the creators, the actors, the whole nine yards. I figure there was so much more that could have been said in that special and a book would do the trip.

On a side note the idea of the creators lurking this ng doesn't make me self-conscious. If anything, it makes me more open in my opinions-if we can't tell 'em how we feel, who will?

Jeff M

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Ah yes! A book with character profiles, episode summaries, commentary and afterthoughts by the writers themselves would be terrific. I hope they're reading this... --Tice Rust:-- The other Y2K problem.

A great example of that is the MST 3K book, "The Mystery Science Theater 3000 Amazing Colossal Episode Guide." It has all that, and so much more. Of course it only goes up until season six, with season seven previews, but that's okay. I still think it's one of the best 17 dollars I ever spent. :)

--J.

BTW, Shez, where did your quote "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat" come from? I seem to remember you mentioning something about where your .sig quotes were going to come from for awhile, but I can't seem to find that message. Thanks!

Jessica M.L. of ASOP (Association of

Like most of my sigs it was generated by the UNIX fortune cookies program, which has a huge database of quotes and jokes and stuff which I've gradually added to myself whilst weeding out the lamer stuff. I don't know who that quote was by, though it seems to my mind to refer in turns to Linux and to Steve Bell's "If..." cartoon, which used to star an ungrateful penguin from the Falkland Islands that came to Britain to stir up a revolution. On the other hand maybe it's about Batman or something.

Sometimes my sigs are stuff I've typed in directly though, like the recent Jonathon Meades ones - here's the next one in that series.

-Shez.

On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:30:49 GMT, Tice Rust wrote:

PRODUCTION ART!!! Sorry to yell, but that's what I'd really LOVE to see in such a book. Lots and lots of PRODUCTION ART. ;-)

That other stuff would be cool, too... Imagine a few pages on each and every character. Wouldn't that be cool? Like a chapter on DeMartino, and O'Neill... a little backstory on them, what the 'book' is on them, you know, that sort of thing. It would be waaay cool. And, of course, they could fill it with PRODUCTION ART.

rich.

Did I remember to mention the PRODUCTION ART? ;-).

Jane: All I want is to make beautiful things!

wrote:

Well, if they were to do a companion they'd have to include production art of course. But what I'd really like is WRITER INTERVIEWS. I imagine Michelle might do something like that for TOON (I hope!) but I'd really like a book with interviews. I'd like to know what they're thinking.

Jeff M.

So I was wandering around Deja, doing a search on "canadibrit" to see if anyone else was talking about Jan, when I found Tarvok's post from a while back commenting on ATD policy (which I hadn't been aware of) saying that it's acceptable to post URLs of fanfics here, but not the fics themselves.

Now, as it happens, I don't have a page of my own. Does this mean I'm supposed to just cut out the middleman and send adaptations (and original fics, which I've got some coming Real Soon Now) direct to Martin? Please advise.

Austin, and good day. Al D T0 W- Q Fw^Fr O+ Ow+OH+Of m c- MV+ F:111,208,313 BB+ FCT -DT+ q fJ^fj^fD

On 14 Apr 2000 02:16:37 GMT, [email] (Austin Loomis ) wrote:

Or you can get your own page at one of the free web page places or pay for your space...there's plenty of options out there :)

Damon Orca on #Stars!

Well, it's generally considered bad form if you can avoid it, because it's a lot of bandwidth for some people with slower connections. But I havent' heard any complaints.

On 14 Apr 2000 02:16:37 GMT, [email] (Austin Loomis ) wrote:

Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

Yes, a book about the series would be good. My problem with the Daria Diaries is that it has a lightweight feel. It's also not very long. To be honest Calvin & Hobbes or Dilbert books are much better value, and they combine humour with deep & meaningful insights, something I felt the Daria Diaries failed to do, unlike the TV series.

-Shez.

wrote:

I always felt that the Daria Diaries was sort of a primer for anyone who had never watched the show before. So it was kind of lightweight. But I still think they should do a major companion now that we've gone three seasons and are into the fourth. Or another good magazine article like the one Michelle did for TOON. I'm starving for information.

Jeff M.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:20:36 +0100, Shez wrote:

I dunno... I find some fanfic to be actually very very good. It's always interesting to see someone else's spin on the characters in a form that doesn't read like an essay or a diatribe. It's a sort of indirect way of getting a person's POV on the show. But I understand why some folks are turned off by it-- there's a lot of good stuff, but also a lot of bad stuff out there, depending on what you like to read. It's all a question of inclination, I guess... Anyway, diff'rent strokes, blah blah blah, diff'rent folks.

rich.

Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!

Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?

Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!

Shez said:

I liked both the Diaries and the Database; they gave one more insight into the characters, especially the secondary ones, than you were likely to get from the show up to that point.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Michel Morton wrote in message news:[email]...

ISTR reading at one time that someone from the team did; but I imagine that may have stopped once Austin started posting here his prose adaptations of canadibrit's fanfic. Until then, if memory serves, people posted URLs of fanfic, but not the fic itself, so it would have been a legally safe(r) place for people involved in producing the show to lurk.

Saddened by some of the side effects of litigiousness, Martin.

Presumably there are people working on the programme who are safely insulated from the writing process and so can wallow in fanfic if that's their wish. It just occurred to me that a bit of lurking is a simple and obvious way of getting feedback.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:08:52 +0100, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Yeah, what's up with that, anyway? I thought about saying something about the ng not being an appropriate place to publish fanfic (certainly advertise, but not post the whole thing), but I didn't want to be seen as a wannabe net.cop. Well, let me say something now: don't post fics here! *Please* adversise them (It'd be nice if people announced them here on a regular basis, so I wouldn't have to go scouring Outpost Daria for new fics), but don't post them.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:47:45 +0100, Michel Morton wrote:

Why does everybody keep talking about legal reasons? Legal stuff won't keep someone from the MTV staff from reading fanfic. The Internet is anonymous. If they're not so stupid to download fanfiction from an MTV computer with an IP address assigned to MTV but instead use some dial-up service with dynamic IP they can read fanfiction as much as they want and no one will ever be able to prove in court that an idea is stolen. No, I really don't think legal stuff is why they don't read fanfics. I think they don't read fanfiction because doing so has a large negative impact on your own creativity. If you occupy your mind with someone else's ideas it messes with your own. The worst thing is that you get very insecure. You start asking yourself constantly "Is that my own idea or have I read that somewhere?" and this drives you mad. I don't need to mention that most fanfics don't feel true to the characters. If the MTV authors read too many of them they might lose the feel for their own characters. MSB

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

MSB wrote:

Oh it's easy to be anonymous. If you're truly paranoid, go to a cybercafe for an hour. I suppose it's just better to be in a position to stand up in court and truthfully say "I've never read fanfic". Also I suspect it's in the writers employment contract.

Fanfics are mostly the product of one person with personal idiosyncrasies, most US TV os done by a team of writers so impact of an individual is lessened and the result develops a consistent style.

A practical application of the large number of monkeys & typewriters idea. Except I think actual monkeys would do better in many cases. :-)

On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 19:49:14 GMT, [email] (MSB) wrote:

<snip>

Actually, I think it's strictly forbidden in the Writers Guild Assocation guidelines. They can't read unsolicited scripts either I think.

Cheers, Nicole Lee

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- Isaac Asimov

"No, no, no, Lisa. If adults don't like their jobs, they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do it really half-assed." -- Homer Simpson

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