...when there are so many other programs out there that are MUCH better, like Ricki Lake or something. I mean, Daria's just some loser girl who never got any in high school.
Seriously, why do you watch Daria? What kind of person are you that makes you like it? What attracts you to this show? I'm curious about its audience since I can find no other fans to speak to. Be as specific as you can. Email me, please.
Visit my web page at http://animation.acmecity.com/model/347/main.html
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:51:36 GMT, [email] wrote:
No thanks, troll-boy. When you start off such a request by insulting the show that is the focal point of the very people you allegedly are interested in hearing from, you immediately lose any credibility you may have had.
Martin (send all e-mail to "[email]") +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/It always amazes when people like the person up above come to a newsgroup like this who doesn't like or even watch the show and just insults it. Why bother? Just go to your Ricki Lake newsgoup and leave us be.
*~*~*~*~* Liz *~*~*~*~*~*~* See my auctions here - http://auctions.yahoo.com/user/Napua_Poire
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:26:59 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Martin J. Pollard), and it said:
Umm... I think he was joking... and doing market research. ;)
Tarvok wrote in message news:[email]...
Don't people get paid for participating in market research?
Where's my $20 coupon?
I watch Daria because it's more cerebral than Ricki Lake. But, of course, Barney is more cerebral than Ricki Lake. I would never consider wasting so much as a moment of my life watching Ricki Lake as long as the "OFF" switch on my TV was still working. I will admit to watching it once, to at least see what it was about--I won't make that mistake again.
OTOH, I remember when I first saw Daria, in a Dariathon of second-season episodes. I remember after watching only two episodes that I realized that I was looking at something very special and that I wanted to see more. Anyone who imagines that it's merely another show about a high school girl is never going to understand the breadth of Daria's appeal. I identify with Daria. Her experiences mirror my own in so many ways, unlike most other TV shows, particularly the so-called "high school" shows. It's been years since I graduated from high school but I still feel a rapport with Daria. This is NOT a high school show. It's much more.
[email] wrote in message ...
Ricki Lake? You're kidding, right?
As for Daria not getting any, she's only a Sophomore, you've gotta give her time.
We watch Daria simply for the fact that she is, without a doubt, us. Intelligent, sharp-witted, and unappreciated (Well, most of us, anyway. I can't say the same about some people......). We're kept down because we're smarter than the popular people, we're taunted, teased, because we look different. We're misunderstood because we say things they think are different. Besides, she's got her own show, and her more popular sister doesn't.
My god, Ricki Lake? Do you actually LIKE those shows about teen makeovers? Tell me something, kid, do you happen to sit on the couch and watch Oprah too? Have you no shame?
The Outsider said:
A junior now, but still, she has high moral standards and she isn't in love with anyone (anyone who is expressing love for her in return, that is, since we all know about T***t), so it's not surprising that she isn't "getting any".
Very well put.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On 10 Aug 1999 12:02:42 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
She's a damn tease! Can't you see it?
Actually, you gave me a flashback to high school, in which my favorite nickname was "The Non-Practicing Heterosexual" for my somewhat mythic indifference to the opposite sex, at least partially due to my morals.
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
In article , "The Outsider" wrote:
Yes, I am.
give her time.
I'd rather not. It's a TV cartoon show. I'm not *expecting* her to "get any". I don't view Daria as a real (or even quasi-real) person with a history and full life outside of the show, just as a symbol of coolness.
anyway. I can't say the same about some people......). We're kept down because we're smarter than the popular people, we're taunted, teased, because we look different. We're misunderstood because we say things
I'm really glad you enjoy the show for those reasons. I hope you haven't been too screwed with during your life as you described..
makeovers?
Oprah
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ricki Lake is the worst show on TV. All this "you dumped me" and "let's have a menage" and crap. It's sickening. Makeover shows aren't *that* bad. They're cute, although you won't find them on Ricki Lake but maybe once a season. Trust me, it's all trashy relationship stuff.
Oprah, on the other hand, is actually a good show. She does a lot of self help shows, women and minority empowerment stuff, and she brings attention to medical disorders and social misunderstandings. Any show that tries to help people is a good show, as there are almost none of those to begin with. Anyone who considers themselves in Daria's social situation should at least give Oprah a chance.
At any rate, I don't "sit on a couch" and watch TV except for the Daria tapes I recorded a long time ago. I do watch NBC Ricki Lake and Oprah because I *work* at NBC, and those are the shows that are usually on during my shift. All of my leisure time is definitely NOT television, but drawing. Check out my web page.
Alright, I wasn't going to spill the beans, but no one except this Jordan fellow seems to realize that I was being sarcastic and that I am the one who wrote the original post (at least I think he knows... do you?). There was, I believe, one person who actually went to my web page and found out that I am, in reality, a big Daria fan and animation fan in general
Cb
In article ,
I figured it out after curiosity got the better of me and I checked out the web page real quick (looks cool) and reread the original message. Subtlety is lost on the internet, anyway ;)
(That and we're overly troll/flame defensive around here)
In article ,
I realize that, but it's extremely interesting to see how many people can actually pick things up like that. I guess not that many.
At any rate, I thought the Daria fandom would be sharp enough to notice and not act like the rest of the internet. But I guess that the rest of the internet is so icky that natural defenses kick in no matter who you are and where you are on it.
This isn't very similar to what I did, but it was one time a very very long time ago ('93 or '94) on alt.fan.animaniacs... There's a guy named Will Bell who I believe may have set up the original newsgroup and is a famous and respected animation fan in not only that newsgroup but most of the other animation groups at the time. He posted this message like "Animaniacs sucks, why dont you all watch a better show like Bonkers or something?" and the response he got was phenomenal. Hundreds of people attacked and flamed him, and there were something like 3 people who said "Wait, stop! It's Will! He's just joking!", but to no avail. People were so angry that they just kept on attacking him.. some people posted really long explanations as to why Animaniacs is an awesome show, "so there!", etc.. It was very interesting to read.
chris I'm sorry I went to art school and got that bad influence http://animation.acmecity.com/model/347/main.html
Buster Logan wrote:
If you weren't around here when Season 3 first aired in the US, then you missed some rather nasty posts-- let's just say that there were rather strong personality conflicts, mixed with a certain lack of civility. It made the group a wee bit gunshy for a very good reason, hence the rather pronounced use of emoticons to show Peaceful Intent-- yeah, it does hurt the writing some, but it serves to keep the flames to a minimum.
rich.
Max: We're criminales!
Would this be the "Daria!" wars?
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
Forget the "Daria!" wars... I'm still traumatized by the "Pierce Me" war.
--J.
"Jessica L." wrote:
Ooo-- I just had a baaad flashback from that. *Shudder*
out of character, rich.
Tiffany: "Oh, no. Wind, hair."
Shez wrote:
Actually, I was thinking of a certain Poster (who shall remain nameless) who engaged in a flamewar with Alli, among others.
rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:50:00 GMT, Buster Logan wrote:
Not me either, I just deleted the message as another pathetic spam attempt. Oops :p
<snip story>
LOL! And I could see it happening...
Damon Orca on #Stars!
In article ,
I
The instinct is strong but you've got to admit, despite our collective thickheaded-ness, most of us were at least civil ;)
Buster Logan said:
I think that from a dramatic standpoint, the writers have to treat her as "real" except when they are doing deliberately self-referential humor. And from the viewpoint of understanding her as a character, we have to treat her as "real" too. Animation is a medium, and Daria feels more "real" to me (in terms of believability) than most characters on live action sitcoms. Remember, the actors and the characters are two different sets of people.
Anyway, I would rather hope that the (imaginary) person named Daria eventually gets to experience requited love, and the joys of sexual pleasure. Why would I wish her to remain lonely and unfulfilled throughout her (imaginary) life?
Hee hee hee :)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article , [email] wrote:
you are just asking for a flamewar...
[email] wrote:
*Sigh*. After that last school shooting many of the NG's I read had to put up with a lot of this sort of stupidity, since were were all (in the eyes of the media, and therefore the trolls) instantly Nazi-loving Satan-worshipping gun-toting screwballs.
Actually, some of the stuff in recent Daria episodes reminded me of that. When those two agents arrived at Lawndale and wanted students to be on the lookout for people who were different, along with Ms. Li's recent comments about bomb-sniffing dogs made me wonder precisely when these episodes were written. (I also wondered what O'Neil was getting at when he showed up at school in that all black getup....) But maybe I'm just looking too deeply.
"I love humans - always seeing patterns... that aren't there." - Dr. Who
Len
Yes. And of course I am a Michigan resident German student who doesn't go to church and build porches for people, so I'm obviously all of those things.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
I can top it-- I'm half-German and half Southern... I'm apparently the only person that it's free to call open season on. *Shrug*
hiding in my cave till 1/2/00, rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
On the mountaintop, [email] (Dagny Scott) spake thusly:
And I'm a Wisconsin resident high school student programmer who wears a trenchcoat and combat boots and hangs around with geeks. I must be just about ready to blow, killing all around me. Which may or may not be a bad thing.
-Mindy "Would you like to be the horn on the Tricycle of Love?" "Honk."
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Dagny Scott said:
You've even been to Newark ;-)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:14:59 GMT, [email] wrote:
There are no flamewars on atd! There are no flamewars on atd! There are no flamewars on atd! MSB
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:11:48 GMT, [email] (MSB) wrote:
Damn you, your son of he who smells of elderberries, of COURSE there are flame wars!
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
On 9 Aug 1999 22:05:13 GMT, [email] (Kyle) wrote:
My son? I don't have a son :-) MSB (who doesn't start flame-wars with someone who misspells his flames)
Cberdoz said:
*Daria* is one of the few shows on television to portray the world as seen from the viewpoint of a PLAUSIBLE genuinely admirable, intelligent, misfit.
Daria is a plausible character. I've known girls like her (never enough, and unfortunately not when I was around that age). She's not a Mad Scientist (Dexter) or a Super-Nerd (Urkel). She's the sort of person who could really exist.
She's genuinely admirable. She has high moral standards, exteme integrity, and (despite her misanthropy) true compassion. This is shown WITHOUT detracting from her plausiblity (she's not a plaster saint), which is a mark of good writing.
She's truly intelligent: high genius to supergenius level. Her intelligence is portrayed in a manner that shows that the writers either ARE highly intelligent or know people who are. It's not just getting good grades: it extends to many facets of her life (her reading, her writing, her wry sense of humor).
Finally, she's REALLY a misfit, not just a "Mk. 1 Standard Heroine" with the brains cranked up a bit. She's sarcastic, a semi-loner (Jane's the only person whose company she really seeks out), she disagrees vehemently with a lot of cultural attitudes (both adult and teen), and she really dislikes some people. (Unlike, say, the smart girl on "Full House", who is just a Standard Cute Babe with some brains added).
While I'm on the topic of looks, I'm also glad that they resisted the temptation to make Daria and her friends conventionally beautiful. Daria IS beautiful, but in a subtle way, and not in the way that is currently fashionable (she's not a "waif"). [Quinn, incidentally, fails to meet her own standards of "cuteness" mostly because her face has too much character, which is apparent when you see the two sisters together]. Jane isn't beautiful by any normal standards. Her brother Trent really isn't handsome either ... his attractiveness is more based on his wry good nature than his raw good looks (envision him with a nasty or arrogant expression and you'll see what I mean instantly).
The only really "beautiful" characters on the show are Jodie, Brittany, and Tiffany. Jodie is basically admirable (though a conformist: her role in the show is both to show that conformity doesn't bring happiness and that its practicioners are not all bad sorts); Brittany's a nice airhead, and Tiffany's a nasty airhead.
Incidentally, in a "normal" high school show, Mack, Jodie, Kevin, and Brittany would be the main characters, and Daria would fill the role of "that weird but smart kid we sometimes seek advice from". Jane wouldn't be there, because weird secondary characters don't get friends of their own, they just hover adoringly around the main characters.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On 09 Aug 1999 11:57:00 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
WHAT?!?! <gasping for breath, reaching for shotgun> Jane looks awesome! MSB
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:11:03 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (MSB), and it said:
He said _normal_ standards. ;) By _my_ standards (and yours, it seems), Jane is downright gorgeous, perhaps more so than Daria. She's not _standard_ beautiful, but she has just that amount of deviation in appearance that would draw my own eyes, not to mention an attitude that puts _very_ interesting expressions on her face.
FWIW, I think that both Daria and Jane are beautiful girls, by my standards. But my standards are based more on personality anyway ...they are both unique and wonderful charactrers.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article ,
So you caught that, too, huh? Daria and Jane's iconic-ism is a lot simpler than, say Jake or Quinn's, because it is easier to see oneself in their face. It's easier to emphathize with them. As a matter of fact, it's very difficult to ascribe physical beauty traits to Daria and Jane because of this. If they were more detailed, you might pass judgement on them because of their "looks".
Ach, you are a smart guy! This is exactly what I was trying to figure out, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. That's definitely true. I still feel for Jodie, because she's "forced" to overachieve and conform because of her minority status (mentioned in "Gifted"). Jodie is the one who succeeds by going with the flow, playing the unfair game which Daria sees as what's wrong with the world.
Did you ever think what would happen after one of the "cool teen shows" when the cute girl give a helping hand to the geek/brain? "Why don't you join us? she says to him/her at the pizza place. Cut, the end. So after that, do they stay friends with the brain? NO! In all likelyhood, this character was still ostracized. Daria is a show where they show the truth of what happens after that episode of "Saved by the Bell" is over.
However, some of the things Daria does seems out of place to me. Daria really is a 'bugs bunny' figure. She says and does things we would want to, but usually end up not doing. She defaced her own art, she dressed up like Quinn. If Daria actually existed, I'm not sure if she would be so extreme. She seems to be more an observer than a doer, and sometimes she does things that I don't think she would. I seriously doubt she would have gone to Britanny's party, even if it did mean upsetting Quinn ("the Invitation")
I think the most realistic eps are "Road Worrier" (brilliant - best episode of anything on TV), "Gifted", Write Where it Hurts, "Ill... How many people out there actually had "road worrier" actually happen to them in one form or another?
Buster Logan said:
Very good point. More true I think of Daria, who is drawn in a slightly simplistic fashion (and with an oddly childlike face, which you'll notice hasn't changed much since she WAS a toddler) than Jane, who has a very strange and quirkly face, similar to that of her brother Trent. I think that in all three cases their attractiveness derives mainly from their personalities.
For or against, though? Daria and Quinn actually look a lot alike, a point made obvious in "Monster" when Daria makes herself into Quinn's virtual twin. Peering through the stylistic conventions, there's no reason to assume that Daria's perceived unattractiveness (on the part of many people around her) is due to anything but her deliberately asexual personal style.
Note that in the Lawndaleverse itself, Daria's lack of attractiveness is perceived (by others) as being for stylistic reasons. She definitely has charisma ... and this is not entirely unrelated to good looks.
I perceive Daria as being beautiful, and Jane and Trent as being rather good-looking in a peculiar sort of way. But none of them are attractive by current fashions, either in terms of clothing or their more basic appearance.
And her maniacal mother, who is fanatically determined that HER daughter will be the absolute BEST.
Yes, and she rather admires Daria's nonconformity. She could learn a lot (and seems to be) from Daria's intellectual independence; while Daria could learn a lot (and perhaps has) from Jodie's ability to get along with people. Jodie definitely likes Daria.
Well put. Though in another sense Daria's an even better show, because the characters change both internally and in their relationships to one another over time. Though Daria is not outgoing, she has definitely made friends at Lawndale (aside from Jane); people have learned to like her and have realized that they can only relate to her on her own terms.
Daria's very courageous. This is easy not to realize, because our culture has developed exaggeratedly physical notions of courage, and Daria doesn't parachute into enemy territory to rescue POW's or battle terrorists in skyscrapers or anything like that. What she has is a strong moral sense, a lot of integrity, and the willingness to act upon it when she feels action is demanded, regardless of the social consequences.
Well, it is a comedic drama, and both comedy and drama are based upon exaggeration.
The "defacing one's own art" theme comes from Ayn Rand (*The Fountainhead*), who may have gotten the idea from earlier works I haven't read. The mimickry theme is as old as human drama of any form (literally, because it probably originated in shamanistic dances around campfires).
Daria acts when she feels she must or should. Daria's definition of this necessity is often different from that which most people would decide upon.
Remember, however, that a party is an excellent chance to observe people.
I agree. And yes, I have, sort of.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article ,
[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
It depends on who is watching. My reason for that statement is that since Daria (and Jane to a lesser extent) is drawn so simply that you can't pass an instant judgement on her because of how she "looks" to you. We all make instant judgements on people as soon as we see them - a "book by its cover" so to speak. Well, with cartoons, and specifically Daria, all you have to go on is an big oval head, a volume of brown shape for hair, glasses, a line for a nose, and a mouth. Granted, everyone is drawn simply but Daria is more so iconic. Like you said, Quinn is a little bit more defined, and I would say the same thing about most of the other characters. The only stereotypical defining element about Daria's design is her glasses.
Already, even people in this newsgroup have a stereotype, burned into us by society, that people who might look like Daria are socially unattractive (glasses, dress, etc). However, I believe Daria is drawn a bit simpler than the rest of them so that her charisma stands out moreso and to reduce her stereotypical "unattractiveness". She is simply a *symbol* of stereoptypical, socially unattractiveness. However, she's designed simply enough that that idea would not be set in stone with every viewer. It also makes her into a blank slate, a Charlie Brown everyman so to speak, for people to put themselves into her place. She doesn't really look like anyone you know, not really *specifically* anyway, so free interpretation as to who she might really be in real life is expanded greatly. Read "understanding comics" by scott mccloud for a better explanation than mine. The other, prettier characters have fuller lips or bigger boobs (note Daria and Jane have no obvious breasts) or more defined cheekbones, etc. These simple additions make it easier to stereotype a personality onto the other characters, but the simpler design of the main characters makes it easier to put yourself or someone you know into their shoes. It's a very subtle and effective cartooning trick.
That's definitely the reason this show is so original. It really is strange to see a TV show with a non outgoing and relatively inactive person as the lead character. Strange how these cartoon shows give us more real life and personality than live tv. Although, getting back to what I said earlier, the normal joe or mary can watch Baywatch and say "oh that guy/gal is cute/ugly" whereas if they watch Daria, then it would be more of an individual perception of the character design. Before he really got into the show, my roommate commented that he really couldn't tell who the attractive characters on Daria were supposed to be, which forced him to actually watch the show for its content rather than anything else. It's a wonder why people get hooked on Daria and other slice of life cartoons.
And I think the words "social consequences" are key here. I always thought that people like Daria (including myself and everyone that I know like us) would be stopped at doing certain things because of social consequences. Maybe not for feeling like a misfit (because she already knows she is one), but for just trying to keep life less harsh than it already is. Or maybe she figures she has nothing to lose. Is Daria's morality so strong even though she has something of an apathy towards life and other people? I guess everyone can be two things at once.. Although I guess it might just be the way the writers feel, and if the writers change every episode or whatnot. But continuity always drags on with any type of fan of any show.
I guess that's why I felt the show was sorta unreal sometimes.
people.
It's also an opportunity to avoid people and trouble. That's why I thought it was kinda weird. Although the story isn't all that far- fetched for her, remember that when she got there she obviously didn't have a good time (and she knew she wasn't going to). Though it's a great opportunity for the writers to comment on social and jock cliques. It's just a thought. I think the writers go to somewhat far lengths to make a point. This is perfectly fine, but it kinda bugs me when I see characters doing what I perceive as out of character. I figured Daria the kind of person to avoid a situation like that rather than view it as an opportunity to observe. She observes more than enough at school than she would care to handle.
Buster Logan wrote: <snipping to save bandwidth...>
Well, the problem with that is that then we wouldn't have anything to watch now, would we?
The big problem with the slippery slope of "in character/out of character" is that unless you're the show's creative director, you'll never know the characters as well as s/he does. (And that goes with any show.) That person usually played a hand in creating those characters, and that person more than any other has to know all of the gory details about the characters, or else We Won't Watch. The good thing about "Daria" is that Glenn and Susie have a very strong feel for all of the characters-- that doesn't mean that every ep is perfect, but as I've said before-- it's their baby, and they're free to raise it as they wish-- I think they're more concerned about keeping it fresh and real than we are-- it IS what they get paid for, n'est-ce pas?
rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
Buster Logan said:
*Daria* is MUCH better written than most live action TV shows. And it's one of the FEW to have as its protagonist a realistically characterized misfit. (And I do think that Daria's personality type, while rare, is existent in reality. I've known one or two ...)
And it says something about the shallowness of most other TV shows that they always make the protagonist and his / her love interest the most physically attractive characters in the show. Bad writing, and it has a bad effect on our society.
I've done some fairly extreme things for my beliefs. So have other people on this newsgroup (and you know who you are!)
She's afraid that if she compromises she'll lose EVERYTHING ... namely, her SELF.
You don't understand. Daria's not really apathetic ... she cares intensely. Her "apathy" is a facade to keep other people from realizing how MUCH she cares ... and to keep herself from going insane.
Did she really have such a bad time? I think the only really bad part of it for her was discovering that Jane had weaknesses too.
Daria is more curious, and cares more, than she admits.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Not me, my experience would be more similar to "Gifted". I was invited to go to a private boarding school based on the spurious reason that I have an IQ of 153. Needless to say, I reacted pretty much the way Daria did. "Why pay to go to a school to learn useless information when I can go to public school for free?"
Jess "Morgendorfer" [email]
Daria: With a hey nonny nonny, tra la, tra la.
Daria code thingy A D+ T0 W1 Q+ FN^FR O+ Ow+OH+Os M+ C++ MV-- C5X F:308, 105, 210 BB+++ FCD -DT+ q+ fT
On 10 Aug 1999 06:17:18 GMT, [email] (JMStargazr) wrote:
Oohh, ooh, there's a thread we haven't done. Everyone post their IQ's! But I sure as heck ain't going first (or 2nd, in this case). Whether embarrasment or not wanting to seem condescending, you'll have to figure out for yourself.
I went to two private schools, 1 year each, both on basis of religion rather than my money or intelligence.
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
On the mountaintop, [email] (Kyle) spake thusly:
What about those of us poor souls who never took the test and/or were not informed of the results? Should we just sit idly by, comparing SAT and ACT scores? WHAT ABOUT OUR NEEDS?!
-Mindy Who got a 1250 on her SAT 'cause she's so S-M-R-T
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Mindy of Hell Enterprises writes:
The world is divided into those who know their IQ and those who don't, also those who believe in IQs and those who don't.
We had some kind of intelligence test at junior school (ie. age 11) to determine our initial secondary school ability streaming, but the results were not released.
I don't think IQ tests are actually very useful once you get much over a 100 though, as people have many varied skills and even if you could eliminate the cultural bias that has so infamously dogged IQ tests, you still couldn't sum up a person's intelligence with a single number.
Channel 4 teletext used to have a sample IQ question each day along with the IQ it indicated if you solved it within the time limit. I used to find that sometimes I could solve an IQ 160 question in about a quarter of the time allowed, yet on other occasions I would fail to figure out an IQ 135 one at all. It all depended on the type of question it was.
I think maybe I have a specialist type of intelligence that's only useful for doing very intelligent things and useless for the sorts of activities done by lesser mortals...
-Shez.
and those who don't give a rat's ass. Did you ever wonder where that expression comes from?
"Bob Ohler" wrote:
No, but I use it a lot, too. Not that anyone gives a rat's ass. ;-)
rich.
Brittany: Shut up, naked boy!
In article , [email] wrote:
It probably started with someone saying, "I wouldn't even give you a rat's ass for that piece of junk."
Thankful that I can use phrases like "rat's ass" and "pidgeon shit"
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:46:46 +0100, Shez wrote:
<snip top-notch insight from Shez>
One thing I really don't want to know about myself is my IQ, that and my weight. I'm so grateful that there isn't a standardized test for laziness. I could be labeled fat, dumb, and lazy all in the same day. Besides, I don't think I could live with myself if I found out that I'm only half as smart as someone who really, really liked "The New Kid"<g>
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:14:38 GMT, [email] (happydude) wrote:
I think the secret is not to believe in it. I don't give a darn about what some scientist who created the test thinks my IQ means, although I thought it was fun to find out.
And now that you mention it, if IQ is so innacurate, maybe I'm not really 5'6", 105 lbs.!
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
On Tue, 10 Aug 99 15:57:28 GMT, [email] (Mindy) wrote:
We can guess! I estimate yours at somwhere lower than your SAY score and higher than your weight!
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
I did 1260..as a Froshie..
On Tue, 10 Aug 99 15:57:28 GMT, [email] (Mindy) wrote:
<pretentious gloating>
And I got a 1260 for my SATs even though I *never* studied, and I come from Malaysia where Malay is the official language (and is thus the medium of education), and I learned whatever English I have purely from reading novels, watching TV and yakking with fellow English speakers.
So hah! :)
</pretentious gloating>
Okay okay, so I was raised with English as my primary language, and I didn't have to ever struggle with it. Still, we never studied literature, only semantics like grammar and punctuation. Goes to show ya what reading can do to expand your vocabulary :)
I didn't really need to take the SATs either, I just took it to see where my position was in relation to the rest of the US population (Having to continue my education in the US, I wanted to know where I stood). Imagine my surprise when I discovered that I was better than 83% of the population. Not a large amount of course, but rather surprising all the same.
Maybe it's just me, but I've always had a little trouble with IQ questions. I wonder how they grade them, and if there are any strict rules as to how to grade someone.
To add to the discussion, what does anyone here think of the not-so-recent craze over EQ type questions? Just new age mumbo jumbo? Or are they really much more relevant and useful in today's day and age?
"They've just put us in a position of responsibility." "The day has suddenly turned sinister."
On Tue, 10 Aug 99 15:57:28 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Mindy), and it said:
Never took an IQ test, not that I can remember, at least, If I did, I think it was around 140 or so, maybe 145. Dunno.
But I _did_ get a 1330 on my SAT, so BWAHAHA!
In article ,
thusly:
have
not
and ACT
So, I got a 1970 on the GRE. Take that ;)
On the mountaintop, [email] (Tarvok) spake thusly:
But did you take it in eighth grade like I did, without a full grasp of math concepts? :-P
-Mindy Who is sure that 2+2=5, and not much else.
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Mindy wrote in message ...
to go
IQ of
to
for
<British geezer question> Er, what are SAT and ACT scores? </clueless>
I don't know my IQ, but I do know that it's easy to improve your IQ just by practising IQ tests as they only test certain skills. It also depends on the choice of types of questions, I was once trying out one of those how smart are you type of books that is full of tests and there was a wide variation in my results depending on how many of the questions were related to word skills.
Bettster
Bettster wrote:
About not being knowledgable about that...don't worry, it took me a while to learn about "A levels" and "O levels" and now I'm having to relearn the whole British educational system thingie. You guys have a confusing educational system IM Ugly American O.
Diane
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:57:39 GMT, Diane Aguilar wrote:
Speaking from someone who went through *both* systems of education, I have to say that the British system is *way* easier to understand for me. There's no GPA to hassle with, no SATs to calculate, and you don't have to pick and choose your subjects almost every semester. I'd rather stick out my choices for a whole year or two really. Of course, if you changed your mind mid-way through, you're in some pretty deep shit.
Back where I used to go to school, all you really had to work hard on was the final examination. Those monthly tests and such were just to gauge your performance level and would be put on the report card, but it wouldn't be as all-dictating as the final examination. If you scored *really* BIG during the finals, you're it. Graduated. Out of there. Who cares about those monthly tests. Which was *really* bad for most of us who did some serious last-minute cramming before our finals. Imagine trying to cram a whole year's worth of lessons within a month. I personally did rather mediocre on monthly tests, and sky-rocketed on finals because of INTENSE cramming. Ask anyone from the British education system and someone will tell you that they've crammed one time or other.
And then there are O-levels where you pick your 'stream' of choice - Arts or Science. At which point you're stuck with 9 subjects for 2 whole years. Yes folks, NINE subjects. If you decided to cram for the O-levels, your head could explode. And clever ol me, I decided to take 10 subjects. Malay, English, Math, History, and Moral Education made up the core subjects, while Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Additional Mathematics, and Principles of Accounting made up my electives. Needless to say, my head exploded.
I won't go through the whole grading process (agregates etc) as I myself am not too sure about it now. But after taking the O-levels, I just would not go through the A-levels (Thank God for understanding parents). I just took some time off to explore my options, took the SATs and the TOEFL, and off I went to the US. And that, my friends, is history.
Kudos to those who've stuck it out through the British education system though, it takes quite a bit of hard work and consistency to be able to pull it off. I'm not too sure about the universities in the UK (from what I heard, it's the same principle - knock it out in the final examination, and you're out of there), but one of the advantages/disadvantages I heard is that UK universities don't require you to take those GE courses (General Requirement stuff) and head you straight on in to your field of choice. I personally adore GE classes, so I don't really mind. But I do know of some folks who don't.
Well, enough jabbering from me today. Adios :)
"Name that tune." "Jane's theme?" "Damn you, woman."
Nicole Lee writes:
So that's why I've been walking around in a haze since age 16....
Maths, surely? I thought only Americans did Math in the singular.
I'm not sure what GE courses entail, but yes, degrees in UK universities are specialist subjects and if you enroll to do, say, Computer Science, then that's what you'll do from day one. Of course within that there may be stuff from other disciplines that are needed by your field, eg. most science degrees include some Maths. I enrolled to do computing and our first year consisted of programming, logic, pure maths, and computer architecture. Some universities however have a system where you take three subjects in the first year, and then specialise in one of them. And I think Cambridge or Oxford may have a system where you continue to do three subjects and get a triple degree or something. Oxford and Cambridge are weird universities though and I don't know much about how they work.
-Shez.
What's confusing about it and why are you having to relearn it?
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
Ummm...so you guys still have A levels and O levels? I thought the whole educational system over there had been retooled either this decade or last. I know I thought it was sometime recently. Oh well, if it hasn't changed then it's not confusing...'cos I'd know about it!
Diane
Diane Aguilar of Diane Aguilar Stylistics writes:
O levels (aka GCEs) were combined with CSEs sometime in the distant past (c.1980) and rebadged "GCSEs". There was a minor difference in that they changed to an A-E grading system instead of numeric, with A-C being equal to an old O-level pass (formerly grade 1-5), and D-E being the lower CSE grades.
AFAIK A-levels have not changed in the last N decades, where N is a number stretching further back than my knowledge of educational history.
What has changed a lot in recent years is the way things are taught in schools. There's more stress on continuous assessment (coursework) rather than the final exam, and a National Curriculum was brought in to ensure all schools teach much the same things. Whether or not this is a good thing depends on your point of view, but it does allow the BBC to produce some good educational TV series (eg. GCSE Bitesize) which would not have been possible when each region set its own syllabus.
All this only applies to England & Wales BTW, Scotland has a different school system which ends at 17 with students going on to take 4 year degree courses instead of the usual 3 years that English students would do.
-Shez.
On the mountaintop, "Bettster" spake thusly:
Tests you're forced to take in high school that colleges use in part to determine how smart you are. They have fiddly little material on them like grammar and what looked to me like advanced calculus. Of course, since the highest math I've had is Algebra 1....
-Mindy Who doesn't know jack about British education, so don't feel bad
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Mindy wrote:
...to expand on that, a perfect SAT score is 1600, with the average being around 800 or 900 (I think). SATs are in two main parts, Verbal and Mathematics, with 800 points possible for each. The two are added together for the composite score everyone's been quoting. The perfect ACT score is 36, and I think the average is... what, 20-ish? That I have no clue about, despite the fact that I only used my ACT scores for college stuff. ACTs have Mathematics, Reading, Grammar, and Science sections, each graded on a scale of 1 to 36. And then all those four are averaged for the main ACT score.
HTH,
--J.
Jessica L. of ASOP (Association of Strange
So what happens with the other subjects you take? Don't they count towards your results? Or is the SAT/ACT score additional to some other qualification or certificate you get out of high school?
In the UK, each subject that you took to age 16 results in a qualification (GCSE) (assuming you pass the exam and coursework!), similarly each advanced subject you take to age 18 results in an A-level (Advanced Level) qualification. (GCSE's used to be called O levels - Ordinary Level .. now it's a General Certificate of Secondary Education).
Each GCSE and A-level is a free-standing qualification which is recognised by employers and colleges, who will typically ask for ones in subjects appropriate to their field, eg. to do a Chemistry degree you'd probably need Chemistry, Maths and Physics A-levels, or to work for a travel company you might need GCSE's in Geography and a foreign language, etc., etc.
Although there isn't any official aggregate result such as with your SATs, it's common to produce an overall score by assuming 5 points for each grade A, 4 for each B, etc., and colleges may require you to have so many A-level points rather than specific grades in each subject. However for many degree courses they will demand some minimum grade in key subjects, eg. I imagine you'd be unlikely to get accepted to do a Geography degree if you'd only got an 'E' in your Geography A- level, no matter how many A-level points you got overall.
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
<snip British school system stuff>
Oh, yes, for sure. The SAT/ACT score is more like a supplement to your high school grades. Different universities/colleges will weigh those test scores differently. While doing admissions, one school might value a high SAT score the most, while another might value your high school grades. Other schools might even value admissions essays or teacher recommendations more highly. And actually, some colleges highly suggest the SAT II's, which are specific subject tests in almost any area you can imagine (chemistry, english, writing, American history, and so on).
--J.
<snip explaination for recent rain of cookies over Timbuktu>
Greg Pallis of [posted via Eidosnet] writes:
No it's a Barbara from a fortean discussion group on the net, IIRC.
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:32:20 -0700, "Jessica L." wrote:
Is there any easy way (e.g. web page) to take one of these tests (just for fun of course). I'd like to find out how I'd score, especially in the verbal part. MSB
Matthias Benkmann wrote:
No, it's a big several hour (three or four?) deal. You have to sign up for special dates and times, and they charge you a reasonable chunk of change to take 'em, too. Even then it takes about a month+ to get your scores.
--J.
On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:45:24 -0700, "Jessica L." wrote:
But there have to be books that have the questions from previous tests and the answer key in them. I don't need any official testing environment and certificate. MSB
In article ,
being around
Mathematics, with
composite score
the average
I only used
Grammar, and
those four are
There is a practice version at http://tester.review.com/ that you could try. You just have to register at the site, but it's free. And they also have several other practice tests there, too, like the GRE (the SAT equivalent for grad school) and TOEFL (test of english as a foreign language, that's usually a supplement to the verbal scores on the regular tests for non-native english speakers). And several other tests that I didn't recognize, too.
Ann
yeah, see, if I have to take some sort of IQ test that's all visual I'm gonna wind up a total RETARD I know. But if there's words- Woo hoo! I got in the top 99% on Reading on my ACT and the top 98% in English! But, y'know, I'd fail Geometry, art, etc.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
[email] (Mindy) wrote:
Remember, "Smart" isn't a 4-letter word. That would be "Smar."
rich.
"Unethical is only two letters away from ethical..." -- Paul Michael Mercurio
On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:
I guess I'll never measure up to y'all's levels... *sniffle*
-Mindy Who really ought to be sleeping.
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Kyle wrote in message news:7opfgf$c6d$[email]...
to go
IQ of
to go
for
Let's not. We all know we're smart. We wouldn't be hanging out in a Daria news group otherwise. I can kind of tell what kind of people I'm talking to just by reading the postings. (I hope you'll be tactful and keep your opinions about me to yourselves.) Without knowing the details of the the test the numbers are comparatively meaningless and it's quite possible for an individual to score over a wide range depending on which test they took and other factors. I notice they don't compare scores in Mensa. There it's considered uncouth. We can certainly share/compare our varied experiences as intelligent outcasts, especially, viz. Daria, without degenerating into "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours."
"Thank God for standardized tests. Otherwise you'd never know who your real friends are."
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:09:35 -0400, "R. K. Henry" wrote:
It has nothing to do with that. I thought IQ numbers would be another fun thread along the same lines as age and body mass index. Ignoring opinions about the validity of IQ, I'll say that my 158 is completely on line with his 153, and probably about average with this group. The two numbers are easily within the range of deviation of the tests.
But wouldn't it seem a tad rude to you if you posted yours as 153 and I hit mine as 158? I just didn't want to seem like I was playing one-upsmanship.
Exactly! No, wait...
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
On 10 Aug 1999 16:30:15 GMT, [email] (Kyle) wrote:
To give you something to think about. I once did an IQ test. The MAX SCORE you could reach was 150. Comparing IQ results from different tests is silly. MSB
"R. K. Henry" wrote: [comparing IQ test scores and whatnot]
Quite right, but I've got another question for the folks here.
Didn't anyone have any fun taking these kinds of tests in school? Or any test for that matter? I've always loved taking tests and playing with the test giver was always a joy. Take 'Fill in the bubble' tests. Didn't Jane give straight Cs as answers to one of them? I used to make designs filling in the bubbles. Or get the even numbered questions right and the odd ones wrong. Then, when retaking the test (In detention, yeah, I spent a lot of time there. My teachers knew I was smart but didn't suffer fools gladly) doing the opposite and telling the teacher to combine the two.
I remember taking an ESP test in one class. You know the one. Five types of cards, o, +, *, square, three wavy lines and you guess which one the giver was looking at. Got the highest score in the class. Put down + for all the answers.
My crowning glory was taking the practice SAT. Got as close to zero as anyone could. (IIRC you got points for getting your name right. Wish I had known that 'cause I would've blown that too.) Gave my HS guidance guy a case of the screaming willies. Of course the meeting with my parents and the principal wasn't much fun.
I guess the real question is, didn't anybody have any fun in high school? I had a blast and playing with the teachers was half of it. You could get away with a lot being a brainy jock. (yeah, I'll out myself, seeing as how I'm not the first football linebacker and track miler)
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:54:24 GMT, [email] wrote:
Some trivia that you might find interesting: Some of the maths tests from my university lectures contained multiple-choice questions. Points were always computed like this: correct answer ==> +1 point incorrect answer ==> -1 point no answer ==> no change of score
That way, making random crosses statistically gives you a 0 score.
My father possesses some ESP abilities. It only surfaces after a couple glasses of wine combined with drowsyness and it seems to work only with me (must be a father-son bonding or something), but he actually sees what I am seeing. It was so much fun when we were playing Mastermind that one day. He'd drive me crazy because he constantly got the combination right on the 1st or 2nd try. Then I concentrated really hard on visualizing a false combination and, guess what, my dad reproduced it exactly, colors and sequence. After that, he didn't want to play anymore which was quite understandable. After one bottle of wine, the only chance you have at winning a thinking game like Mastermind is ESP. Hmm, speaking of ESP. My brother and I also think the same things sometimes.
(If you're not interested in hearing high-school anecdotes, stop reading here)
You played with teachers? I don't think _my_ teachers would call what I did with them "playing". It was more like "fighting". Tests in German schools are neither standardized nor multiple-choice. That means there is always lots of discussion over the grades. I was always sitting there, like a vulture, listening as the students stated their claims. If a student had a point, I would sometimes jump in and take over the discussion for him. Okay, let's be honest, I sometimes did it even when I knew the student had no point and the teacher was right. Anyway, once started there were only 2 possibilities. The teacher pulled rank and just cut off the discussion (making me the winner by points) or he gave up. Usually the latter was the case. I've improved quite a lot of grades that way. Best thing I ever did was an English test about present tense/present perfect versus past tense/past perfect. I got a C on that test which is, of course, completely inacceptable. I went to the teacher and for each and every situation (even for those where I saw I did make an actual mistake) in the text I found a plausible explanation why I had used the tense I had used. I ended up getting an A. I didn't always get what I wanted, though. Once in a discussion about a maths test, I got a bit carried away, delivering this metaphor about potato soup. It was very fitting and my classmates liked it (pleasing the audience is the most important part of a discussion), but the teacher obviously didn't want to have his test compared with soup. I have to mention, that despite this problem I have with authorities, I was still among most teacher's favorite students. As a side note, I want to say, that there is very little a German teacher can do to keep students in check. There is no detention, he cannot send you to the principal's office, he is not allowed to touch you (well, there was this one incident when a teacher stomped on my foot on purpose and I punched him, but that's a different story). The only thing he can do is give you a Verweis (it's one of those get-5-and-you're-outta-school thingys, but count starts anew each school year) and he cannot do that without a good reason. During my school career I got only 2. One for "impolite behaviour" and one for "staying away from religious education unexcused". Anyone interested in hearing the complete stories about that? You know, I do like telling stories about my high-school days, and I like listening to those stories from others. Anyone got a good one to tell? MSB
p.s.: Sorry for that long message, but it was Space_Ranger's fault. He got me started on "fun in high-school". That pulled my nostalgia trigger.
In article , [email] (Matthias Benkmann) wrote:
[ker-snap]
You're not one of twins by any chance are you?
[shwopp]
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:27:35 GMT, Bear wrote:
Nope. We're fire and water. Look for another message I wrote about him. MSB
"R. K. Henry" wrote: [comparing IQ test scores and whatnot]
Quite right, but I've got another question for the folks here.
Didn't anyone have any fun taking these kinds of tests in school? Or any test for that matter? I've always loved taking tests and playing with the test giver was always a joy. Take 'Fill in the bubble' tests. Didn't Jane give straight Cs as answers to one of them? I used to make designs filling in the bubbles. Or get the even numbered questions right and the odd ones wrong. Then, when retaking the test (In detention, yeah, I spent a lot of time there. My teachers knew I was smart but didn't suffer fools gladly) doing the opposite and telling the teacher to combine the two.
I remember taking an ESP test in one class. You know the one. Five types of cards, o, +, *, square, three wavy lines and you guess which one the giver was looking at. Got the highest score in the class. Put down + for all the answers.
My crowning glory was taking the practice SAT. Got as close to zero as anyone could. (IIRC you got points for getting your name right. Wish I had known that 'cause I would've blown that too.) Gave my HS guidance guy a case of the screaming willies. Of course the meeting with my parents and the principal wasn't much fun.
I guess the real question is, didn't anybody have any fun in high school? I had a blast and playing with the teachers was half of it. You could get away with a lot being a brainy jock. (yeah, I'll out myself, seeing as how I'm not the first football linebacker and track miler)
[email] (Kyle) wrote:
At the risk of making this worse, there's actually a website that will allow you to test your IQ in under 15 minutes.
www.iqtest.com
Not that I've been there, mind you. ;-)
And no, I won't tell you what I got on the SAT, either. :P
I did get a 41 on my LSAT, but that was when it was a 48-point scale. (And if you must know, that's 91st percentile.) But I've always been good at takin' tests-- I barely studied for it and for the SAT as well-- the only prep courses I ever took were for the Bar Exam, but that was because the Bar has got to be the hardest damn test I've ever taken in my life. Man, my brain felt empty for a good month afterward. :P
rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
In article , [email] wrote:
I have. Let's just say that the test and the results are *interesting* ;)
OK, one word about standardized exams...
They're not accurate portrayals of one's intellecual capacities.
So I only got a 1250 as my highest SAT score. So, am I supposed to feel dumb? I don't feel dumb at all.
It's all a matter of what kind of environment you come from. I am almost certain that most of the nation's standardized exams penalize someone because of their ethnicity or racial background, and it's an unintended effect of having very few if any exam preparers actually *be* of such backgrounds. Besides, for most of my educational career I've had to go to schools with very small budgets, no extravagant public school budgeting there, just schools with very underpaid teachers/staff who did teach me well enough to be considered educated but not as well as perhaps almost all of the rest of you.
I didn't have the luxury of going to enrichment seminars, learning a multitude of free-thinking ideas, that sort of thing. Such classes as sociology and philosophy didn't fit in to the school's educational budget, nor did it fit into our school's former setup of seven classes a day. But I do consider my high school days to be filled with demanding courses that did really teach and challenge. So what if I didn't read Ayn Rand or Henry Miller or some other author that most of you seemed to have read in school? I did read quite a bit of classic literature. So what if I couldn't fit in physics into my schedule nor had much interest in it (seeing as though it was taught at the all boys' school across the street and I hated that all boys' school)? I did learn quite a bit about the physical world in my chemistry lessons. So what if my educational experiences seem to be nothing compared to what a lot of you guys have gone through? I'm making the most of what I learned.
And that, I think, ultimately should be the deciding factor in anything. Whether you make the most of what you learn. It shouldn't have to come down to results on standardized exams, because they're inherently flawed and unfair to a lot of people with great potential.
OK, me needs to go do a lot of chores...clothes need washing, dishes need washing, I need showering, supper needs readying...will check back here later.
Diane
Oh good lord! Look what's happening!
I was afraid of this. I warned everyone. But does anyone listen to me? NOOOO! We had a delightful little community of smarter-than-average people who enjoyed talking about a wonderful TV show. Now things are degenerating into a test-score pissing contest. Some people seem to be getting their feelings puckered--superlative people who have, I can assure you, absolutely no reason to feel inadequate in any way.
Ok, you want an IQ test? Here's a sample question that will accurately measure your abilities in the areas of interest:
Select the phrase which best completes the sentence.
MTV's TV show Daria is a. animated. b. about a high school girl who isn't getting any. c. one of the most insightful satires on television today.
answers: If you chose "a": You have a firm grasp of the obvious. You may enjoy the show but you probably don't really get it.
If you chose "b": You have a firm grasp of your genitals and wouldn't know good television if it bit you on the butt, though you might enjoy that.
If you chose "c": You have a depth of understanding indicative of a very highly developed intellect.
Of course we'll need to norm the results in order to compute a score, but you get the idea.
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:13:28 -0400, "R. K. Henry" wrote:
Where is the pissing contest? I thought we were all having fun with it.
Ummm. How can you spell "abacadaba" with just one question?
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
Kyle wrote in message news:7oqdg0$afh$[email]...
... [snip]
developed
Sample question.
This is the Daria universe. (The Dariaverse--Hmm. Sounds like something out of "Sailor Moon".) You get a perfect score by picking "C" for every question.
lol the idea of someone reading Rand in a high school class... maybe "Anthem" (a popular book due to its inherent shortness) but schools tend to be too PC for that, which is why my AP English class is full of books written within the past 10 years (which REALLY shouldn't be read in an English class. CLASSIC literature should be read in an English class) just because it's by a black woman.
For one thing, I seriously doubt that. For another, at least on the ACT you're not required to put your racial background.
Well I don't think anyone is going to say "I can't believe that person had the nerve to show up, he only got (whatever) on his ACT", y'know? We just feel like bragging :) and finding someone who appreciates it.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Dagny Scott wrote:
We didn't really get to reading very many modern books in my English class. Anyways, I brought up Ayn Rand because apparently most high schools *do* have his/her works as a reading selection, because there's a college scholarship that I knew of when I was a senior that entailed writing about some Ayn Rand novels. And I hadn't even heard of the author before then!
Well, it's unintended, really. And it has more to do with what's on the tests themselves. The content is biased.
I understand. I've just been a little touchy lately because of several different things happening in my life...and also...I don't know...*sigh*. I'm ICQing someone through her problems and because of that my brain's pretty much sapped out now. Plus I'm achy all over. Ick.
Diane
well the Rand Institute does have some essay contests etc. but all my English teacher have been so PC and WEIRD that just... no. Of course you have to be a liberal to be a teacher or else the MEA (teacher's union) will just drive you INSANE with its political donations and "ENGLER IS THE DEVIL" campaigns (Engler being our Republican governor who has done a good job of not kissing the MEA's ass if nothing else)
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
On 13 Aug 1999 01:03:46 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
I thought I'd drop in a remark on the German school system. One of the major differences is that teachers are civil servants that cannot be fired. The negative effect of this is the lack of motivation to do a good job. The positive effect is that they are independent. A German teacher can choose any book he wants for reading in class. I also want to mention that there is a general lack of correctness (political and otherwise) among German teachers. Some of them are very cynical. Here are some teacher's quotes. Note that these were actually published together with the name of the teacher who said it in the newspaper my brother's class did for graduation. Everyone's read them, parents, other teachers, the principal, but the respective teachers don't have to fear any consequences whatsoever. (I've not only included politically incorrect remarks but also some that are simply funny). I've sorted them by the teacher who made the quote.
teacher 1: "Fighting against mathematics means fighting against LIFE!" "There is no school that is fun to be in."
teacher 2: "I've done my good deed for today. I brought my wife the vacuum cleaner to the bed." Student:"Aah! There's a wasp!", Teacher: "I don't care. I hope it stings you." "Jesus sacrificed himself. I mean, he could have said 'Dad, get me down from this cross!' anytime. (about his post-war childhood and encounter with US troops) "At that time we saw the first negroes. At first we were afraid but then they distributed chewing gum." "I notice at once if someone's pretending. There is this other thing girls are good at pretending, but I recognize that, too!" Teacher to student:"You look like a bum." Student:"I look less like a bum than you do." Teacher:"Right. You don't stink and you don't have the stubbly beard that I have."
teacher 3: "Definition of savoir-vivre: Picknick on the highway without being run over by a truck."
teacher 4: "G�nther, get your ass blown out!" to another male student "I don't do it with guys as small as you."
teacher 5: "Even women are allowed to finish their sentences." to female student: "You're always smiling so nicely. But that's not enough for me. I want more." "We don't 'come' in any way. We're making an approach."
teacher 6: "Touch that hot test-tube. That is an order!" "If you put a chicken in the bath-tub, it's gonna swim. But when I put washing powder in the water the stupid thing's gonna drown." "OK, I'll sign you that excuse for the driving test, if you promise not to pass. There's already enough women who drive." "At 6000 degrees, everything evaporates. No <student's name> anymore. Just vapor and maybe a few drops from his water-head."
teacher 7: "Now we're going to hear a completely lame-assy speech. The one from the Queen."
teacher 8: "I liked it when those huge hailstones came down. They completely wrecked teacher 4's mobile home." "Let's talk about engineering for a while, so that we see it has positive and negative advantages." "In the USA every second person is already working in the Dienstleistungssektor. In Germany the figure is _only_ 54 percent."
teacher 9: Student: "It doesn't matter what you're famous for. It's only important that you _are_ famous.", Teacher:"Hitler said that, too."
To get these quotes into perspective, I want to repeat what I already said in another message. There's almost nothing a German teacher can do to keep students in check. No detention, no being sent to the principal,... That means that the way students talk to the teachers is at least a match to the above quotes. The best illustration is probably the last quote for teacher 2. It also shows that the teachers do self-referential humor, too. MSB
well here teachers in effect cannot be fired after a certain number of years because the MEA (michigan's teacher's union) is so powerful, unless they're gay and teach in Byron Center. But really bad teachers can't be fired, anyway. But that really doesn't give them greater choice because the departments decide the curriculum (like, English Dept chooses what books everyone in American Lit must read, etc.) The only person with real freedom is Frau because she is the German Department. So she can sit around in German 3/4 (that's the and four, not three fourths. Between third and fourth year German students there are 10 people) and read articles about how the modern public school system is failing....
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Dagny Scott wrote:
LOL. Over at my old high school we had a high turnover rate with our teachers, but only because the pay was so ridiculously low ($18,500/year, even if you had a master's or higher degree, which half the people there had). It was hard keeping the really good teachers we had, and if we had a bad teacher we were rowdy enough to scare them away...the French students had a great time scaring off Ms. Zuazu, us in World History loved scaring off Ms. -- crap, I forgot what her name was, but I remember she was a bitch --, we geometry students who had the most unfortunate luck of having her tried scaring off Ms. Inniss (but she quit the next year, so it was a semi victory), and several other really horrible teachers and staff members didn't last long because we could bully them out. One of our biggest success stories was getting Ms. Postell, our academic counselor for one year, out because she never communicated with any students or would let herself be available to communicate with any students.
But the good ones we cherished. Ms. Guardiola, our school secretary (ever since the early '70s she's been school secretary) is still there. And so's Ms. Heilner, who was my Spanish 2 & 3 teacher. Ms. Groesch, my AP English 4 teacher, is still there. And so's my Law teacher, Mr. Hurdle, who is so very wonderful.
Diane
Diane Aguilar of Diane Aguilar Stylistics writes:
Didn't you go to a catholic school? Wow, so all those rumours about the rowdy behaviour of catholic school pupils are true! There was a catholic school in the next town to ours and it was always claimed they were badly behaved and smoked and drank and fought, but you know, people always say that about rival schools so you can never be quite sure.
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
It depends partly on the school. I've seen Catholic schools stricter than your average military base.
Len
Len Pitre wrote:
That's the way our school was basically run. It's just that when you had an overwhelming majority (something like 2/3) of students who together put their minds to doing something at that school they usually did it. And there were a number of mean people there, people whose parents had (mistakenly) put them into Catholic school to discipline them. They usually behaved, although when they really hated someone they could put their minds together to create a solution such as bullying a teacher out. Besides, when they did that *everyone* was grateful. Really, you do not know how bad some of those teachers could be.
But our school still had the extreme strictness going for it. I could go onto a military base and not feel ill at ease with the rigidity, that's for sure.
Diane
[email] wrote:
/whiny parental unit mode on/
Diane, haven't we told you not to leave lines like that laying around?
/whiny parental unit mode off/
Diane, I'd be willing to bet that just you being *on* a military base would be the cause of most of the "rigidity" you would encounter.
;)
Dagny said:
Yeah! Instead of reading *Anthem* kids should read something written by a woman and ... wait a minute ...
I know what you mean :)
woman.
One of the really destructive effects of political correctness is that, since its standards change every decade or so, it isolates those wishing to be "politically correct" from the great thoughts and books of previous generations. This may well be the intent of those formulating the rules ... the more isolated the students' minds are, the less perspective they have from which to criticize the academic establishment.
In practice, "PC" literary analysis consists of deliberately misunderstanding the intentions of authors by interpreting them in reference to the political fashions currently prevalent in the left-wing academic culture. This makes it impossible to understand the real themes of anything not written within the last decade by leftists. A whole elaborate and ultimately senseless literary philosophy, "deconstructionism", is used to justify this butchery of the classics.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
She's not a woman. She's a conservative ;)
of course, the idea of everything is "don't criticize the academic establishment" so people don't realize how much they SUCK... and yeah they've been pretty isolated between the literary choices (LAME) and the TOTAL lack of ability to teach history (damn football coaches)
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
Yes the brilliant person who came up with the idea, not only CAN coaches teach, but they are actually REQUIRED to teach! And unfortunately, most schools have 3-4 coaches and only 1 film class. Of course it was always interesting to see how well the jocks would do on tests given by THEIR COACH! Especially given the rule that team members must maintain a c or better average. It was always hillarious to see the coach lurking over me to make sure I wasn't cheating (I was the school "satanist" because I listened to heavy metal and wore a grim reaper t-shirt on occasion) meanwhile you could hear the team members telling each other the answers from across the room!
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:17:40 -0500, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Diane Aguilar , and it said:
1250 is a good score. Don't knock it.
Well, when you talk about cultural bias, I personally don't think it works the way certain people claim it works. Many of the questions on the tests have to do with simple... don't konw how to say it, but the ability to rotate geometric objects in your head, or maybe word association, or something like that. Some could be culturally biased (unintend), but I think that the biggest thing that factors into the concept of a cultural bias is the very skill of taking tests, period. I managed to slide by in school, no studying, very little homework, simply because I was very good at taking tests. I've known people that knew as much as me, worked harder, and still couldn't do well on the tests. Written tests intimidate some people, for no other reason than they are tests. I, on the other hand, loved tests. They were the only way I could keep my grades up.
I didn't read much classic literature, either. Most of my reading was in the fantasy-fiction genre, in the Forgotton Realms, the Riftwar Saga and those that followed, etc.
Chemistry was evil. Physics was easy, when compared to chemistry. I didn't like chemistry.
I do hope you weren't insulted by any part of this thread. It's just a bunch of people trading potentially meaningless numbers. In reality, IQ has about as much to do with intelligence and/or potentiall for success as BMI has to do with actual health; that is to say, some, but not as much as some would have one believe.
Tarvok wrote:
Yeah, but when someone who's three years younger than when you got that score can knock off that same score, it makes you feel like a complete airhead. Like, "OK, so my learning disabilities *have* mattered".
I believe I saw something in some national TV newsmagazine showed how certain questions on the SAT showed a cultural bias. And it would be unintended, because I don't think the test designers really care about race/culture. They do it subconsciously.
I was one of those who worked really hard, did all my homework, but only did OK on tests. Like, I'd have a 100 homework average and about an 85 test average. I guess that's why I was never able to go beyond 1250 on the SAT or 28 on the ACT. I know I could've done better if I had the ability to test better.
Ah. I stuck with the generic classics, your "The Great Gatsby"s, your "Grapes of Wrath"s, your "Death of a Salesman"s, your "Hamlet"s, etc., etc., etc. Outside class reading was mainly "Robert Christgau's Record Guide: the 1980s" or anything I could find about Duran Duran. *g* Although I did read some required reading books/plays outside, too. I know I read "The Crucible" one year before I had to read it in class.
Really? I thought physics was supposed to be the hard one. I do know that I did well enough in Chem I and II to receive some recognition for it. I loved those classes. Benzene rings, polycarbon molecules, ionic & molecular bonding, subatomic particles...yum.
Oh no, just a little miffed. I don't know, I've been pulled in that direction everywhere, it seems. I guess once the 22nd rolls around and I'm having fun in Dallas watching my Very Favorite Group for the first time ever live, I'll be ready to handle just about anything. *Including* topics like this. :)
Diane
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:20:29 -0500, Diane Aguilar wrote:
Yeah, since 1000 is average (and normalized at average). I'd have to go look at my records to find out what I got and that would require work, so I'm not gonna do that :Pv
Well granted you feel a bit stupid then, but c'mon everyone's not the same...
Ditto. My test scores *raised* my grade. Nearly flunked out of calculus my senior year because I slacked off on homework so hard, but had a 91% on the final indicating that yes, I *did* know what I was doing after all :p Basically a repeat of Bio AP (but a bit more) where I got a B in the class and a 5 on the AP exam sophomore year... (AP exams are ranked 1-5 with 5 being the highest and count as college credits for those unfamiliar with the system) Now if only I could have done as well in English (only got a 3 on that, DAMMIT!)
Heh...out of class I went with technothrillers and then migrated to sci fi...still haven't gotten out of my sci fi trip and it's been several years :p
Hamlet was cool, TGG was OK, GOW was annoying DOAS sucked ;p
Yeah...I took an extra year of lab chem in high school just for the fun of it. Made all sorts of cool stuff like artificial orange flavoring, aspirin, nail polish remover...fun stuff :)
Damon Orca on #Stars!
Diane Aguilar of Diane Aguilar Stylistics writes:
The difficulty with Chemistry is that there are so many facts to learn. Physics is a smaller body of more cohesive knowledge than the behaviour of 103 recalcitrant elements. When I was doing my A-levels it seemed to me that each branch of Chemistry - Inorganic, Organic, and Physical - was a whole subject in itself. I liked the organic stuff too, also we learned a lot more about subatomic stuff than we did in Physics - our Physics teacher would be talking about the solar system model of the atom when those of us who did Chemistry already knew about s, p, d, f orbitals and the shapes of the electron probability fields.
-Shez.
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:49:56 GMT, [email] (Tarvok) wrote:
How dare you mention the fantasy genre without mentioning LOTR and The Dragonlance Chronicles. The former because it is THE classic and the latter because it is the single ultra-most �ber-best piece of fantasy ever written. MSB <preparing for flame-war :-) >
I signed up for advanced level chemistry, but then they announced that Mr Rosner (the o actually is an umlaut, but I'm not going to fire up the charmap program for him) would be holding the course and I opted out. I wasn't the only one, some other students did the same and in the end the course had less than the minimum 7 students meaning it collapsed. I wish I'd seen Rosner's face when they told him <evil grin>. I took physics and it was the best course I ever had. All that stuff was so useful, especially relativity theory. I use it constantly. MSB
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:17:40 -0500, Diane Aguilar wrote:
[snip sad life story]
Eine Runde Mitleid f�r das arme benachteiligte M�dchen. Ooohh. MSB
Matthias Benkmann wrote:
:P at you. I didn't intend for it to be a "sad life story".
Mande, hombre? Dime lo que dijes a mi en Ingles o Espanol, por favor.
(necesito ensenar a la idioma Aleman. por supuesto.)
Diane
(still reeling from the effects of Vicodin...whoooo)
On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:50:05 -0500, Diane Aguilar wrote:
don't think you're confusing me with that French.
My statement translates to "One round of compassion for the poor discriminated girl." but I haven't had any opportunity to use that phrase for a long time so I wanted to do it in German. I also wanted to see how you'd react and I'm a bit disappointed. I would have expected the above Quinn quote from you. MSB
p.s. Of course, I know it's Spanish and I can read it fairly well.
On the mountaintop, [email] (JMStargazr) spake thusly:
I had three weeks of Gifted, except the people were awesome. Which sort of makes it not Gifted anymore. Oh, well, I tried...
Actually, my life's been more like "The Teachings of Don Jake," except my dad's too smart to go find himself some psychotropic berries. Oh yeah, and throw in some wacky relatives. Sort of a cross between the Daria and Jane plots of said episode.
-Mindy Who now realizes she's more like "The Invitation," and gets knocked unconcious by a stray flying comma
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
[email] (JMStargazr) wrote:
I had a similar experience in 2nd grade-- i took some test and apparently did very well. The school wanted to move me up to 4th grade. Fortunately, my parents knew better-- the 4th graders would've stomped a mudhole in my arrogant little butt. ;-)
rich. (who went to public school all his life, and learned a hell of a lot.)
Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!
to a school to learn useless information when I can go to >public school for free?"
Surely: A public school for free is impossible by definition, unless you had a full scholarship? Or is this another American thing? Here public schools cost money, state don't.
On the mountaintop, "Greg Pallis" spake thusly:
Here, public school = state school and private = public, IIRC. Now watch how quickly I'm corrected :-)
-Mindy Who is wrong a lot lately - unless that statement's incorrect.
"Daria, you're giving me a headache!!" -Quinn Morgendorffer, "Daria"
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
Hey! I just noticed something! You use Dcode 1.1! Wow! Look at her - people! Don'tcha want a code like that too? You can get it you know :) Seriously, gratz . Now if only some others would :P
On the mountaintop, "Greg Pallis" spake thusly:
I do? I didn't know, but if it's a Cool Thing I'm willing to be in on it =D
-Mindy Bandwagon Jumper First Class
"Well bust my legs and call me shorty." -Daria Morgendorffer, "Daria"
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:07:08 +0100, "Greg Pallis" wrote:
America and the UK have precisely opposite definitions of "public schools". A "public" school is one open to everybody, funded by the state. A school you must pay to get into is a "private" school.
Kyle The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs
Ap D- T4 Ww Q++ Fn^FR O- Ow+OH+OO+Or+Od m- C--- MV! C5X F303 BB FCU! -DT--
I guess in American English 'public school' means the same thing as 'state school' does in English English. :)
Much though I like Arts'n'Crass, this is actually something of an off-the- shelf plot, I'm sure it's cropped up in several shows I've seen. For instance in Bailey Kipper's POV, Robin retracts her entry to the school art competition after seeing how her little brother has gone to pieces under competitive pressure, and instead submits a canvas which is blank apart from the words "Art should not be a competition". (To her dismay it wins.) There is a difference in the setting - in Daria the conflict is at school with Miss Li, whereas in BK-POV it's at home, with her dad demanding she enter her "good" painting, whilst Robin, being of a like mind to Daria, is saying Hell will freeze over before she'll compromise her principles (in fact, like Daria she's depicted as Joan of Arc at one point - a neat idea as she does in fact bear a resemblance to Ingrid Bergman).
I think there are probably only so many original plots in the world, in fact I think I once heard that Shakespeare had covered every possible plot. I'm not sure which play Arts'n'Crass equates too though.
-Shez.
Buster Logan wrote:
? While I'm on the topic of looks, I'm also glad that they resisted the ? temptation to make Daria and her friends conventionally beautiful. ?Daria IS ? beautiful, but in a subtle way, and not in the way that is currently ? fashionable (she's not a "waif"). [Quinn, incidentally, fails to meet ?her own ? standards of "cuteness" mostly because her face has too much ?character, which ? is apparent when you see the two sisters together].
You know, I would have said that it's easier to empathize with Daria , too. But I frequently watch the show with my younger sister, and she empathizes with Quinn. The reason she gave is that Quinn is just as bright as her sister, but seldom gets any credit for being "smart." I think you just empathize with the character who shares traits with you.
-Mary
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:49:01 -0400, Mary wrote:
Yeah. My art freak sister (who has some of her rather excellent charcoals - she loves charcoal :) framed in the living room) likes Jane the best. Me, I'm a Daria guy because *gasp* I see a lot of myself in her. And I'm still convinced that underneath Quinn's shallow shell is a personality and intelligence not too far behind that of her sister's...
Damon Orca on #Stars!
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:49:01 -0400, Mary wrote:
Interesting point. My brother has kind of the same problem. He's very smart (don't tell him I said that) but he's always been overshadowed by me. Maybe that's the reason why he's developed a personality that complements mine. I'm diligent, he's lazy. I'm unpopular, he's popular. I'm small, he's tall (yoohoo, a rhyme, I like rhymes). I'm a poster, he's a lurker (not on atd, of course). I watch Daria, he doesn't. And he shares none of my hobbies. Merge us two and you get the perfect human being (even better than Daria+Quinn). Believe me, there'd be no ass we couldn't kick together. MSB
In article ,
seen from
enough, and
Scientist
really
integrity, and
detracting
good
intelligence is
intelligent
to many
with the
only person
lot of
people.
Cute Babe
Daria IS
her own
character, which
beautiful by any
his
looks
I mean
Brittany, and
in the
its
Tiffany's
Brittany
weird but
because weird
adoringly
Damn, he's good!
wicka_chick
[email] wrote:
I know I shouldn't indulge you but I'm going to go ahead and do so. Besides, I'm feeling up for an explanation like this. (oh yeah, and I sometimes will watch "Ricki Lake" even though the musical guests on there are absolutely horrible...I hate most rap and that's mostly what it is...)
I'll post it to the group....
I watch "Daria" because the characters in it ring so true and it's exactly the type of show I dreamed would exist when I was a teen in high school. I saw so many "makeup girls" get so much popularity so easily (I had to work for my popularity, i.e. join as many clubs as I could and make my mark in the academic world while being "that funny, wacky girl") and the jocks and cheerleaders worshipped at my school that I felt quite a bit of uneasiness and resentment. Top that off with being a HUGE Duran Duran fanatic in the mid '90s and you've got someone who stuck out like the cliched sore thumb. In short, I didn't exactly find myself in a comfortable niche in high school. In grade school it was much worse as I worked twice as hard to be popular but I never got myself even close to being close to being popular. I think that's one of the main reasons why I identify with the Daria and Jane characters so much. Plus, it's one of the most realistic, if not the most realistic, shows on TV, which is shocking considering it's on MTV, a cable channel I swore I'd never care for.
I dreamed of a show where the heroines would be prized for their intelligence and wit and little else, and I got it with this show. So many other shows out there on TV don't have characters like that. For example, on "Friends" all the females are ditzy and all the males are either stupid or buffoonish. On "Dharma and Greg" the female is exceedingly uninformed about the real world (damn Scientology LOL) and the male is too rigid to be realistic. On "Drew Carey" the characters are a bit more realistic (I kinda like Mimi), but the cartoonishness is a bit on the garish side. I do like "Touched by an Angel" for its inspirational nature, even though it's a bit fantastical at times and relies too heavily on its lead female character being "radiant" (Della Reese is great, though, IMO). And that's just a small sampling of the shows out there. Other places have these really ditzy blonde female leads who are simply there because of their sex appeal, which really irks me. Very few shows out there have the intelligence of a "All in the Family", "Maude", "M.A.S.H.", "St Elsewhere", or "Hill Street Blues". Only a select small number have strong characters a la "The Golden Girls" and "Designing Women". And the last newish show to really have something to rave over was "Mad About You". So that pretty much leaves "Daria" by her lonesome. Which makes it all the more special. I envision this show being a classic for the history books.
No thanks. I've got too many things to do.
She who has just been talking for free ("I can't stop myself, it's a new religion"),
Diane
In article , [email] wrote:
Ah, well, I hate to upset you, but I think Ricki Lake is the worst show on TV.
then I, [email] wrote:
then she, citygirl7609 wrote: I watch "Daria" because the characters in it ring so true and it's exactly
school.
to
the
bit of
as I
to
why
one of
care for.
That's a great answer, although I'll tell you and every other girl out there: Don't worry about being popular, don't worry about even being pretty. It sucks to try and conform when no one will appreciate it. It's also un-empowering for women in general. Sad state of affairs, but it's true.
Just go with the flow and be yourself, because if you go through all that trouble, it might be painful. I mean, I like Daria beacuse her character actually *realizes* this at the early age of 16. People should take note (but not be so negative) and try to view the world from the outside in, because ultimately it's a healthier way to live.
cberdoz
by the way, I hate emoticons, but I guess it's some sort of law to use them. Sarcasm. What a great way to deal with the world.
Buster Logan said:
People might appreciate "it" but they would be appreciating "it", not "you". Furthermore, the people who would appreciate it the most aren't the ones who you would appreciate the most.
I think it's "un-empowering" for PEOPLE in general. I don't think it helps men to be attracted to a style of femininity which is essentially based upon deception; it sets them up to get hurt later.
Probably considerably earlier :)
Yet you also have to learn how to participate in a good way in the things going on around you. You have to be willing to compromise on the unimportant issues (for example, wearing "professional" clothes to work) and fight for your principles on the important ones (whatever's important to YOU).
Daria doesn't fully grasp this at the beginning of the series, but is slowly learning when to fight and when not to. In the process, she IS making friends, who respect her all the more because she is NOT tamely yielding to the social pressures around her.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article , [email] wrote:
loser
musical
Ricki's pretty tame. I think Jerry Springer's a hoot. Closest thing to Sick Sad World on the tube. Where else can you watch silicon enhanced, bisexual, teenage, sex industry hookers come out to their boyfriends. Too bad it's on after my bedtime.
about
<small snip>
the
a
bit on
inspirational
heavily
there.
simply
shows
small
over
lonesome.
classic
There's also "E.R." and for some "Ally McBeal". Then there's my own personal fave show with strong, responsible female cast members "Babylon5". (I had to write that, I'm wearing my Ivanova Is God t-shirt)
http://animation.acmecity.com/model/347/main.html
Went there, just for kicks. Toon dude. Has a link to Outpost Daria tho.
On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:49:28 -0500, Diane Aguilar wrote:
Hey! You forgot "Northern Exposure" It had several strong female characters with the possible exception of Shelly Tambeau-Vicour but even she had her moments.
Although the choices the networks are giving us for next season are pretty sad, there is still hope. "Sportsnight" is pretty good IMHO....Oh crap, that's the only good show on the Big Three I can think of right now. There WAS "NewsRadio" and "Homicide." "The Simpsons" is brilliant as usual (although there are about a dozen people here who would disagree for whatever reason.) I find "Futurama" very promising. Other than that TV really has become the vast wasteland predicted many years ago. Do I really need the Golf Channel?
I haven't seen "Maude" yet. I caught part of it in passing the other day but thought someting like "Bea Arthur?....Conrad Bain?....what the..There MUST be something better on right now." Despite the effect the theme song had on Rich, I'll give it another chance.
In article , [email] wrote:
Yawn... is this post over yet. Oh no, there's more. Boring!
Why not? (there's a curveball for ya)
I will politely decline that offer for the time being.
[email]:
You make it sound like an exam question. Are you asking us to do your homework for you or something? Why not work out the answer for yourself?
-Shez.
In article ,
What attracts you to show like Ricki Lake ?
[email] writes:
Ricki Lake is cool because she's living proof that you don't have to be interesting, attractive or intelligent to have a successful career.
-Shez.
He/she MAY have been sarcastic in the first paragraph, but on the other hand...
[email] wrote:
Just like you? What kind of comment is this?
Because it's one of the best shows on television.
The kind that occasionally displays good taste.
So, now we see the real reason for your post. No, I won't visit your site. Go plug it somewhere else.
[email] skrev i meddelelsen ... :...when there are so many other programs out there that are MUCH :better, like Ricki Lake or something. I mean, Daria's just some loser :girl who never got any in high school.
I'd rather not watch that! I don't really like talkshows...
:Seriously, why do you watch Daria? What kind of person are you that :makes you like it? What attracts you to this show? I'm curious about :its audience since I can find no other fans to speak to. Be as :specific as you can.
I am a geek, and I find it entertaining. There!! I said it!!!! Are you happy now?!?!?!?!?
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
<\=[ parasite ]=/>
- the leech of newsgroups worldwide -
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
http://smoke-a-joint.webjump.com
" I know it ain't much, but it's home... "
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@[email] skrev i meddelelsen ... :...when there are so many other programs out there that are MUCH :better, like Ricki Lake or something.
HA HA HA HA!!! You ARE kidding, aren't you?!?
:I mean, Daria's just some loser :girl who never got any in high school. : :Seriously, why do you watch Daria? What kind of person are you that :makes you like it? What attracts you to this show? I'm curious about :its audience since I can find no other fans to speak to. Be as :specific as you can.
I am a geek, and I find it entertaining. There!! I said it!!!! Are you happy now?!?!?!?!?
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
<\=[ parasite ]=/>
- the leech of newsgroups worldwide -
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
http://smoke-a-joint.webjump.com
" I know it ain't much, but it's home... "
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@Sorry for posting twice... My newsreader acting weird!
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
<\=[ parasite ]=/>
- the leech of newsgroups worldwide -
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@
http://smoke-a-joint.webjump.com
" I know it ain't much, but it's home... "
@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@=@