See Jane Run - Who's this Jane.

I saw Evil Empire's "Tarzan" yesterday and if my eyes didn't fail me, Jane showed Tarzan a children's book that read "See Jane Run". Is this a popular story in the English-speaking world? If it is could someone please read it to me (please mom, please, pretty please, pretty pretty please :-) I'm always eager to increase my knowledge of foreign cultures. MSB

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:49:46 GMT, [email] (Matthias Benkmann) wrote:

Er, I've read those books when I was a wee little girl so I've probably forgotten a lot of it. But I distinctly remember it included a boy named Dick, a girl named Jane, and a dog named Spot. It's basically a series of children's books to teach kids how to read.

Example: See Jane run. Run Jane run.

The names and actions are easily replacable.

Another example: See Dick throw a stick. See Spot fetch the stick.

Or something similar to that. Very brain-dead kinda stories. I think they were meant for little kiddies around the ages of 3 or 4. I'm sure Kevin (from "Daria") would've loved it.

See Nicole get stressed over school work. See Nicole pull hair out.

Nicole Lee

We had "Janet & John" books, which I think were some of the wonderfully slender hardbacks published by Ladybird. It's interesting how the writing gets smaller as the books get more advanced, as if learning to read were simply a matter of improving your visual acuity.

Is anyone in the UK watching the Dr Who reruns? It struck me that Jon Pertwee is rather like Daria in the way he treats people. Some of the acting looks pretty stilted now, but I think the plot holds up well against modern stuff such as X-Files.

See the Doctor run. Run Doctor, run.

-Shez.

On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:

I hope it works out, Alli. :)

Yeah, me too. You can only watch the same plot so many times before it gets old. Plus there's a certain ex-boyfriend of mine who was obsessed with it.

-Mindy

"I think I'm a mushroom... I must be a mushroom! Everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me bulls***!" -Ward Rubrecht

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

there's a slight *distance issue* because he lives 200 miles away. :/ other than that, no problems. except the fact that i'm already going out with someone. that doesn't seem to be bothering bloke #2 though. ;)

it does get tiring after a while.. and the ex-boyfriend thing can't exactly add to your enjoyment...

Doesn't bloke 1 live about 100 miles away too? (Luton?) Hmmm...

Greg Whose Girl 1 also lives an absurd distance away :( *needs a car*

luton's only about 40 miles away, and bloke 1 has a car. bloke 2 isn't old enough to drive, and neither am i. why can i not attract men i know irl? lol.

you can sympathise, then.

endless, nameless wrote:

Hey, my guy lives thousands of miles away in a completely different continent, and it sucks to have contact when your phone lines have long distance access blocked. The only way I could see my guy is if he or I hopped onto a transatlantic flight lasting 12-plus hours, and the only way we could actually talk to each other is if either he calls or if I get a phone card. *sigh*

LI, the happy coughing girl who's at least happy he's online

Lady Interference wrote:

Hey, Diane-- have you tried those internet phone programs? I haven't tried 'em, m'self, but it can't hurt much, can it? Or better yet, get one of those cheap USB netcams and a proggie like NetMeeting or CU SeeMe.

BTW-- I know what you mean about the coughing-- I caught a cold in Dallas a month ago, and I'm *still* coughing. :P

rich.

Jake: I love camping! I love it! ... Has anybody seen my pants?

Netmeeting has one of the best connections that i've heard, and there's no buttons to press as far as (internet) phone goes. HearMe is also another good one, except you have to hold down a button to talk. Also, the new AIM has internet phone, but it's still in beta process I believe, and right now the feedback from it is horrible.

Personally I'd go with netmeeting, but it's really hard to get connected to. Next best, would be Hearme.. both work. I'm not sure how well it'd work with someone on a different continent, but like someone else said it's worth a shot. :)

G'luck

Insptr

paperpusher wrote:

Actually, no I haven't. Do you happen to know if they cost any?

I probably won't be able to afford a netcam for some time, as I'm saving up for next semester. But I do have a handy-dandy microphone so I could do anything voice-oriented, so long as it doesn't cost any or it costs VERY VERY little for a VERY VERY long time.

Well, I'm a five hour drive southwest of Dallas.... Heck, I know of quite a few people at work who are ill, so maybe it's a Texas thing. *shrugs* I do know, though, that it's bronchitis, but it's not the type that'll become pneumonia.

Hope you feel better soon,

LI, still happy, still coughing

On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:43:47 -0600, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Lady Interference , and it said:

Dialpad.com will make PC to Phone connections. The phones connections are limited to calling phones in the continental US, Hawaii, and Alaska and are free. Your boyfriend would have to initiate the call from his PC. Another free site, Visitalk.com, offers excellent PC to PC internet phone calling, and video conferencing with voicemail. It is used in conjunction with NetMeeting (free), and the site supplies a piece of software they call the connector which starts Netmeeting, and logs you onto their server. It also includes a cool voicemail recorder/player. This software makes it real easy to videoconference, or just use voice. Visitalk offers free online tech support. There is someone there to help you test your system. They also have the only multiport videochat rooms that I know of as well. The audio quality of a 56k modem connection (including video) is better than connections I�ve made using DialPad with audio only. Try them both, but my recommendation is Visitalk. I have seen the Intel USB cameras for as little as $49 after rebate. This is also my personal choice, especially at that price! Chuck

In article ,

get

saving up

do

VERY

quite a

*shrugs* I do

become

On Thu, 02 Dec 1999 01:50:44 GMT, Chuck Evans wrote:

I saw an add for a $20 digital video camera after rebate (60 before)...hell I might just get one since it's so cheap.

Of *course* it's probably a total POS...but ya get what ya pay for :p

Damon Orca on #Stars!

Precisely...You get what you pay for. I get compliments all the time on the image transmitted from that camera. You do have to focus! Other people I videoconference with on Visitalk.com using the Intel PC camera get similar comments. good luck, Chuck

In article ,

$49 for the Intel camera?? that's pretty good, where did you buy yours? The lowest I've seen is $59. I use it with Visitalk and it seems to work pretty well.

Chuck Evans wrote in message news:824j9j$bbf$[email]...

I honestly don�t remeber. Thought I saw that $49 rebate offer about a month ago (so they should be cheaper, just like memory ;-}, at Office Max or Office Depot or Staples. The specials are usually good for a week. Just have to watch the adds, but I bet you could find it cheap with a price search engine. Or you could ask around at videoconference sites like Visitalk.com. Chuck

In article , "Jimmy M" wrote:

yours? The

pretty

If you don't wanna spend $49 just on the PC, you can get a digital camera for $200 something. In that case, your digital camera can also be used for internet conferencing. That's what I am doing right now.

Si

In article ,

videoconference

Greg Pallis wrote:

Heh...I'm not looking for sympathy...fundage would help greatly, especially if it's in greenbacks...LOL, just kidding.

Actually, I'm really not looking for sympathy, just wanted to vent. And while money would help a lot in this situation, I won't rush its appearance. Thanks for the thoughts, though.

LI, still happy, still coughing

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:41:18 -0000, "Greg Pallis" wrote:

I could put the "Now stop.." line here again. I've realized a few days ago (lying to myself didn't work any longer) that I'm totally in love with a girl I've never even met because she lives thousands of miles away (we just exchange letters and email). And she already has a boyfriend. I'm feeling so awful. And I'm terribly confused, too. This is the first time I've fallen in love with a girl and it's completely unrelated to her looks (which is not to say she isn't pretty). I've had crushes on pretty girls in the past but those superficial things passed quickly. I never even tried talking to them. What should I have said anyway? "Hi, you're pretty. How about a totally superficial relationship with a geek who has nothing in common with you and probably won't even like you?". But this time I have the feeling that we really understand each other. How am I ever going to get over this? And I'm so nervous because there is another premi�re for me. For the first time I've actually admitted my feelings to a girl. I wonder how she's going to react (the letter should arrive there any day now. I didn't want to use email because I think that would be inappropriate). And I don't know if I should be writing her love-letters in spite of her boyfriend. What do you think? Is that inappropriate? I don't want to put our friendship at risk, especially since the distance issue practically eliminates any chances of getting together. MSB

p.s.: I have changed my email and removed my real name from my address. I have already posted too much personal stuff here that is now archived for everyone to read in Deja (I know about the Nuke functionality but a lot of the stuff has been quoted by other posters).

Congrats on being mature enough to accept your fate. Welcome to the insanity. There is no cure.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, young man, but you're not going to.

I'm all for telling another human being that you have good feelings for them. Hell, there are even times when telling someone to take a long dive off a short bridge is quite appropriate. In this case, I'd have to say be prepared for a fall.

First off, the lady in question has a boyfriend. If she is the type that will dump him for you, you'll always wonder you will come along next. If she professes deep feelings for you while keeping her home guy, well, let's not go into two-timing. This is your first time up in the game.

I'm willing to bet that because you care so much for her, that she has traits that you admire, intelligence, creativity(sp?), honesty, etc. That's why I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're going to get a message back something along these lines.

"Dear MSB, I am really touched by your letter and that you have such feelings for me. I didn't expect it. I care for you a grest deal too, but not in the way you are hoping for. I already have a boyfriend and I care for him very much. I have always enjoyed corrosponding with you and I hope we can remain friends.

Your Friend, Her Name Here"

How you handle this will not only show what kind of man you are, but also what kind of man you will become.

Best of luck guy. I'm proud of you. And welcome to the firing range.

Jon The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.

On 26 Nov 1999 15:58:16 GMT, [email] (Jon) wrote:

I agree but it's a bit more complicated here. From what I gather, the relationship between her and her boyfriend is going through a difficult phase right now. Of course I have no way of knowing particulars but as far as I can tell they've been through some splitting up and getting together again. And when she mentioned him in her letter, she only spoke about how cute he is. I might be overinterpreting this but if that's what comes to her mind when she tries to write about him, well, I guess you know what I mean. This is actually my dilemma. If I knew they were a really happy couple, sharing deep feelings, I'd just cry silently to myself and accept it. After all, I want her to be happy. But now, what am I going to do? I certainly don't want to be the reason for a final split-up between the two. That would be wrong. I would feel like a vulture picking on the carcass of a failed relationship. On the other hand, what if she's just clinging to him because she's afraid of losing the only person who loves her. If that's the case I simply have to tell her about my feelings, don't I? MSB

MSB: I'm totally in love with a girl I've never even met because she lives thousands of miles

Jon:

sure he will. time gives perspective.

but i agree with the rest of what jon said, before.

If you broke it off now, MSB, you'd probably be pretty much over it in a few months. Sure you'd probably be a little more jaded, and the great apostle that is our natural belief in the strength of Love will be further eroded by cynacism and bitterness. but, hey, join the club - we've got free cocktails during happy hour.

the question is: there aren't (proportionately) many cool people around. you've found one. is it worth the emotional trouble to keep her as a friend? so what's the value of a great relationship? my uncle frank reckons it's $135, but he's a tightass.

i'd also like to say i totally agree with Tarvok's very wise words: "Complete and utter honesty is a road to power, not over others, but over the self. " MSB seems to have that pretty much covered, so he's one step ahead of me.

Will.

On the mountaintop, [email] (MSB) spake thusly:

Gods, MSB... I have no answers to any of those questions. Life would be so much easier if I did. For now, all my confused teenage self can do is offer sympathy and comforts. I'm sorry. :-(

-Mindy Always a shoulder to cry on

"Now stop pitying yourself and pity ME, for god's sake" - MSB

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

I've been there. Enough people know that already thanks to my complete lack of ability to keep anything to myself. Except this person was married and there was an age differential. But it was a correspondence thing and a lot of things and... yeah.

Umm, you're probably not, if what I've gone through is any indication, even though I got a real boyfriend, who I do care about, but not the same... what an odd situation. Maybe we should all be in the Victorian era, romance by correspondence was common then. Err... maybe not.

It's truth. I think it's the right thing, but I'm idealistic. Could be tragic. But maybe not. Maybe things can work better for you.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny Scott wrote in message news:[email]...

tragic.

Truth is an important value. Discretion is another. It's possible to choose not to say something without losing one's integrity.

Perhaps it's better to be frank, even if the outcome of that is a bagful of rejection and humilation, than to spend weeks (or months, or years) thinking, "If only I'd said something!"

I wonder. In a more formal age, when courtship progressed by understood stages, did people have more protection against making (or receiving) unwelcome declarations? More chance to pick up "interested/not" signals at each stage, and escalate only if the last stage produced an encouraging response? Of course not everyone, even in a society like that, would be capable of interpreting the signals, or sensitive enough to act accordingly. "I say, Miss Morgendorfer, I'd be very pleased if you'd take a walk around the park with me." "Why, Mr Ruttheimer, you are too kind. But I fear I might take a chill." "Gadzooks! A spirited wench!"

Martin.

Wow. I think you should be praised for using "Gadzooks!" in an Internet post, at least.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On 26 Nov 1999 15:37:50 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

What does it mean? MSB

MSB wrote in message news:[email]...

post,

Well, "Gadzooks! A spirited wench!" means, "Rrrrrrrrr. Feisty!" But in archaic English.

NODE defines "gadzooks" as "an exclamation of surprise or annoyance."

Martin.

Gadzooks was originally God's Hooks, (i.e his nails, i.e the ones in the cross), I think, but since back then you didn't take the Lord's Name In Vain, it got abbrievated. Like Zounds = God's Wounds

Greg

I've seen some long distance relationships online work out. My roomies for example. They met online years ago, and never saw eachother until they MOVED IN together. Talk about taking a big leap. But they've been living together for 2 years, pretty happily, so I guess these things can work sometimes. I've also seen how online RPG's can end marriages when characters run off with other ones. (Don't ask) Some of these people actually got married. I'm not saying that I feel this is good or bad, I'm just saying, you never know. Hope whatever happens, works out for the best.

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:24:05 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (MSB), and it said:

Bwahaha! Sounds like my freshman year, or rather, the year before. As a freshman, by the month of October (always an active month for me) I'd decided I should actually try something (simply make an effort to get to know... someone... better, and then decide what's next). All those random crushes that used to be so prevalent suddenly dried up. It was an effort to actually find a _target_.

Well, as to how you can get over it, if it even touches on the intensity of emotion I once had for this one girl, I doubt you will, at least totally. It'll be covered up by more recent feelings for others, of corse, but I never truely *forget* the feelings I have had for anyone. Even a girl I once had a crush on in grade school could invoke those ancient uncertainties to this day (which caused me considerable ire when some morons decided to resurrect the news... five years later... as if it was news today). Anyway, anger, hatred, these I can forget, or rather, forgive. Love, however, is forever... though it takes many forms. And it's once you learn to control the form that you truely have power over the situation. I consider the ability to accept that one can love and not be "involved" the height of maturity.

For those of us blessed (or cursed) with the capacity for such heights of emotion, it is very important to separate our concept of Love from our more selfish desires. If you try, it will come with age and experience.

Eww... it hasn't happened yet. Hmm... how old are you? I am eternally curious about this... phenomeon. As to how you are ever going to get over this... hopefully, the girl is... what's the word... posesses sufficient integrity to not sit there and wax and wan about whether or not it would work out. (If she does, it's up to you to bring straight line thinking into the issue.) She has a boyfriend. Either that must end for this to continue, or you need to hit the breaks. _Hopefully_, she'll resolve that for you, by doing one or the other. Many are incapable, and if you're anything like me, *she* very likely is incapable of such certain actions. As to appropriateness... see below.

Friendship is indeed at risk, though this doesn't automatically blow it out of the water. What matters is how you, and she, react to the issue. If you can both somehow resolve this issue maturely and efficiently, the friendship can be preserved, and even reach a level it had not previously possessed. However, given that this is your first time, I doubt it'll proceed smoothly. Just prepare to ride out the storm; there is a rainbow at the other side.

As to the appropriateness... normally, I avoid expressing my desire for one who is already taken. In most cases, such feelings will fade from neglect, if nipped in the bud soon enough. But, there has been one instance in which I felt the need to be honest about this (the one previously mentioned). This was because, despite my efforts, despite all the *time* that had passed, the feelings were no closer to being reduced, and possessed a sheer... *reality* that the only way to end the pain was to be open and honest about them. She understood, but loves her current boyfriend, and was very straightforward about that. It helps. An intense feeling which is, to use a biblical term, "in the light" (revealed to any who bother looking) has much less power than one which is "in the darkness" (hidden). This has a near infinate degree of practibility. In this instance, the day I try to claim the feelings are gone is the day I am torn apart by the feelings. So long as it's something everyone knows about, it's _sooo_ much easier to deal with.

<warning: unrelated examples ahead>

Another example is negative emotions. If you seriously resent someone who is normally a friend of yours, the best thing to do is disassociate yourself from those feelings as best you can (look at them from a distance, figuratively speaking, to avoid having them control you) and reveal these resentments. They can be dealt with in a straightforward manner from that point forward. If they remain hidden, they simply tear you apart inside until they gain complete control and you end up lashing out irrationally, in one way or another.

Suicidal thoughts are the same. I once had a few of those. The first thing I did was tell my parents about it. There was no way in hell I was going to let a melancholy of that degree grow into something worth worrying about. Though the parents have to be equally capable of handling such a revalation rationally; mine are. The things that caused this deep sadness suddenly seemed stupid when I talked about them; life goes on, bad situations come to an end at some point.

Complete and utter honesty is a road to power, not over others, but over the self. Lies decieve not only the hearer, but the teller as well. Building power on a base of lies is building a house of cards; one gust of wind will send it flying.

Okay, I've rambled enough, and said far too much. But, I hit send, anyway, with no editing, because I am an arrogant fool who thinks he knows stuff. :p

• Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR O Os m c- MV- C5X F102,209,308 BB+ FCJ +DT++ q FS:p

Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.

Tarvok wrote:

mine aren't... it's really not worth the bother, letting them know what's going on. they just make things worse.

Yes. If I tell my parents somethig, they're all really understanding and stuff. And then two days later you find, while rooting around looking for the modem your mother has hidden, a copy of a letter to your Grandparents telling them the whole thing :(. Sigh, mothers :P

Greg

I did... six years ago... think about suicide. I didn't tell anyone about it. I told Katie several years after the fact and some others, after the fact. My parents I've never told. I can't tell them anything, especially my mother. I can't even tell her I have a headache, she'll send me to a doctor who'll ask me a bunch of annoying invasive questions. I can't tell her Virginia in Science Olympiad is a nice person without her constantly telling me to do something with her and I can't tell her Mike on AOL is a really cool guy without her telling me that people online are freaks and you shouldn't get involved or anything.

aaargh...

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On 26 Nov 1999 21:43:17 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

I hate it when people condemn things they don't understand, especially parents. I suppose that's why most kids have to hide from their parents, because most people condemn that which they do not understand. And if one must condemn, I strongly believe that one must be willing to investigate, to find out exactly _what_ is being condemned, rather than simply shrinking back and squawking in hatred and fear. I consider those who do true cowards.

For instance, rather than saying "people online are freaks", perhaps she should <gasp!> take an interest in exactly _who_ this Mike person is? To do otherwise is pointless at best (you continue along your path in spite of her) and counterproductive at worst (you continue along your path, in spite of any of your own reservations, ending up in a dangerous position, deliberately to spite your parents).

Tarvok said:

Well, also, Dagny's mom is assuming that the medium is the message; i.e. that "people on the internet" are "freaks", when of course "people on the internet" are as variable as any other community in terms of morality and reliability. And of course, she's ignoring that Dagny too is a "person on the internet".

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Dagny said:

How seriously did you think about it? I thought about suicide about 8-10 years ago; one of the results of my thoughts was my story "Fade to Black" (on Dagny's site).

I'm glad you didn't kill yourself though. In retrospect, most of the reasons we have for contemplating suicide never seem as cogent as they did when we were depressed. I'm glad I've lived a decade longer, and I'm glad that you're alive, too.

Well, she's right! Guys you meet online are foul and wicked and EVIL and you should never talk to them and ... oh, wait, never mind :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Tarvok wrote in message news:[email]...

Wise words. I was about 16 when I discovered Blake's _A Poison Tree_.

    I was angry with my friend:
    I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
    I was angry with my foe:
    I told it not, my wrath did grow.
    ...

I reckon that bearing in mind the insight of that poem saved me a lot of grief over the years.

Full text of the poem (and others from _Songs of Innocence and of Experience_) online at http://sailor.gutenberg.org/etext96/pblak10.txt

Martin.

We had to talk about the rhyme scheme or something in that poem... oh well. At least we didn't have to draw a picture of a tree, which would be a normal Freshman Lit assignment

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On 27 Nov 1999 13:15:43 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Tell me about it. In high school, I was fortunate to have one of the valley's (if not the nation's) finest history teachers my freshman year. Didn't like him personally, but he did no how to get _everyone_ to understand and remember. The title of freshman history was Modern World History.

There were other, however, who got a different teacher. They referred to their class as Modern World Coloring.

The reason I didn't take Western Civilization. The grading scale is you get an A if you use glitter.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

I hope you're kidding, but this sounds like something you mentioned to me before ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

I wish I was kidding.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:01:51 GMT, [email] (Tarvok) wrote:

You didn't keep the "age of viewers" thread? I'm 23 now. I have managed to get through my life with the aura of a neutral observer, someone who knows all, understands everything but never participates in anything. Do you want to know my secret? I take all my feelings, everything that could provide a target for other people to humiliate me and transform it into hatred, contempt and pity for everyone paired with boundless arrogance (don't tell me you haven't noticed) and an extreme feeling of superiority. I pretend to myself that I am better than everyone else because I do not share their petty problems. I basically define every notion of being human as "weakness" and use sarcasm and fake happiness to disguise these weaknesses whenever they try to surface. Or rather it was like this. But now my carefully crafted fa�ade has collapsed and I find myself standing here, completely naked and unprotected with a large heap of emotions I've never learned to deal with. It's like someone has invaded my archive of feelings, broken all the double and triple locks and emptied all the drawers in front of me and told me to "sort it out". And who's responsible for all this? Daria and ATD. Yes, you are responsible, YOU ALL!! I could have gone on for decades. But you goddamn philosophers made me think about myself too much. You've turned my stable and functioning life into an unstable and unpredictable mess (oh oh, I get the uneasy feeling I'm going to see the previous 2 sentences in the "What readers say about it" chapter of the official ATD advertising brochure). And the worst thing is that because of your brainwashing I even believe it's better that way so that I can't even hate you for it. MSB

Welcome to our club, MSB, welcome to our club. As long as USENET doesn't crash, you'll always have a place with us.

BTW, there is SOME good news-- by having to sort through everything you will, over time, gain some insight into just exactly what *is* important in life to you. But you're on the right road-- taking emotional risks like that is ALWAYS better than a life filled with regrets. A lot of us older folks have been there, done that, and gotten the T-shirt. You're doing the right thing, even if it does feel awfully unnatural, scary, and frustrating as hell to you.

Side Story: I was talking with my father a while back, and we were talking about life, and regrets, and jobs and such, and I asked him what he thought was the most important thing he did. He said that to him, the most important part of his job was connecting with the people he worked with, nurturing them, and helping them on their way to wherever it was they needed to go, career-wise or any other-wise. He got tremendous satisfaction out of doing all he could to help people that way, and felt that it made all of the long hours and BS worth it. As he put it, you can help a tremendous number of people by just helping one person, and have a more lasting effect than you could possibly imagine. People can be a royal pain sometimes, but on balance, I've always find that I get more than I give in my relationships with people, and the more I give, the more I get.

Just something to think about.

rich.

"Absolute certainty is stasis, boring. We need uncertainty -- it's the only way to go." -- Dr. Leon Lederman, physicist.

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:50:48 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

Now I see through the whole thing. This is one of those cults. First you make me abandon my functioning good life and once I've reached the point where I can't go back you open your arms wide to welcome me to my new family. And 1 month from now, Jan 1, 2000 we're all going to commit mass suicide. Well, okay, count me in :-)

I can only agree. I used to help people a lot in school and I often help acquaintances fix their computers. It really does give you a heart-warming feeling. MSB

p.s.: I wonder if the above cult thing has put us on the FBI's surveillance list. If we're not on it already.

On the mountaintop, [email] (MSB) spake thusly:

See? It's fun! :-D (Is it okay if I'm in another cult at the same time as atd, BTW? I swear that the Clique (my friends from camp) are another cult...)

Yeah, it does... that's why I love helping my friends out with their problems, or just being a sympathetic ear. Even though I'm only 14, there _are_ some good things I can do for people.

I think they've known about us for _quite_ a while...

-Mindy

"You will never find true happiness. Whatcha gonna do, cry about it?" -Weird Al Yankovic

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

[email] (MSB) wrote:

Nah, we'd never do it on such a *predictable* date. Besides, we'd miss the beginning of season4!!! ;-)

Yeah, disgusting, ain't it? ;-) Seriously, though, I love to help people out-- I think it must having something to do with being a Cancer-- we're supposed to be nurturers. ;-)

Hey the FBI already has my fingerprints...

... and those of every other licensed attorney in the nation. No, I don't know why, but I can guess. ;-)

And here are a few more gratuitous emoticons, too... ;-) ;-) ;-)

Sorry-- it's late, I'm giddy. Long weekend. :)

ru--ru-- ri-- ah the hell with it-- paperpusher.

"Joseph Stalin, grab my armored muu-muu and together we will leave this foul Earth behind." -- Toon-La.

of course we are. we think. and many of us read. and other dangerous subversive activities.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 02:04:09 GMT, [email] (MSB) wrote:

I did that once. I regret it.

As I said in an earlier thread. The facade of social immunity can only last so long.

This was guarenteed to happen. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.

"Wow, Daria, you just may join the human race after all."

Believe me, relying on hatred and arrogance for your own defense is not the way to go. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I like it on this side, thank you very much. Believe me when I say this: don't give up on this new side of yourself. It may be painful now, as you deal with feelings you've never had to deal with before, but once those feelings pass (and, indeed, they will) whatever the outcome, you'll notice a freedom you've never known before, at least I think this is how it is. That's how it is with me.

You've spent your whole life trying to maintain a facade, trying to convince yourself that you are somehow superior to everyone else, that you do not need what others need. The maintainance of such a facade requires energy, and the stress can be invisible to one who has never known otherwise. However, when the stress of having to deal with the emotions pass, there is a calm, as you realize that the weight of the facade has been lifted. If the longing remains, there is a sadness, as well, but it is a calm sadness. And it is soooo much more relaxing than the constant maintanance of a lie.

On the mountaintop, [email] (MSB) spake thusly:

Would you believe that I know where you are? It happened with the friends I met at camp, the guy I just broke up with in particular. When you finally meet a group of people that you can see as worthy of your attention, people you can understand and people who understand you, it breaks through all your defenses and it _changes_ you. It shakes you to the very foundation of your being and makes you rethink the very person that you are. And if you're like me and have built your entire philosophy of life on the ideal that people are unworthy of you, you have an entire philosophy and way of being to change, to rethink and rebuild. And it isn't easy. But it's better than the way you were, at least it has been for me. Even though there's been pain in breaking through my defenses, the joy in being with people who know and understand and are there for me is _so_ worth it.

-Mindy (Who is hoping she's making some sense)

"Hey, I'm just thankful I'm still an efficient exchanger of oxygen and carbon dioxide. It's the little things... ;-)" -Paperpusher

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

Mindy wrote in message ...

When you finally

your

your

like

are

to

ok, mindy, say one hasn't found the required 'worthy people', what is one to do?

Will.

On the mountaintop, "Bert Newton" spake thusly:

Wait until one does. You will.

-Mindy

"You will never find true happiness. Whatcha gonna do, cry about it?" -Weird Al Yankovic

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

They're a bit like buses. None for ten years, and then three come along at once.

(The trouble is though, keeping yourself occupied whilst waiting at the bus stop.)

-Shez.

Shez of the Last Stop Cafe writes:

Just to follow up my own post, I just put a related item online, it's one of my favourite essays, "Che Sara Sara" by Joel Biroco. I don't expect you'll have heard of him, he's an ex-chaos magick guy who hand-prints his books with an old lead-type printing press and only 175 copies of the above work were made. Anyway his take on life the universe and everything is now on my site at <URL: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/che_sara.htm> there's also a link to it under "stop press" on my homepage.

-Shez.

Tarvok said:

Absolutely. Any advantage gained from a lie leaves you vulnerable to exposure; it also leads you to overestimate your true positon.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

I have an exactly 40% record for attracting girls I know irl. Sounds good, except I've only ever met 5 girls of my own age ever :( That's incredibly depressing and sad :( Stupid all-male school *gouges out own throat*

yes

I demand all bands ever boycott Bristol, in order to get more visits to London from cute Bristolians :) And all films, too :P

Kyle; can you put that in your election pledge?

See Jane run. Run, Jane, run.

See Narquozxlx chase Jane Narquzxlx catches Jane

See Jane scream ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

When I was in first grade, which was a long time ago, there was a series of primary reading books about Dick and Jane. Simple, insipid little stories about Dick, Jane, Sally the baby, Spot the dog, and Puff the cat. Three or four short lines in large type on a page with a large color illustration on it to clue you in if you were too stupid to figure out what the words said. Even as a five-year-old in first grade I thought they were stupid and elementary (well, it was elementary school) but they were intended to teach us tykes how to read, an absurd waste since I was already reading before I started first grade. I'd gnash my teeth as I waited for the others to laboriously read the simple lines aloud, word by excruciating word. Just like Tiffany the counselor in "It Happened One Nut." ARGGG! I guess I was an impatient child. A foreshadowing of things to come as it only got worse as the years went by.

I'm quite sure that's where the title for "See Jane Run" came from.

Look, look, see Jane run. Run, Jane, Run! See Spot run. Run, Spot, Run! Bite Jane on the ass.

In the U.S. in the 1950s and '60s, at least, the Scott, Foresman and Company publishing house pretty much owned the market for elementary school reading texts. Their first year, first semester text was called "Fun With Dick and Jane". It began:

"Dick said, "Look, look. Look up. Look up, up, up."

Jane said, "Run, run. Run, Dick, run. Run and see."

The whole book went on like that, and at some point probably included "See Jane run."

Now, those of us in Catholic schools were denied the opportunity to experience Dick, Jane and Sally. *We* got John, Jean, and Judy, though Spot and Puff got to keep their names. These three Js (Ha! TDR!) did just about everything that Dick, Jane and Sally did, plus go to Mass on Sundays, have crucifixes on the walls of their home, and have nuns for teachers. They didn't add the part about getting hit by the nuns with the blackboard pointer if you had the audacity to finish the whole freakin' book during the first week of school because you already knew how to read.

Fortunately, kids today don't have to suffer these indignities. There are so many new and better ones... And besides, who says kids need to learn to read as long as they feel good about themselves?

Peace Kevin

On 17 Nov 1999 14:08:43 GMT, [email] (KTrick45) wrote:

<snip Dick and Jane rendition>

Emn, mind my ignorance on all things Christian, but why exactly were the names John, Jean, and Judy preferred over Dick, Jane, and Sally?

Nicole Lee

Nicole Lee wrote:

I'm not sure it's "things Christian." Maybe it was just to differentiate the versions. Then again, I'm not sure that Jane and Sally are saint's names. The Catholic Church used to be very particular about having to use saints' names for children. And, come to think of it, I don't remember any Janes or Sallys in any of my classes in grade school either. Hmm... Anyway, though saints' names are still recommended, they'll now baptize your child, even if you name her Quinn. (Daria's always been a permissible name).

Peace Kevin

KTrick45 of AOL http://www.aol.com writes:

Ooh, more laws about naming children, how very Scandinavian of the Church.

-Shez.

maybe they think 5-year-olds are half-blind..?

i haven't been watching much tv at all... and these past few days i've been talking on AIM a lot, mostly to the guy mentioned in my previous post. <massive grin> ...

<still grinning>

i used to watch the x-files... got bored.

I've never seen the book myself but I've heard of it a bunch of times. It's this book that's supposed to teach little children how to read. I think the title is "Fun with Dick and Jane". It's about two little kids named Dick and Jane and their dog Spot. Some of challenging text involves lines like "See Jane. See Jane run." and things to that effect.

*~*~*~*~* Liz *~*~*~*~*~*~* See my auctions here - http://auctions.yahoo.com/user/Napua_Poire

In article ,

The line comes from a series of children's readers in the 1950s and 60s. The books would be filled with very basic "stories" about Dick and Jane, two suburbanite children, and the sentences went along the lines of: "See Jane. See Jane run. Run, Jane, run!" --Tice Rust:-- The other Y2K problem.