While reading through the swath of Daria and Dating posts, I came across a sentence that talked about intelligence and nonconformity and the pressures from the mainstream to thwart this.
Is real intelligence based on non conformity... is Daria intelligent because she refuses to conform... are you intelligent because you have the ability for independent thought?
What about the the doctor or the lawyer who are traditionally labelled as the 'intelligent' ones in our society, and the artist who is not seen as 'intelligent' but still thinks critically?
To be intelligent is to be a nonconformist. You think. You analyze. You can't accept things just because someone "says so." To do so is inimical to your very existence. You have a compulsion to figure things out for yourself and decide for yourself. After having examined the facts and the evidence you come to your own conclusions about the world, society, other people, and how you fit in to it. If after all that you still conclude that you want to behave or believe just like everyone else, it will be because YOU decided it and NOT because you simply accepted someone else's opinion. Nonconformists sometimes look just like everyone else.
This is a trait absent in "dumb" people. They don't analyze, maybe because they can't. They'll blindly latch onto a leader figure and blithely and uncritically accept whatever he/she says, even if it should turn out that the leader doesn't really have their best interests at heart. Such people will even accept as a leader someone who doesn't even purport to be a leader, someone who's only virtue is that they've been made famous through some other activity, ie, a sports figure or movie star. They can't think for themselves so they're always willing delegate their thinking to someone else.
Intelligence exactly means that you're capable of independent thought. It's impossible to be intelligent and not exercise independent thought. Intelligence is a raging inferno of thought, all of it independent. The fire refuses to be banked. It yearns to think and analyze, even if only for its own entertainment. It's inevitable that such thought would lead to new ways of doing things, new ways of seeing things, and new ways of thinking about things. It is possible to conceal the fire, to hide it from those who can never understand. In some environments this might be the wisest course, maintain a low-profile, appear to conform, at least seem to fit in. In the long run though you'll only be deceiving yourself if you think you really have fit in. You might as well accept it--you're different. Just enjoy it and let the rest of the world screw itself.
There seems to be some difficulty in defining intelligence. Still, we know it when we see it, don't we? We often find it in the unlikeliest of of places. You can't make the assumption that someone is intelligent simply because they work in a field usually associated with scholarship. I know people of notably unremarkable intellect who work as doctors and lawyers, illustrating that you don't have to be smart to get through law school or medical school, though unquestionably it helps. I've also met people working in quite unprepossessing fields who exhibit unquestionable intelligence. Never assume anything until you've talked to them.
In theory, yes. But in practice, many otherwise intelligent people surrender their right to think freely about certain issue ... "sacred cows" ...about which the "correct" conclusions have been culturally predetermined. People who openly disagree on these issues face a LOT of disapproval which can be detrimental to their lives; given this fact, a lot of smart people choose not to OPENLY disagree (in order to avoid flak) and find it easier on their sanity not to internally disagree as well (to avoid cognitive dissonance).
<snipped excellent point about stupid people being essentially followers>
Keep in mind that the stupider a person is, the more it makes sense for him to follow someone smarter.
I agree. But it doesn't mean that you always, or even usually, exercise this capability.
One can confine its exercise to "acceptable" points of speculation. I don't agree with that choice, by the way, but a lot of smart people obviously do.
Indeed. And it's what makes Man great.
This attitude, which is wonderful and gives me hope for the human race, is explicitly the product of modern Western society. We've attained a higher degree of tolerance and freedom than any previous culture. Let's hope we keep the flame of the mind burning.
Hmm.. I'm not totally sure about this. The 'ard lads at my school cluster in groups where power is pretty much determined by 'hardness' - i.e. the skill which with the existence of a brain is masked. Thus the leader of a group that actually includes some quite smart kids is a a monosylamic troll, who carries a jagged trunction-like thing at all times.
I meant that stupid people who try to hew their own course unadvised are likely to pick a poor one. If what you're talking about by "`ard lads" is the petty criminal subculture, you should consider that most petty criminals wind up spending long periods of their life in prison, and overall being less successful than non-criminals. Crime can pay, but it doesn't pay for common thugs.
I tend to think of myself as being a reluctant nonconformist, whose individuality might have not been apparent had she been accepted during her grade school years. This is because I was raised in the typical manner of most lower class individuals, i.e. to hold conformity and following rules/regulations as being paramount to living a successful life. I do see myself being rather conformist at times, but that's because I remember my parents stating such behavior was not only acceptable but encourageable.
It's within the richer classes of society that nonconformism is encouraged and accepted. I think this is because there is more room to be able to be a dreamer or an artistic type. With the lower classes people have to struggle a lot in order to survive, and survival often means living a life in which there is little room to theorize and "think outside the box". So I do think that anyone who says nonconformism is necessary for true intelligence is probably misguided, as that shuts out a lot of bright individuals who come from less than posh surroundings.
(oh yes, and I'm a "reluctant nonconformist" because I had no choice in the matter...people shunned me in grade school, therefore automatically I was outside the realm of conformism...this changed very little in high school, though, even though I became quite popular...)
Sometimes being raised in a conformist, lower class society like that can lead to even greater rebellion, and rebellion as a greater part of one's character. Someone who feels destined to be an artist, for one thing, may be pressured EXTREMELY not to pursue art, being that the working-class mind is fixed on improving its status economically. However, for many people, they are unwilling to give up something that important and instead there grows an ever increasing rift between himself and authorities.
Thus, the rebellion is a significant life decision, rather than possibly a "phase" as it is considered among suburban upper middle class types.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
There's something to ponder. Although I don't think people like artists who come out of the lower class really do it out of rebellion from the rigidity of their existence...they probably just wish to depict something that shows life as they themselves know it, thus adding something for the other members of their community to relate to. Wanting to relate to something external is still a great part of someone's psyche, whether the person denies it or not.
It is something worth noting, though. Am not completely discounting your argument.
One way Diane's lucky is that her artistic and professional interests dovetail nicely. She's learning to do website design.
But yes ... that dilemna can often exist. Not always among lower-class geniuses either ... many middle class families have what amount to lower-class values in terms of what work they classify as "practical" (which often excludes art).
Yes. Especially since the poor rebel cannot simply change his mind and go back to his "normal" life as easily as the rich one. The decision to rebel will carry significant costs, and thus the attempt to succeed at art or writing or whatever must be done seriously if at all.
Im an artist, did the whole fart school crap etc. etc. However I feel I didn't have a choice about my profession, I would not be happy doing anything else, art is what is true to me therefore its something I cannot compromise. The notion of rebellion has nothing to do with my need to be an artist.
Okay Affinity, you made me like you now :) (I must be getting soft). I too am an artist and totally feel the way you do about my proffession. Brava! Brava! Yum! Yum! er...sorry Fair Enough just kinda crept in there.
No, you can be a smart conformist (Jodie) or a stupid non-conformist (Max). However, if one is smart, one tends to see the inadequacy of the standard culture for one's purposes; if one is stupid, it's harder to successfully be "different".
Exactly. Plus, our (American) society's values as represented in its public school system don't really involve intelligence. Yeah, you get grades, but it's never the emphasis. When is the last time you had a pep assembly for academics? HAHAHA....
Intelligent children of a young age tend to be more introverted and have to learn socialization skills that come naturally to many other students, and are therefore set up to be outcasts throughout their school lives... and sometimes their entire lives.
And no one really wants to deal with these people. While special teachers are hired to help less intelligent students, the higher end of students are ignored, totally bored, and easily disillusioned at an early age.
At my elementary school there was a program for "intelligent students" which was even called "IMAGE" fer chrissakes but it only accepted students that were well socialized. Who were not really the ones who NEEDED a special program, but the intelligent/non-socialized ones no one really wanted to deal with.
They're the ones who strike out, in some way, against their school, since it has, since the beginning, basically screwed them over. Sometimes they strike out against society, and often end in tragedy.
I really believe many people who have trouble with people and psychological problems-- people who have been out of school for many years now even-- often can trace it back as far as elementary school. Our school system is in a sad state.
Too bad nothing's going to be done short of a collapse in our entire society since the schools have protected their status quo with, among other things, a union so vicious and manipulative that it makes the mafia look innocent.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Not only that, but the kind of intelligence required to get good grades is (in most schools) conformist, not non-conformist. Somebody who is a true supergenius and sane enough to function (Daria) can get good grades with little effort despite her nonconformity; most smart nonconformists are either just not smart enough, or not sane enough, to do so with such ease. So it tends to be the smart conformists (the "players of the game") who become valedictorians and salutorians.
Yes. This is because human intelligence is the product of extended neotony, and hence smart kids usually take longer to mature than stupider kids ... their "extended primate childhood" (which all humans share) is a bit more "extended" (and hence "childish"). The same kind of open mind which is required for intellectual non-conformity makes learning the "rules" of social interaction harder (there's less incentive; they are boring "rules").
Because the degree of intelligence required to TEACH smart kids is higher. The teacher has to know more about his subject than those he teaches, and be ready to defend recieved wisdom against the assault of brilliant iconoclasts. I'd be pretty good at that, but not very many supergeniuses WANT to become teachers, alas (though if you could promise me that I'd be teaching other supergeniuses, I'd take the job in an instant).
Absolutely. The smart socialized ones are those who have decided to play by the rules, and play better than their less intelligent counterparts. Unfortunately, their success, within the system, does not loosen the cords of conformity tied around the non-conformists; often it is the smart conformists who are willing to lead the witch hunts.
Not all of them are lucky enough to take Philosopher Princesses to the prom ... some of them wind up NEVER being accepted, or being accepted only by even crazier people. That seems to have been what happened at Columbine High School.
Indeed it is. :(
I like that line ... too bad it's almost literally true, too. The Mafia has some qualms about hurting children, after all. The NEA has none.
On 06 Sep 1999 14:54:11 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
When I was named Scholastic Bowl conference MVP, and when I won 2nd in math and computers (on a day when I forgot my calculator) in the state math competition, they held days in my honor!
Okay, maybe not. But there was an article in the school newspaper each time.
Okay, I was on the staff and wrote the articles myself, but still!
Kyle, The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs
"Kissing is touching your lips to the better end of 66 feet of intestine"
Hey, sounds like the year Science Olympiad got into the paper. I was on the newspaper staff. I interviewed Chris Malin, the oldest member of the team, about our chances of going to state. But the next year (when we got 10th in the state so there) there was nothing.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Good point. Though in the UK we don't have pep assemblies for sports either. We do our best to avoid creating that insidious "feel-good" factor as it would undermine our national character. In Japan though they do seem to celebrate academic values, it's all intensely competitive, with after-school cramming lessons etc. However they've gone too far there.
The rest of your post is pretty much beyond adding to. Suffice it to say, if you were to add it to your website then I think you'd probably overtake Jessica Liotta in the Great Enlightenment Website stakes. (and I'm not just SAYING that, I like totally mean it in a NON- SHALLOW way.)
Hey, I didn't know I was participating in a Great Enlightenment Website stakes. How do I stay on top? I need to CRUSH my opposition! All those who stand before me shall be destroyed! MWAAAHAHAHAHA!!!
Um. The poster apologizes for the above outburst and wishes you all a lovely day/night. Really.
Well you could try and stop Dagny from turning her recent posts into articles for her website. Or you could slip me a bribe of some sort (provided it was an enlightened sort of bribe of course) and I'll leave you in the number one position regardless.
And, just in case you were wondering, I'd never make it to that top echelon of Darianitedom, so you have no worries about my being any sort of competitor, Jessica. Heck, no one's ever used anything I've ever said in my 2+ years of being online as a .sig quote *and* it's like pulling teeth getting most people to post responses to what I write, so if that's not a track record.... LOL.
On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:38:34 -0500, Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:
Pulling teeth? I wish it were that easy to get a response to some of my posts. Then again most of my posts are pretty stupid. You may have the opposite problem, your posts may be so well-worded and succinct that there is little else to say that you haven't said already.
I know what you mean. I've been posting here for over a year, lurking even longer and I still feel like an outsider for some reason. I think there may be some sort of underground mailing list where some of the regulars make fun of the rest of us. there may also be a second daria code that overlaps the public one. that is how they schedule the meetings on the top secret IRC server. Paranoid??? maybe....Paranoid like a fox.
The truth is outside....or something "Heck, no one's ever used anything I've ever said in my 2+ years of being online as a .sig quote" -Hallucinating Elvis lady
Trust me. I've been around MANY different mailing lists and such and I've not seen one singular soul (aside from here) use it.
Actually, while I'm flattered some of you decided to use that *as* a .sig quote so I can shut up about that, I was more concerned because I'd actually said some gems on this one Duran Duran mailing list I'm on and no one, not even the girl on the list who usually quotes a *heck* of a lot of people in her .sigs, has ever used anything I've said, even though I've been on said list for a year and a half. If I could get a .sig quote out of one of them I'll be happy.
Otherwise...you guys really didn't have to do that. But thank you anyway. I shall try to come up with some gems over *here* so I'll earn such a place in someone's .sig. But for right now it's not earned. Thanks anyway.
(In best Brittany voice...) Secrets? There are no secrets. What would make you think that there are any secrets being kept from you? I wouldn't ever keep a secret from you, I *mean* it! And even if I was keeping a secret from you, it would be for your own good because I know how you can mess things up when you find out things are being kept from you so believe me there are no secrets being kept from you even if there were and I know that it doesn't make sense but it's really for your own good. Okay?
BTW, has the Shepherd in the land of the Angles received the gift of the green and orange duck that started flying over the pond recently? The Red Knight needs to know if the duck has missed its target, as he will be heading to the Land of La soon...
As I was saying, no secrets are being kept from you here. You may resume normal activities.
"rich."
Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
On the mountaintop, "Martin Sylvester" spake thusly:
The Blue Pawn wants to know if the Duck from the East has yet begun the pilgrimage to the Isle of Salt, for purposes of synchronizing her travel in the Hour of Nodd.
The Shepherd knows nothing of such things. He trusts this query is directed to Another from the East.
Returning now to manic packing (since the old school chum who might have been - very kindly - transporting a carload of stuff on Tuesday is meeting clients that evening, and so is now - very kindly - calling with an empty car *tomorrow*!)
Ah, but dear Martin, it is the red banche who knows such a thing. Aaaaahhh! The Hour of Nodd has descended upon the sea of ambitions! Run!! Or thee shall sleep in peace forever!
The Red Knight's heart will be gladened by the news, as he needs must set the affairs of his keep in order before he journeys, and he would have difficulty accomodating the duck and his burden again while not present at the keep.
But first we have to tell him our evil plans, then put him in an easily-escapable situation where, if he escapes (which of course is impossible) he will be ridiculously close to foiling our evil plan, which he has been enlightened about due to our own twisted sense of Evil Villain duty.
Because that's how it's *done.* Everyone knows that.
-Mindy
"I think I'm a mushroom... I must be a mushroom! Everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me bulls***!" -Ward Rubrecht
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/
Kill him and all of the other "Outsiders" like me will raid the secret a.t.d. bunker that the "regulars" believe only they know about,(thats right we know all about it and where it is) steal all the secrets from the vault and take over! Either that or we will all just watch TV or read a book or something else thats Daria related. Who's with me? :-)
I'm afraid it's time for all you outsiders to hand over your tribute of enlightened bribes to the Secret Chiefs of ATD. If you do not comply we will reboot our TDH bot and let him rampage through the newsgroup again. (Just a little enlightened threat, as it were.)
Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote in message news:[email]...
Are you people NUTS!?
This is a DARIA newsgroup. Daria--our heroine--the ultimate outsider. There are no outsiders here! Outside-ism is prohibited here.
Let's have no more talk about being an outsider. There's far too much of that IRL as it is. You can say anything, you can be anything, you can talk about anything and no one here will condemn you for it. (unless they really ARE an outsider.) There is no seniority, no priority, no superiority, and anyone who makes claims to such is--an outsider. It must be so. Study the group and you'll see I'm right (I'm almost always right.)
On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:45:50 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:
What is a Renaissance Fair? Do they show pictures of naked people? What else has Renaissance got to offer :-) MSB (who is busy working on his "Sleeping Daria")
Sorry no naked people :( But they had a lot of cool booths with wares of all sorts and different foods and about 70% of the people there dressed up. I bought a Rennaissance dress too! Okay, so it was an expensive treat for $250, but it's really cool! (somehow that was more convincing in my head...) You could say it was alot like 'Fair Enough' but a little more realistic. Oooh it was *so* fun... *wistful look crosses face*
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:13:39 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:
Ohh :-( Then maybe you are pleased to hear that my Daria-remake of Giorgione's "Sleeping Venus" is taking shape. I'm currently struggling with the legs. All of my sketches so far look like she's been in a very bad car accident. All bent and twisted. But I'll keep trying till I get it right. MSB
First, you take away my cocoa. Now, you remind me that the Faire has moved even further away. :( I don't know *what* I said to make you treat me so, but I'm very, very, *very* sorry.
You'll be really glad you opted to go in costume, I think you'll have an even greater time. The other people in costume and the crazy folks who run the place will interact with you and when you really get into it, it just becomes a gaint BLAST!
My wife and I and two other couples went every year for about eight years. It took three years for us guys to get our costumes just right. We went as a Lady, her two handmaidens, and three men-at-arms as escorts. A good time was had by all. After the right number of real ales, the chain mail wasn't as heavy as when we started.
Please tell us (or at least me if no one else is interested) how your trip was. Thanks in advance.
Okaaaay fine. Sugarless cocoa :) Gosh I can't believe you remember that (I personally thought of it as one of my best comedic timing moments).
<snippity snippity snippity snoo!)
I know, It's way better. I got a couple of "How fair thee my lady?" from some very ummm, 'attractive' suitors... Oh yeah, those other people were cool too. :)
Wow. Eight years? That's real fun. The Faire is 33 years old now huh? I wish I had a costume last year. All I need is a dagger for my belt and I shall be content...until I see another thing I want anyway. I'm going again in October so I'll shop around.
I would love to tell about it if others are willing to hear. If not I'll just e-mail you. And your welcome in advance.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~
Helen- Well, Jane, since everyone is occupied, why don't we have a
little...
Jane- (grabs milk carton) Vitamin D, 200%. Vitamin A, 100%...
*Are you an angel? Am I already that gone?*- sarah mclachlan
It was. Had me ROTF. I'm just sorry that no one took me up on the offer to go to Lawndale. ;)
from
were
<cue wavy lines> On year we went on the weekend when all of the gays empty out of San Francisco and go to the Faire. I've never been hit on so many times in one day in my life. Lines like "Ooo, I like my men in chains" or "How does your other sword compare to the one you're wearing?" What a riot! I never saw so many queens in one place. <end wavy lines>
eight
right.
I
I
Does the ironmonger still set up shop? He'll make up whatever you want. Bit pricy though.
I'll
Looks like there is at least one more who's interested.
Oh that's cool someone laughed! I am a comedic success! I would like to go to Lawndale, but then I'd have to take away *my* cocoa too, and I'm really enjoying the steaming, hot, chocolatey-ness...
lol! I can just picture that! lol! <Takes her 15 minutes to calm down, and reassure roomies that she isn't really nuts>
Sounds good. I'll check it out.
Okay, I'll gather my thoughts and get it together...
Sad, but true. In honor of the early US space program the only beverage served on SpaceRanger flights is warm Tang(tm). You can carry on a little flask though, I know the pilot does. ;)
I am, too! I wanted to go to the Faire while I was down in California recently, but various irritating circumstances--namely, no one was free to go with me--prevented it. :-( Perhaps I can at least live it vicariously through Cheryl. (Who, incidentally, spells her name just like my Aunt Cheryl.)
Okay, and so begins my tale, I'll try to be as descriptive as possible...
Lessee, I drove up from my home in fremont about an hour away to the sunny little spot called Nut Tree in Vacaville (near Sacramento). After parking the car I saw a lot of people going to the Faire in costume. There was this one pair of women that made their outfits all out of leather and Indian like materials. They went as Amazons I believe. One girl had knee high leather boots and her top was made out of hawk wings. They had feathery headresses and neat iron spears about as tall as Michael Jordan. Very interesting looking (they must have been stopped by fifty people to get their picture taken before even getting to the gate). Anyway, after I got my ticket and all, I entered the faire itself and boy was it busy! The first few shops were a rent-an-outfit place and a huge tent full of hats of every kind. There were some pretty shap ones in there with plumes of peacock feathers, and velvet, and every colored hat imaginable. From there I took the path down to the centere square of the faire. They had a stone well where women, all costumed, sung songs and pretended to do the wash. They greedted everyone in thee's and thou's and were very merry. In fact everyone that worked the faire seemed to love their job. On the quaint little center square stage they had a comedy about a girl who is *so* in love with this guy and he fusses over her, and all until she exits the stage anyway. Then he starts telling how awful she is and making funny condescending comments. Very well acted out. I walked around just looking at all the different booths selling leather shoes, pewter works(I got a cool wicca pentagram neckalace here), and different foods. Then I decided just to have a *little* peek at the dress shop. Of course I wouldn't spend this kinda money on a dress ... until I was all suited up (hardly able to breathe in the damn bodice thank you very much:) and was liking what I saw that is. Now this dress is cool, It has a silk red bodice, a black off the shoulder blouse, as well as over skirt, and a red underskirt. And it doesn't much help that the sales woman was throwing sales pitches a mile-a-minute from: "Look how the red accents your hair!" to "Oh it's only $250 for it. Good price eh?" So, I caved and nearly threw my credit card at her. I know,I suck! But dammit I looked good for at least one day! I moved on down the long walks of booths, and many people. It was unbelievably hot! I saw the maypole with cute little kids spinning on it's benches, an all wood merry go round, The knights of the round table on the 2nd stage, and had a good beer or two. Then I came to the 'London section' of the faire, where I tried some archery, got some ice cream (not to mention a number...) and saw a parade. It was a "Death Procession". They had people in all black with skull masks, and bells, and grim reaper scythes and these instruments that sounded like rattling bones. Before the parade the people in black pretended to creep around the faire hiding behind people and boothes and stuff. That was interesting. I also saw the queens procession. They had servants, followed by handmaidens and noble women, then her protecting men-at-arms, and finally the queen on a throne carried by some of the stronger guys. Man her dress was something! Lots and lots of people shouting, "God save the queen!" crowded all over. I looked through the Asian section of the Renn Faire, peeked in on the henna booth, and the little hindu statuettes. And the joust! That was fun, and the horses were so beautiful! The blue knight got all the rings off the quintain and on his lance...so he obviously won. I saw the games in the 'Ireland section', where they had a 'stone the cyclops' game, dunk the village idiot, a turtle race (now that was something) and many, many fortune telling booths (I'm supposedly going to have effortless prosperity coming, and have trouble in romance...:( None of these booths were anything like Ms. Barch though, thank the higher powers.
Ummm, I do believe that is all, and I better stop this madness befor it gets huge, this post is already way to long. And that is the end!
Don't have one. I forgot my camera because yes, I'm just that stupid. I kept berating myself for that one. Maybe I'll be so fortunate as to get pictures next time...
The origins of this sort of thing are interesting too. The High Middle Ages was a rather cheerful time (as cheerful as pre-industrial times could get, anyway), but in the 14th century the Black Death hit, and demoralized all of Christendom. The horror was greater because the Death seemed to strike down all, rich and poor alike, even the healthy who normally shook off fevers and the like.
There were many cultural responses. One of them was a sort of macabre humor, a recognition that death waited all around everyone and an attempt to make it homey and familiar, losing its terrors. That's the origin of the sort of procession you saw.
(another product of this was the children's song "Ring Around the Rosies")
Ring Around the Rosies [the rosy blemishes are the first sign of the incipent Death]
a pocket full of posies [flowers were a common way of trying to ward off the "bad air" that supposedly brought the contagion]
Ashes, ashes [comes from "achoo", the sneezing that indicated pneumonic plague, the worst variant of the Death]
We all fall down [dead].
See :)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
That's sort of like the Mexican Catholic people with little happy skeletons and weird death things... I'm trying to remember this from 8th grade....
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon
The Day of All the Dead. I don't know if that festival has Aztec, Spanish medieval, or combined origins.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
You mean "Dia de los Muertes", or "Day of the Dead"? Yeah, I've celebrated it a few times myself...quite a few Mexican-American Catholic families do, in fact. It's a tradition that comes from a mixture of Catholic teachings and native tribal rituals. What Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who do this is (can't remember the exact order, it's been a long time since last I did this):
(1) a private ceremony in the home to celebrate the deceased members of the house held in this highly decorated altar that would normally be put up in the place of highest honor in the home. This altar would be decorated with the deceased person's/persons' favorite things, like favorite candies and photos, and would be lit up with candles.
(2) a small celebratory feast in the home
(3) a processional to the cemetery where the family member(s) is/are buried, usually done along with many other people who are doing much the same thing; usually many festive signs, decorations, etc., are being held up at the time of the processional, and there is singing along the way
(4) a vigil prayer ceremony that takes place in the cemetery, where families will often bring their large feasts and sit down to a large feast right on the burial spots where their family member(s) is/are buried...this goes on well into the night, as families sing religious songs and burn candles and such
I also remember a smallish thing done at school for Dia de los Muertos, where our Spanish teachers would bring in "Pan de Muerto" (a special bread prepared for this day shaped in the form of a human body, with little decorations) for us to eat, and the annual "Dia de los Muertos" poetry book passed around (the poems, little humorous memorials about the teachers in school written as if they had passed away, were written by the Spanish III Honors students -- I wrote two myself; I should post them if I could find them). And we also had a little memorial of our own in the main lobby area, with pictures of deceased family members, candles, and plastic flowers adorning the covered surface.
Just for the record, (a regional variation? North West England)
As kids we used to say "Atishoo, atishoo, we all fall down". That is, make the sneezing sound/onomatopaeia. I'd never heard the "Ashes" variant until recently.
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
On 20 Sep 1999 11:55:56 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
We also used to sing 'atishoo, atishoo', and that was down in southern England. I've never heard of it as 'ashes, ashes.' And we were well aware of the Black Death connection - it's the sort of grim detail which young minds love. It really makes you think...
When we were children, we always sang it with "Ashes, ashes, we all fall down." My niece has a doll that sings "Ring Around The Rosy" and I believe that's the way the doll sings it too. It's probably a US thing. Were're forever changing words to suit ourselves... ;)
Marie
"Life cannot defeat a writer who is in love with writing - for life itself is a writer's love until death." -Edna Ferber
SInce this was a playground song, I somehow doubt the answer is "a three corps mechanized drive south on Saigon".
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
I'm from Malaysia, which was once a British colony, and we use "Atishoo, atishoo, we all fall down" too. The "Ashes, ashes" bit is most probably a US thing. Damn you Americans and your strange ways!
On second thought, it probably isn't safe saying that since I'm in the US at the moment... *looks around her frantically*
Paranoid-ly yours,
Nicle Chbat, Eelcitreon of Midol Also known as LadyKender on IRC and ICQ. The Darianite Revolution at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/daria.htm Kendermore at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/
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Ah, don't worry. We stopped attacking people who attack the American way a while ago. Now, we attack people who attack Communism.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made... and the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls and whispered in the sounds of silence" Paul Simon
You know, he probably believed it. Many, many moons ago, when stationed in Georgia, the locals called us federals and many considered us an occupation army. Twas quite weird.
Well, it's that whole "burning everything down" bit that happened about 134 years ago-- some folks down here just can't let it go. Hell, in Jr. High, I was taught that it was called "The War Between the States," "The War For Southern Independence, " and "The War of Northern Aggression." And this was 1984. (Of course, all of these titles are used a little tongue-in-cheek, but most people down here still don't refer to it as "The Civil War.")
rich. Who prefers "The Recent Unpleasantness" for his euphemism.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:34:57 -0400, "R. K. Henry" wrote:
Just wondering: Everybody's talking about the Yanks, why don't you ever mention the Shoves. MSB (who just wants to demonstrate what he learned from Lucasfilm adventures)
Your faire experience reminds me of friends of mine who are members of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Its a medieval group so they have feats, dress up in their courtly attire and clink goblets over fatted pigs. They also have tournaments and fight in full plate mail with swords, halberds and occasionally bow and arrows.
The SCA is a global organization, so if your into that sort of thing I'm sure there's a group near you to join.
Tried to talk the wife into going this year and taking the mutant pigs along, dressing them up as street urchin purse thieves. Alas, too much going on at her work to get away for a while.
/me is totally floored. Yeah, totally. OMG, wow. What does one say? Um...just "wow".
Oh yeah, and Renaissanace Faires...you guys are making them sound so cool...hm, maybe I should check out our local Renaissanace Faire sometime in the near future.
Well, you were complaining about not being in anyones .sig file. Had to wait for a good one and it didn't take long.
sometime in
You should. They are a blast.
<hehe> You see, it starts slowly. First one, then two, then everybody who's anybody starts using Hallucinating Elvis Lady's wisdom in their .sig files. As we visit other forums, others become exposed to the wisdom of H.E.L. Soon, all of UseNet will be beating a path to your door, to drink up such wisdom at the very original server. Then you are pronounce the Queen of Usenet and have a long and happy reign.
I think it all started as an inner circle cabal thing, but I can't say for sure. ;)
Anyone can feel free to use the following .sig, as I'm going back to the 'my dear child' one. I think it best expresses the Hallucinating Elvis Ladyness in atd.
Um, well I didn't expect anyone to really do *anything* about it, really. Usually when I complain about something in other forums it's as if I complained to the wind as no one does a single thing about it except maybe to say, "um, yeah" or something along those lines.
I will, someday in the near future. Wonder if I'll run into my old high school friend Jamie.
(Jamie, for your information, really loved our local Renaissance Faires. She used to go every year dressed as a fairy or something along those lines. She also was the one person to introduce me to Nine Inch Nails as she had this *huge* thing for them, especially lead singer Trent [heh heh] Reznor. Alas, she was two grades ahead of me and so the last time I saw her was towards the end of my sophomore year.
/me is howling with laughter. And no, you don't hear any cackles.
But I don't *want* to be in any "inner circle cabal thing".
"Best expresses" me? *That* quote? Uhhh...I don't think that's something I really should be proud of....
Ah...I get it. Danke schoen * for the explanation. Thought I was being thought of as someone who didn't know a single darn thing. That is a much better quote to be associated with, if I do say so myself. So, thanks.
*: those are two of a few words I know in German, along with "alles gut", "Deutschland", and "auf weidershen" (sp?)...doesn't constitue an actual grasp of the language...just felt I needed to clear that up
On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:07:14 -0500, Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:
Reminds me of my knowledge of Spanish: "Hasta la vista.", "por favor", "Usted hablas Espa�ol" (or was it "hablas usted .."). However, I can understand written texts to a certain degree by extrapolating from French. BTW, it's "Auf Wiedersehen". MSB
p.s.: Are you sure that you don't know the following words, too: "Bayern","M�nchen","Oktoberfest","Bier" Just needed to mention this because the Oktoberfest (the "Wiesn" as Bavarians call it) just started a few days ago. If someone wants to pay it a quick visit (and has the money for the flight), I might be able to convince my parents to let you have our guest bed.
actually, it's "Hablas Espanol" The usted is kinda optional.
I know Blitzkrieg. And, coincidentally enough, blitz and krieg.
Kyle
He complained when I hit him. All my friends do. Wusses.
i hate dolphins. they aren't remotely cute. and i bet the only reason they aren't covered in shit like pigs are, is because they live in the sea and the water washes it off.
When I learned "ein bier bitte" I was also taught "wo ist die herren bitte?" (sp?) for when you need to get rid of the bier afterwards, and "enschuldigen" (sp?) for when you stumble into people in a drunken haze.
In Bavaria the waitress will probably ask "A mass or a hoibe mass ?" which is Bavarian for "Haetten Sie gerne einen ganzen Liter oder nur einen halben Liter?" ("Would you like a full liter or only half a liter?")
Either that or she'll give you an appraising look and discard the thought of bringing you a full liter. At least if she mistakes you for an American :-)
"TOILETTE" (is missing here, you don't mean HerrenUMKLEIDE or HerrenDUSCHE or HerrenANPROBE)
SIE (is missing here, unless you meant "EntschuldigUNG" which doesn't need a pronoun)
Tempting offer... I'm on vacation this week. Though, actually, it's my wife's ancestors who hail from Bavaria. She's an Oelschlager. Mine are from the Black Forest and the Baar. My great great grandfather, Martin Trichtinger, was an innkeeper in Trossingen. On my mom's side, the Wickmanns were from Baden.
And, no, I still can't speak German. In junior high, I signed up to take it, but was switched to French because the only German class was the same period as band. So now, I can do French pretty well, but can barely figure out German.
Looking for a TDR here, and not coming up with much... Daria and foreign languages... Language teachers at Lawndale... How about Daria joins the Latin Club? No, not a chance....We know Jane's take Spanish...Probably Daria, too, from the first "Daria Day".... Nope, not coming up with anything.
I thought Daria took French..? Knowing how intelligent she is, it probably wouldn't be too hard for her to take French and automatically connect a bit with Spanish since the two languages are related (even if distantly...Spanish and Italian is most similar I think).
i find french MUCH harder.. a lot of people in my spanish class had tremendous difficulty with pronounciation of "j" etc, but as i started off learning greek i had no problem there.
Not necessarily true. I once took a French-Spanish survey course a few years back and discovered my Spanish accent is crap. I simply could not do it (and still can't today). Yet for some inexplicable reason I pronounced French almost as naturally as if I'd been speaking it for years and years. That was what helped me decide on French over Spanish as a language to try. Of course there was the year spent in Japanese but that's another story altogether.
On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:10:04 -0500, Hallucinating Elvis Lady wrote:
<sigh> When will Americans finally make up their minds on what is a girl's and what is a boy's name. I wonder how companies figure out if they should address a customer as Mr or Mrs in a letter. MSB
Matthias Benkmann wrote in message news:[email]...
I think as a very rough rule of thumb: if the given name ends in a vowel, it's either a child or a female. But like all rules of thumb, it has so many exceptions that it's almost useless. There's always someone who spells their name in such a strange way that you can't guess. And there are the foreign names. In the U.S. we're living with, working with, and mailing letters to, people who have come here from just about every country on Earth. You just have to do the best you can and hope you don't offend anyone.
I've noticed that most companies addressing letters seem to be increasingly dropping the title altogether unless they have some information in their database. When you fill out an order or an application they might have a title preference field so you can specify whether you want to be addressed as "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Miss", or "Ms.", otherwise they often don't bother putting in a title.
Of course if you're writing an important business letter to someone in hopes of getting a job, making a sale, or some other important correspondence, it's incumbent upon you to do your research and find out the person's name so you can make a good first impression.
I know someone who does just that for a billing agency. The way he does it is to go with the most common usage. Sometimes, with the harder ones he calls me for advice (since I have several name books). If he can't decide, he puts "Dear Mr or MS..." He is confined to a wheelchair at present so this is a good job for him.
Marie
"Life cannot defeat a writer who is in love with writing - for life itself is a writer's love until death." -Edna Ferber
On 01 Oct 1999 12:31:12 GMT, [email] (MarieRoss) wrote:
Probably around the same time that holier-than-thou non-Americans stop blaming America for every single ill of the world and beyond...
Martin
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On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:14:24 -0400, Martin J. Pollard wrote:
Oh, don't worry. In real life, I criticize Germany and Europe in general a lot, too. Especially the censorship issue (though not sex-related) is a problem here, too. But as this forum is US-dominated I don't think many of you would discuss "lack of free speech in Germany" with me, right? Or does someone want to discuss with me the evils of not having separation between church and state? And who wants to hear me rant about how lethargic and reluctant Germans are when it comes to fighting for their beliefs. If my comments sounded like I would believe America is fucked up and Europe is the garden of Eden, I want to apologize. My real opinion is that the WHOLE WORLD is fucked up and that there are only regional differences regarding _what_ is fucked up the most. MSB
The irony of this issue is that America is the country which forbids a link between church and state, and yet the state is riddled with Christianity from top to bottom. ISTM that presidents can't even open their mouths without mentioning God, whilst schools ban books and entire subjects which are offensive to certain brands of Christianity. In stark contrast we have the UK where bishops actually have a vote in the House of Lords, and the teaching of Christianity is compulsory in schools, and yet the practical impact of Christianity on the state here is vanishingly small. Go figure.
Michelle Klein-Hass wrote in message news:[email]...
link
Didn't Machiavelli say something like, "It is most useful for a prince to *seem* religious"?
yet
small.
Ditto. And remember that - I mean no disrespect to anyone by my next remark - the Church of England was set up in order to bring Christians under state control. It's Church of England bishops (many of them fine, committed, outspoken Christians) who sit in the Lords, and whatever their personal qualities, they are part of the establishment.
Perhaps the UK way of doing things is more effective in lessening the influence of Christian faith on public policy.
People here will differ as to whether that's good or bad, of course.
On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 14:11:54 GMT, [email] (Matthias Benkmann) wrote:
*chuckle* No, probably not. Actually, on the whole I'd rather be discussing "Daria." :-)
Accepted and understood. Though, you never *did* make any mention of Europe in your posts; it was always "America this" and "America that," so it was hard to tell exactly *what* you thought of Europe. If you'd tossed in a few zingers aimed at your neighbors, that would've avoided the whole issue. :-) (And yeah, I generally agree with you for the most part; I guess it's a lot easier to see what's going on across the street than what's happening underneath your feet, eh?)
Martin
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On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:30:13 -0400, Martin J. Pollard wrote:
No problem. Well, I think the UK got its share already in the sex ed debate, I mentioned Germany in the previous message, so let's pick another neighbour. Ah, let's take our buddies from France. At least concerning laws, France is the most undemocratic country in Europe. If I wanted to start WW3, I would start it in France. Free speech is practically non-existant, you're not even allowed to choose the language you want to express yourself with and the press-laws (that were just recently made even stricter) mock the idea of free press. Furthermore, with the influx of people from former colonies, racism finds fertile soil and they are probably the most militaristic country in Europe anyway. Want me to go on or choose another target? How about Switzerland? The only allies to the Nazis that not only got away with it but even made a profit out of it. If someone wants to know more about the dark side of Europe (or any other country in the world) just say so. I can say something bad about every country. MSB
Oh, King Leopold's horrendously cruel colonization of the Congo, of course. And Victorian white-slavery rings.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Course, the Maoris killed many of the aforementioned flightless birds (albiet rather BIG ones). And then there were no moa ... ;-)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Switzerland was neutral during the Second World War, Finland on the other hand was a "co-belligerent" with the Nazis during what they called the Continuation War (1941-1944), remaining a democracy throughout, the Finnish Government survived the war.
On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:10:01 +0100, Brett Paul Dunbar wrote:
Yes, that's why they were able to make money out of it. They didn't get their hands dirty in the killing. They just hoarded gold and money stolen from the Jews murdered by the Nazis. I think they even froze Jewish accounts on the Nazis' behalf. There's still a lot of unclaimed Jewish money hidden in Swiss accounts. It's the same with drug lords and all kinds of international terrorists. If you have money, you're welcome in Switzerland. And their capitalism must be contagious. One of my uncles lives in Switzerland. Listening to him is pretty scary sometimes. MSB
In David Brin's novel _Earth_, part of the past "future history" is that it turned out that the "Gnomes of Zurich" conspiracy theory was true, and the UN fought a war that finally crushed Switzerland.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
To add to this, Finland was attacked by Russia in the Winter War (1939-40) and allied with Germany more because Germany was the only power in a position to get her back her lost territory than out of any sympathy with Naziism. Allied sympathies with Finland were such that Stalin didn't dare invade Finland once the Finns offered a truce (the Russians got back Karelia though).
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Heh heh, my name is Daryl. There are times I get ads for womens underwear, addressed to Mrs. Daryl Sawyer... and I don't have a wife. It's odd to think of my name as female, but I suppose there is Daryl Hanna.
Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR O Os m c- MV- C5X F102,209,308 BB+ FCJ +DT++ q FS:p
Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.
That's right. There used to be a lot of rules here, but in the end we whittled them down to just one, which is written on the wall: "everyone is equal. but some people are more equal than others."
animal farm rules. the teacher talked about my journal on it, so she liked it. however, she decided that my group's essay didn't even answer the question which I really don't understand and pissed me off especially since the class thought it was very good and placed it right after the obvious first
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Perhaps you were LESS equal than the other animals ...
Was this the same teacher who wrote questions like "Why was Clinton miffed" and expected comprehension of them? Or is this endemic in your faculty?
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
That was Mr. Moss. He was a Government teacher and- big suprise here- football coach. Yeah, "Why was Clinton miffed?" "What traditions have continued?" "What did the supreme court decide in 1989?"
The English teacher is the woman Katie affectionately refers to as "Dark Schneider".
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
You read John Grisham? Eww... Actually, the Justices tell the Clerks to write the opinion justifying their decision. The clerk's job is to make a purely ideological decision appear rational, carefully-thought-out, and well-reasoned. Ha. The Justice will read the opinion, and make changes where s/he feels it's necessary, but most of the scut work is done by the Clerks.
The only Grisham book I ever read, "Pelican Brief," was so unbelieveable it was laughable. Nobody'd ever pay that kind of attention to a law student. Utter nonsense.
rich.
Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:11:17 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:
Well, first of all, the only reason they did pay any attention to her was because the killer's financee was crazy, and started killing people connected to the brief. That's what legitimized it.
Secondly, it's not really typical Grisham. Typical Grisham has way more courtroom stuff.
Kyle, The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs
"Kissing is touching your lips to the better end of 66 feet of intestine"
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:11:17 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:
Especially because it violates the prime rule of conspiring. Never show any interest (not to speak of killing) in someone who tells the truth. If you do, everyone will know the person's right. MSB
When Hell freezes over and they offer ski lifts and snowboarding, and you can make little "snow hellions" in the frosty weather.
Diane, I'll tell you, when I first joined this lovely little group here I *so* wanted to be you. I was in total "Diane Awe" I was like "Wow, everyone likes her. She's funny, she's creative, she's been here awhile, and she has got a cool name..." Seriously, I was totally jealous of you.
No way, get out of here. Someone, especially someone like you, jealous, of me? And...I am utterly speechless. That was a very interesting and unusual thing to say as people don't usually get jealous of types like me. I do admire you so much. And the name? "Hallucinating Elvis Lady"? LOL, thanks, but credit Duran Duran for that...I took the name after I went to go see them (ps - rich, part III's coming real soon) and I loved their new material, especially "Hallucinating Elvis". And the "Lady" part comes from another new song they have, a song they didn't perform, called "Lady Xanax". (I know, weird conceptual-type song titles)
I do hope you realize just how fantastic you are. You needn't be jealous of someone like me. Noooo. But it was really eye-opening and curiously sweet for you to have said something like that. :)
"I was Hallucinating Elvis, Hawaii to Las Vegas"....
(p.s.: I'm on Deja 'cos I'd read this post but hadn't a chance to respond to it 'cos it was so late last night when I finally caught up with this ng...so I set up a Deja account so I could properly respond...man has this changed since last I was here!)
"It may or may not be significant, but English is the only language in the world whose leading idioms contain insults which revolve around the suggestion that the insultee is of above average intelligence, eg - "Smart arse", "highbrow", "too clever by half" etc." -- Andrew Dennis.
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
On 12 Sep 1999 22:30:26 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
The Klugscheisser (smart shitter) is the smartass equivalent. "Intelligenzbestie" is just a harmless mock term you use for someone who is very smart something like "Eierkopf" (egghead, this exists in English, too, doesn't it?). As I see it, it doesn't imply any negative traits of character (except for intelligence itself which a lot of ordinary people consider a bad trait). MSB
What exactly is an enlightened bribe? Does it accept all lifestyles and sexual orientations? Or do I just slip you some like tofu and homemade soap and stuff? We wouldn't want it to be something capitalist like money. How enlightened is that?
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Homemade soap? Is that where you stick the little bits left over from old soap bars together? I think an enlightened bribe is one of those indefinable things that you only know when you see them, hopefully more a paradox than an oxymoron. I suppose tofu is a paradox - it looks and tastes like latex yet people consider it a food. Any attempt to bribe me with tofu is doomed to failure though unless you can perform a miracle with its taste.
Actually maybe an enlightened bribe is when you bribe someone even though you're not the one whose behind in the running - bribing for the sake of it instead of out of selfish need.
that's like one of those things they sell at "enlightened" stores this like special organic woo hoo cool great soap. Better than the MLM soap our city was built on probably but other than that pretty stupid.
Ah. Bribery as a form of altruism, charity. A gift. Heheh :) Where will this lead? Enlightened threats? "No, I'm not threatening, I'm offering you an option. Either you hand me all that money, or I will blow your head off. It's up to you."... hmm...
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Amway. They have a nice hotel here. It's the place for like famous people and people with tons of money to stay and stuff to happen. They have as much impact here as the furniture even.
Sounds like my mother, although she doesn't wave guns around, but whenever she threatens me she says "I'm giving you a choice".
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phony and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
On 09 Sep 1999 19:28:51 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
I *like* tofu, damn it! Somebody please tell me it's not just my Asian genes that's causing this...
ps: I'm not saying you don't Dagny, it's just you mentioning tofu reminded me of my love for the stuff, while others seem to have this hatred/fear towards it.
Secret meeting's on Thursday this week, again? I've told you I can't make Thursdays! I didn't put the secret message protocol into the code just to be excluded from meetings! You're kicking me out, aren't you? You'll arrange a new code at that meeting, then I won't be in your "circle" any more! hah, I'm wise to your plans! I'll contact the Good Guys! But then die before the end of the movie! Hah :P
I don't know about raw tofu, but I did come up with a way to make tofu palatable: Marinate cake tofu (the firm, sponglike type) in Worcestershire sauce for a few hours, then saute it in a little margarine (or go for the real butter -- it's all fat anyway). Yummy!
And then, there's always soy bacon. I love that stuff the way Mindy loves her Mountain Dew.
On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:26:23 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:
One of my Negaitivland albums has a track called "Fake Bacon & Electronic Music Hotline" On the track David Wills (aka the Weatherman) describes how he was inspired to build a "Booper" after eating Morningstar bacon. He claims that he got "excited" after eating the bacon (while listening to Kraftwerk) and started taking a radio apart. He isolated and removed the amplifier circuit from the radio and wired the output into the input and added components until it started generating controllable feedback. Sizzling bacon can be heard in the background through the whole track along with zylophone music and booper tones. He credits Morningstar for inspiring him to build all sorts of electronic music gadgets. The track ends when someone confused Morningstar with Sizzlean and the Weatherman gets upset and starts pouring club soda into the pan of frying bacon.
The Weatherman doesn't know why he craves Morningstar or why it inspires his pursuits in electronic music.
For more information on fake bacon and electronic music please visit your local library.
Not too kindly -- 4 months since I took my oath and so far only I haven't gotten an interview with a firm or even a state agency -- yet. However, things are looking up -- I have an interview soon (& I'll tell all about it after it comes to pass b/c I don't want to jinx it. Yes, job hunitng makes me a bit superstitious). Anyway, I still have my current job because of my MBA, but I'm tired of working in a plant office with no windows & doing commodities contracts and literally dreaming about freight terms until I'm ready to kill the next SOB who asks me to explain F.O.B.
And, about the dreaming part -- I haven't been doing much of that b/c of some serious insomnia. Sleep-deficit disorder SUCKS. I'd go to a sleep-disorders clinic, if I had any medical insurance. Which is another reason why I'm job-hunting -- I have become a perma-temp at this current job, which means I work 40+ hours a week with no benefits & a slim chance that the company will hire me permanently (unless they wise up & get in-house legal counsel & stop sending everything up to New York). So, I work my 40+ hours (unless there's a holiday like there was this week, which hurts financially b/c perma-temps do NOT get paid holidays) and spend most of the time in front of a computer, in a not-so-comfy chair, eating lunch at my desk, spending all day inside a windowless office, and then come home & spend another couple of hours in front of a computer checking websites for jobs & typing up cover letters & resumes. Meanwhile, I'm spending what little I make on student loan repayments (about an entire month's pay) & resume paper (that stuff is NOT cheap -- what the hell do employers have against good ol' 20 pound white bond???), and wanting my own apartment again (you know what it's like to have to move back in with your parents when you're in your thirties?) and trying to get enough $ to fix up my Mac Plus so that it's usable again & I don't have to fight with the rest of the family for the one computer in the house that has 'Net access. And with everything going on in my life, I haven't gotten more than 2-3 hours of sleep a night in the last 2 months. (Except on weekends).
Which is why, dear 'Pusher, you haven't seen me in a while. Hopefully once I get my life back on track & start practicing law (& not just staring at contracts & purchase orders)and make more than $7.50 an hour (Alabama has the WORST wages & salaries & most employers do not pay people what they're worth), you might see more of me. For now, my converastions on this n.g. will be relegated mostly to weekends (in the wee hours of the morning, when the computer's available). Meanwhile, I'm going to try to get myself to sleep by reading my latest issue of ABA Journal, rereading my Intellectual Property nutshell, & thinking about where I can scrape up a few buck to get that new kick-ass 7th ed. of Black's Law Dictionary. With any luck, I should fall asleep around dawn. Maybe some hot milk & some Morningstar Farms bacon will get me drowsy.
BTW, congrats on becoming an uncle!
Chirping the night away ('cuz I sure as hell won't be sleeping it away -- and I'm out of bacon. DAMN!)
Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya, if it'll be any help. It took me 6 months to land my first job after I took my oath, so I know that the whole job hunt can rrrreally suck. Especially when you have to do interviews with lawyers. *Shudder.* (Here's a tip-- ask the interviewing attorney a lot of questions about themselves and the firm, and try to talk as little as possible. You'll stick out in their minds as being a wonderful candidate because you showed interest in their favorite topic-- themselves. Don't laugh. It actually works.)
I hear ya there, too. The worst part is when you're working as an attorney, and you still can't sleep for various reasons I'm not at liberty to discuss. :P That's why I got the hell out of both litigation and criminal defense. Real Estate isn't much better, but I can get about 2-3 more hours of sleep a night.
Does your state bar association have a Group plan? The NCBA has a great group plan. Costs me about $68/mo., and I get presciptions. BTW, having to self-insure just about everything is par for the course if you go the contract attorney route. (Although the nice thing about contract attorney jobs is that they have a definite beginning and ending, and you're not stuck at the stupid firm. They're also not bad if you want to get a taste for practice in a certain area of law.)
Law has to be one of the most frustrating fields to job-hunt in. I've been there, believe me. Lawyers have to be some of the most frustrating people to deal with, especially when you need work from one of them. (But you already knew that, dincha?)
Ah, yes, the ABA Journal-- one of the finest sleep aids you can get without a presciption. ;-) Well, actually, the second-finest. The finest has to be the Real Property, Probate and Trust Journal. Just mentioning it makes me sleepy. ;-)
Thanks. I didn't really do much though. All I need now is half of a stick of Juicy Fruit gum, covered in lint. ;-)
Hang in there, hang in there...
rich.
Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
Nicole Lee, who is rather tall for a Lady Kender, said:
I think it's ok. It's not my favorite food component, but I wouldn't avoid it or anything.
I'm Northeast European, so it's probably some Asian genes that came over with the Mongols. Those Asian jeans had to be tough cause those Mongrels could ride for days. Which is odd cause dogs don't usually ride horses.
On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:31:38 +1030, "<Affinity>" wrote:
Most definitely not!
Personally, I hate non-conformism. It is NOT the same as individuality. Non-conformism is the conscious decision to do the opposite of whatever everyone else is doing, and is no better than conformity. Individuality is just being yourself, whatever that may be.
This just reaks of WWDD?, and the intellectual elitism that can so easily crop up in places like this. Personally, I don't see how intelligence is a more desirable trait than looks, personality, athletic ability, or whatever else you want.
Kyle, The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs
"Kissing is touching your lips to the better end of 66 feet of intestine"
no... there's always morons who rebel against everything for no good reason. similarly there's intelligent people who can't be bothered, not to conform.
i would have said artists were seen as intelligent. dunno. and i've met some pretty bloody stupid doctors. lol.
It's not simply a matter of seeing through "society's charade." Society, in general, tends to be content to go along with the status quo (whatever it might be at any particular time). The nonconformists, however, as someone pointed out before, are not happy with or cannot accept these conformities of social behavior and seek their own out. Think of all the great thinkers (even the ones who were wrong or thought to be wrong)... They were all nonconformists in their times. Nonconformists are Visionaries (some are better at it than others). It is their ideas and their thoughts which spur society onward towards new ideals. Some do this on a large scale and make big changes to society, most of us only make small contributions... or we should. What is the use of being a brilliant pianist if one never plays? What is the use of having intelligence and a drive towards nonconformity if you don't make the best of it. Being a nonconformist, in the best sense of the word, implies more than just going against the norm, more than simply not conforming to the status quo... It means that you have the intelligence to see what others can't or won't... It means that you have the desire or need to do something about it... And it means that you have the ability to change things (maybe only in tiny ways or, for some, in huge ways)... I don't want to say that it carries a responsibility with it because that completely optional... and many people chose to keep their focus tighly within their own personal experiences... I will argue, though, that with most artists (I use this term to include artists in the traditional meaning as well as any one who creates) there is a decided bent towards trying to promote a change within society, else why exhibit? Why publish? Why broadcast? Why post? Why Speak out? Why try to get your viewpoint across to others? Why, if not to try to influence? So it's not that we see through society's charade... we rip it down... tear it away... force new sight (or insight)... or we try to...
Marie
"The future is not a gift - it is an achievement." -Harry Lauder
"My interest is in the future because I am going to spend the rest of my life there." -Charles F. Kettering
I hearby nominate this thread (Intelligence and non conformism) as one of the longest and most wandering threads I've ever witnessed. Or were there longer ones?
ps. Sorry haven't been posting much, college is taking way too much of my time. And for those on ICQ, many apologies if it seems like I'm ignoring you, I was probably just not available. Ah, such is college life. Someone please tell me that working life is at least worth waiting for.
Jane: This is just like high school. Daria: You know, I get the feeling we'll be saying that all our lives.
St. Patrick's Day: It only seems like high school. Actually, it's much worse. Jane: *That's* what we'll be saying all our lives.
Nicole Lee Also known as LadyKender on IRC and ICQ. The Darianite Revolution at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/daria.htm Kendermore at http://members.xoom.com/nlsy/
"But I don't want to be in any 'inner circle cabal thing.'" -Hallucinating Elvis Lady to SpaceRanger on atd-
Daria Code: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313 BB- FCD +DT q fN
Well "Lawndale Files hits the UK" is currently up to 174 messages compared to 143 on this thread, and is probably more rambling in that I don't believe it's about Lawndale Files hitting the UK any more.