Ambivalence about Channel 5 (UK); UK source for Daria videos?

Hello, fellow Morgendorfferphiles, especially UK ones.

I'm feeling ambivalent about channel five (did ee cummings design their logo and write their Teletext, sorry, teletext, style sheet?).

I discovered Daria because of channel five: good.

The c5 Continuity Announcer mocks Our Girl(s) when he introduces the show: bad. Do people who feel an affinity with Daria and Jane feel derided because of his remarks? Feel labelled as miseries or (frequent one, this) manic depressives? I get angry about that one; it was only a brief course on mental disorder that I studied (IIRC 13 x two hour sessions), but it was enough for me to know that mocking, trivialising use of medical terms is not the height of responsibility...

/pompous_mode=off/ !

I guess the c5 continuity announcer, or whoever writes his links, is just a *huge* Quinn fan! 8-)

Daria is on at eleven every Sunday: good.

UK Morgendorfferphiles have pointed out here that the channel five episodes are sliced: bad.

I don't have satellite or cable, so MTV is no solution for me. I do have a V90 modem, but thanks to BT, connections above 38K are as rare as hen's teeth: the streaming episodes from daria.org arrive on my PC more slowly than it takes a thought to form in what Kevin probably likes to refer to as his mind. *Please* don't tell me to get up and try at six in the morning, when websites hosted on American servers load faster for UK users...

So, a question: does anyone know if Daria is available, in the UK, on video? If so, from where?

Waiting with bated breath.

Martin.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

What does he say? The ubiquitous Carson Daly is always referring to her as "the lovely Daria", yet I feel he doesn't quite mean it. I mean, for God's sake, he hangs out with that revolting new veejay...er, whassisname. The slack jawed, gum-smacking one whose idiocity is championed by MTV. Everyone still thinks Daria is the misery chick (even some of the fanfics I've seen) and it's frustrating. My own Mom keeps close to the phone in case she feels the sudden need to book me into a depression clinic (Hey, what can you do? At least she cares.)

That's too bad. Have they aired all the episodes in England yet?

This I do not know. The purists complain that a lot of the real incidental music from the show got replaced with more generic stuff, but you get the advantage of not having to see ads for "The Waterboy", "Dead man on Campus", or whatever MTV is advertising when you tape it manually, "Real World", "Loveline", the list goes on and on...and you avoid those nasty MTV sound booth mess-ups. But even in the US, we only have episodes 1, 2, and 3 on video.

[email] wrote in message ...

show:

because

Well, I won't quote verbatim (perhaps I should log the intros so I can? <g>), but I get the impression that he feels viewers really should have something better to do than spend the next however-many minutes in the company of these "manic depressives" or "miseries!"

At

Well, you *could* stand by the phone yourself, ready to book her into an anxiety clinic! ;-)

A UK Morgendofferphile of longer standing will have to provide the definitive answer to that. I think not.

video?

Campus",

Do I understand this correctly? They air ads *inside* the Daria episode? If so, another plus for c5: the ads are before and after, not during! And they haven't yet, as far as I know, (m)ucked up the sound.

Little hope for us in the UK, then. 8-(

Thanks for your reply!

Martin.

Yes, all of the episodes except "Sealed With A Kick" have been shown in the UK. Although I'm not sure if MTV ever showed "Gifted", in which case they should be showing it for the first time tonight.

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"It [happiness] is only momentary, unless you live your life in a protected bubble, oblivious to pain, disgust, disillusionment, restlessness, loss." - Siouxsie Sioux

Sealed with a Kick is not so much an episode as a pilot. You can see it on some of the videos they release, and on www.daria.org.

Gifted did, in fact, play on MTV

Shadoc64 wrote in article ...

the UK.

should be

Shadoc64 wrote:

They did. I remember that, because it wasn't listed in my TV guide, I put the TV on just in time to see it.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Just by chance I've recorded the intros over the past couple of weeks:

1st November 1998 ("Quinn the Brain")

Introduction: "OK, here's the play. Daria has been usurped by Quinn as the brain of the family. Does this make me better looking than Leonardo di Caprio?"

Voiceover over the closing credits (CHANNEL 5 -DON'T DO THIS!): "Oh dear. There has to be a moral to this story but I for one can't see it. Anyway, if you want to be intellectually challenged again next Sunday, then delightful, delirious, depressive Daria hits 5 again at 11 o'clock".

8th November 1998 ("I don't")

Intro: "Daria. A young lady who would love a stock market crash, playing with venomous snakes and being generally miserable. But now she's set for a happy occasion. Oh dear - something has to give."

Close: "And the little light of Daddy's life dons the depressive cap again next Sunday, at 11, on 5."

I really get the impression the continuity announcer doesn't understand what's going on...

If anyone's interested, I'll keep posting these (if I remember!).

[email] wrote in message ...

Tony, you're a grade one hero!

[...]

Is he getting her mixed up with Wednesday Addams?

That would be a major contribution to Daria ephemera! There's also the trailing intro before the news update...

Martin.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

November 15th 1998 ("That was then, this is Dumb")

Intro: "OK guys - try to imagine your Dad with long hair back in the ... sixties? Liberated, kind of cool and free-thinking. Actually, don't - it might prove a bit depressing".

Still on about depression, I see.

However, nice one Channel 5! They didn't have some continuity announcer wittering away over the closing credits at all, for a change

[email] wrote:

My mother already took me to a therapist. Then she decided I was better (I wasn't) and stopped taking me.

Especially as manic depression only affects 5% of depressives.

I think so. It took ages for them to show The Misery Chick, they'd shown the rest of season 1 but they didn't show that one for months. I don't think it airs them in order, which is confusing. I still haven't seen The New Kid 'cos it's only been aired once and I missed it. :(

I don't think there is one. Nowhere that I've seen, anyway.

Y'knowm this sorta thing really pisses me off, the misuse of these terms... my grandmother is a serious depressive, has been hospitalized a number of times. Has a chemical imbalance, y'know.... so as a freshman, anyhow, we had to do a report on "some sort of tragedy that has happened to someone you know" (it was a weird assignment), anyhow, mine was about Depression, and my stupid asshole teacher said "Well, don't we all suffer from that?". Like she didn't get the difference between being in a bad mood and having a psychiatric disorder.

Dagny

Visit The Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers, and more...

"You got a light, mac?... No, but I got a dark brown overcoat"- Viv Stanshall

Eccles9697 wrote:

Yeah, that's like when I was diagnosed with it last year, one of my friends said, "Oh, you can't be as depressed as anyone in my family, my dad's got arthritis and my mom's really depressed about it." It's different. I may not have ever been seriously depressed or anything, but it's not the same as the feeling you get when something bad happens! You can have, like, the best day ever, and still want to die. Depression isn't the same as having a bad day.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Silly man. He's being sarcastic(thinks: Now where have I heard that before? The initials "D.M" jump to mind for some reason, can't think why...)

Are they? I haven't noticed, and I've watched the MTV Europe and C5 versions about 2, 3... hundred times by now.

Alan

Alan Norman wrote in message ...

Ah, who should I believe?

Shadowcloak wrote:

and >scenes are being cut out.

I *hope* Alan's right: if he is, then my ambivalence is just about dissolved!

Alan wrote:

Well, a sign of hope at least. Thanks, Alan.

Martin.

I can remember several occasions on which lines or scenes have been cut out. In "Road Worrier", when Jane says "The cops did that to you, didn't they? Bastards.", "bastards" was excised. The same with Jake's horror story in "The Teachings Of Don Jake". In "College Bored", the whole frat geek/panties scene was removed. If anybody's taping the C5 showings, look for yourself.

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Oh, no. The toilet is talking to me again." - Jane Lane

"Who do I believe?" I asked.

Shadoc64 wrote in message ...

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Well, I feel that's settled, to my satisfaction at least: c5, it seems, do slice episodes. Shadowcloak and Alli have provided specific examples. To be fair to Alan, he didn't claim they don't, he just said he'd never noticed.

I wrote in message (line spacing condensed)...

Alan wrote in message ...

Fair play. Mocking, trivialising, sarcastic use of medical terms is not the height of responsibility. <g> (Sorry if I misunderstood the point of your remark, Alan! He=me, or He=c5 announcer? Oh, the joys of language!)

Eccles9697 wrote in message ...

and endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Sound! "There's a difference between a bad mood and a psychiatric disorder," and, "Depression isn't the same as having a bad day," would make fine slogans for mental health awareness campaigns! And, at least in the UK, we do need such campaigns to (i) overcome public ignorance about mental illness; (ii) challenge the "Pull yourself together!" response; and (iii) encourage people to seek treatment. Depression is *not* unhappiness by another name, or to a greater degree; it is qualitatively different.

I'm pontificating again... <wry smile>

Alan wrote in message ...

Who'd deny it? (What? Out of what? Con-what? <mumble, mumble>)

Spurred on by Alan's valuable and very welcome info (no, about the video, not about the location of hell), I got in touch with my local Virgin Megastore: "Daria One" (<tremble> does that mean they'll be a "Daria Two"?) can be obtained to order, and it costs UKP8.99. Yes!

They did tell me, "There's only one 'Daria' on the system. It's 'Adult Animation.' Are you sure this is the one you want?" I'm a priest, not a minister (Episode 204 - "I don't" - was on yesterday. I know I've inverted the quotation!).

I'll have to borrow a dark brown overcoat to wear when I go in to place my order. <g>

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

<long words - help!> That's all very true. People still think they're the same thing. They can be similar in effect, but the causes and symptoms are totally different. Last year, when I was taken to a doctor for being constantly tired and run-down and all, I was given this pamphlet-thing with a list of symptoms of depression. My mother read it, and went back and told the doctor, "No, she's fine, she only shows one or two of these, she's not at all depressed, why would she be?" without even asking me how I felt and I guess that shows how most people think you need an actual _reason_ to be depressed.

Enough with the long words! Anything longer than two syllables scares me!

On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:00:56 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

I was in denial of my depression until a few weeks ago when I took a long hard look at my life and realized that I had nothing to be unhappy about. I finally realized I had most of the symptoms but I ignored them, for example I looked at sharp objects and saw them as something I could use to open my viens or to do harm to myself or someone else instead of seeing them as the common everyday tools used to make life easier. Then it dawned on me I've been having these thoughts for years. I've been feeling run-down and out of energy for a long time. I've been filling my life with material objects in an attempt to hide from the feeling of emptyness and hopelessness. I bought myself a new guitar and after i went through the usual steps of setting it up just like I like it and breaking it in I did'nt have the energy or desire to play the thing. I also noticed I did'nt have the creative energy that I used to have, I used to fill up sketch books with drawings, poetry/lyrics, song ideas, comics, flyers for a friends band etc... one day It just stopped. I started to simply go through the motions of everyday life, work-watch TV-sleep 5 days, watch TV-sleep 2 days. Now that I realize there may be something wrong with me I feel better, I can almost face life again.

The worst part, for me, in dealing with this is talking to the people around me about it. Most of the time they dole out nuggets of advise like "don't be depressed" "cheer up" "maybe you need to get out more, get some fresh air, make some friends" and yes I even had to put up with "everybody gets depressed" they think they are helping but they make me feel bad all over again, they just remind me that I dont have many friends, i dont get out enough etc.. It's true, a lot of people are very ignorant about depression and dont know how to react to someone that is depressed and dont realize what they say is doing more harm than good.

Happydude wrote:

That's one of the worst things to realise.

I definitely know that feeling. When I don't want to play my guitar, even, that's when I know I'm ill.

That's a good point, once you realise that you're ill it helps a hell of a lot.

I know exactly what you mean. There are no more painful words in the English language than "cheer up." It's hard, you just know the people that say those things have never seriously thought of suicide or anything like that. They can't understand how much relief you can get from cutting yourself, they just think you want attention or something.

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Perhaps it makes them feel comfortable; perhaps they reach for this attitude to stop them from having to think.

One of the phrases I always challenge is, "Oh, it's just a cry for help." Said in response to news of someone's self-harm (actual or attempted), and said with body language and vocal tone that convey, "No-one needs to pay any attention to it."

I don't hear it so often now (perhaps people know my attitude) but if I do, I respond by asking something like: if you're walking down the street, and see smoke pouring out from a building, and hear someone inside shouting and screaming; or if you're walking past the lake, and see someone thrashing about in the water frantically waving, do you say, "Oh, it's just a cry for help," shrug your shoulders, and walk on?

How can anything be *just* a cry for help?

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Why does everyone have such a big aversion to thinking? It's such an important thing (obviously)!

Well, maybe it is a cry for help. I think it's an unconscious one, though. Noone wants people to find out if they've been doing that sort of thing.

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Didn't express myself well, Alli. A cry for help it may be, conscious or unconscious; or it may not be. It may instead be the only coping mechanism they can come up with at the time: see Happydude's post.

What gets me is the way some people, once they've made up *their* mind that something someone's done is a cry for help, immediately move on to to dismiss that "cry for help" as *just* a cry for help, shrug their shoulders, have a smirk at the poor silly girl/boy, think no more about it. A cry for help, if that's what they've decided it is, deserves a more serious response than that!

I agree, that should be respected. We live in an age when people's private pain is turned into mass-market entertainment: those witless, confrontational studio talk shows that trade on the humiliation of their "guests" remind me of bear-baiting, or the afternoon excursions the wealthy once used to make to see the inmates in Bedlam. In such an age as ours, believing out loud in people's right to privacy and dignity invites derision or at least suspicion ("What's s/he got to hide?").

But there are people who prefer "Daria" to daytime humiliation-fests, so it can't be that bad a world (This remark is a not just an attempt to show I'm on topic <g>). My view: hope outweighs angst, in the long run.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

That's true. It's often hard to find any other way of dealing with problems. I'm sure a lot of people have done that once or twice.

Yeah, noone would cry for help if they didn't need it.

That's sort-of what I meant, yeah. It's like, if someone finds out you've been cutting yourself, they'll laugh or go "That is so gross, you're really weird," when both of those reactions are no doubt going to make you go home and cut yourself some more, or worse, just bottle up whatever feelings you're having and try to carry on, which will probably lead to some kind of nervous breakdown in the long run.

Actually, I find that sort of show rather interesting to watch. Not to look at all the 'fuck-ups' but to look at the people they live around, their friends, families, etc. Most of the time it's painfully obvious why the 'guest' has turned out the way they have. I watch the shows to laugh at the 'normal' people!

Because then they won't always be smiling.

Then they'd be misery chicks.

Dagny

Visit The Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers, and more...

"You got a light, mac?... No, but I got a dark brown overcoat"- Viv Stanshall

Eccles9697 wrote:

I hope not. Then there'd be more than one of me. Oh, wait, there is more than one of me. No, that's still me. Please forgive me, my multiple personality disorder is confusing us again.

Well, there's endless, nameless, and Alli. I count 3 already. Don't you log on as Hinuku on Daria IRC Chats? (I might be thinking of someone else)

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

Kyle wrote:

No, that actually is someone else. Probably. Now I don't even know who's me and who isn't!

confused,

Just kill yourself. The name they put on the tombstone is *definitely* you.

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

you

else)

Kyle wrote:

I'm going to wait for someone to post "Don't encourage her!" on here...

Oh, nobody else around. Well, you probably shouldn't encourage her, or whatever. (Do it! I'd like to, but I've never had the energy.)

"Did you see a sign anywhere saying 'All suicides jump here'?" "Nope." "That's because there wasn't one. Now piss off before I just up and murder you." - DV8

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Oh, no. The toilet is talking to me again." - Jane Lane

Don't encourage her, dammit. A life without Alli would suck.

------ ~your friendly neighborhood po

"He thrust his fists against the posts but insists he sees the ghosts." ~Beastie Boys, from B-Boys Bouillabaisse on Paul's Boutique

Life *with* Alli sucks. Although, admittedly, it sucks to a somewhat lesser degree with her.

CrtoonDude wrote in article ...

*definitely*

On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:16:59 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

True, those were some dark and difficult days. I spent a lot of time with the TV and everything shut off and used the silence to sort out my thoughts. I noticed that I used my TV, computer and stereo to sort of shut my brain off. Once I eliminated that stimuli I regained some focus and i could face the crushing despair and get my head together. I havent seen a doctor, hopefully I wont need to. I'm going to try St. Johns wort first, i've read it's an SSRI like prozac, zoloft and others but without the nasty side effects or stigma. Even if it's a placebo like some people say it's better than doing nothing and ignoring the problem.

Absolutly, it was a huge red flag for me. Music is my life and to get a new guitar and not want to play it was a clear sign that something was'nt right (it's an olympic white 50's reissue Fender Stratocaster BTW. Very playable.) Now that I've cleared my head a bit I cant put it down. I spend a lot of my free time now learning new songs, relearning music theory, and tweaking the settings on my effects and amp. Sunday was a pretty low day for me so I put on a Weezer CD and started playing along and learning some parts that have been giving me trouble, it made me feel better even though i wasn't really in the mood to play when I started. Ive been learning a lot of Hendrix and other blues stuff. Im trying to give up my dependence on sheet music and tablature by learning songs by ear. Music is great medicine.

*snip*

They're always so cheerful when they say that too. They smile awkwardly and say "cheer up" but there eyes say "you're crazy and I want to get away from you as soon as I can. everything you are saying is totally alien to me, you self-absorbed bastard." I've only tried cutting myself once, but I can see what you mean by it being a relief. I took the battery cover off of a remote control and used the sharp edge to put a deep scratch along my forearm that drew blood in a few places. The pain served to turn the mental pain (that I did'nt know how to deal with at the time) into a pain that i could understand. Soon after I realised doing that was a mistake and wasn't the best way to cope. The best way to cope is to pour your heart out in long rambling off-topic posts to a newsgroup full of people you barely know. :)

~*~*~Happydude~*~*~ "Eat me, I'm medicine!"

[email] (Happydude) wrote:

Not meaning to be too off-topic (in atd? never! <g>) but I just recently found a used 96 52-reissue Telecaster m'self, in Sonic Blue. (It had been unsold for over a month because of the color -- their loss, my gain.) Having played just about every brasswind under the sun (Trumpet, Cornet, Flugelhorn, Baritone, Euphonium, Flugabone, Tuba, and Sousaphone), I finally wanted to try an instrument that I can actually compose with, but I absolutely suck at piano. I've been working on the Tele now for a few weeks, and, I've got to say, it's a very sweet instrument, and very therapeutic as well after a long day. I should've done this years ago. But, anyway, I can see what you mean about music being important to you. It's only about as important to me as, oh, say, breathing or eating. Example: I had a problem with one of my eardrums a while back (one ear was hearing everything a quarter tone flat), and until I found out it wasn't anything Modern Medicine couldn't easily fix, I was a bit of a mess. (It's still a little flat, but as long as it's getting better, I can put up with it.)

I guess what I'm getting at is if for some reason I just couldn't get inspired to play music myself, I'd see that as a huge red flag, too.

ramblingly, rich.

Jake: I love camping! I love it! ... Has anybody seen my pants?

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:48:23 GMT, [email] ([email]) wrote:

I just checked out the Fender web site and it seems that your guitar is no longer in production. On top of that I couldn't find any Telecaster that came in Sonic Blue. I could be wrong but sonic blue could be a custom color for that model. That combined with the guitar being out of production could mean you have a rare guitar that can only increase in resale value as it ages. Again I could be wrong you may want to ask Fender about that. A lot of Fenders with custom colors produced in the 50's and 60's go for about $15,000 and up on the vintage market.

*snip*

Im glad to hear it's getting better. Brian Wilson has problems with his ears and he's....well he's Brian Wilson, enough said.

[email] (Happydude) wrote:

Yeah, I've already checked out the Fender site-- this guitar was a 1996 reissue of the 1952 Telecaster, made by Fender in Japan. This particular guitar had the original bridge pickup replaced with a pair of Seymour Duncan humbucker pickups -- I guess the original owner hated the Fender bridge pickup -- I've seen a lot of complaints about it being to "microphone-y," but the sound I get from the SDs is *very* nice. Considering I got it for around $330, I think I got a really good deal. I have to admit that when I picked it up and played it in the store, it was love at first strum. <g> (I had played a little about 10 years ago, but gave up when I got frustrated with a mediocre guitar, an empty wallet, and a lot of trumpet practicing to do and no time for the awful nameless acoustic.)

Yeah. I've always had good relative pitch, though. It's funny, my Mom and I can both sing right on key, but my Dad and Sis can't carry a tune in a bucket. Weird.

rich.

Jane: You know, I don't know why people say we have a bad attitude.

Daria: Screw 'em.

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:50:46 GMT, [email]

A lot of people are quick to put down guitars made overseas, my Stratocaster is from Japan and I find it better than a lot of the american made Strat's. Fender Japan makes a good guitar, the reissues being the best. Your right you got a good deal, I'm guessing it was about $600-$700 brand new. I also find the Japanese pickups a bit weak and im thinking about getting some Texas Specials or something with more of a vintage sound. Those will set me back a little, so im going to wait. IMHO It's worth the money to upgrade from a no-name guitar especially since I spent about 7 or 8 years playing a piece of plywood.

"[email]" wrote:

There is no such thing as 'off-topic' in this group! Everything is on-topic and we can talk freely about our guitars and psychiatric conditions for as long as we like! And there will be no flaming!

Me too. I can play fine until I have to use both hands at the same time. My co-ordination is appalling.

It's kinda strange; I'm quite a musical person (I'm good at math, which apparently helps) but noone suggested I take GCSE in music. I guess that's 'cos I can't read music at all. Or because I tell everyone how Mudhoney are better than the Beatles and talk incessantly about all these unheard-of bands and go on about how the Pixies are the most influencial band ever... this is probably another reason people think I'm mad; such views on music are considered rather unorthodox around here ('here' being a small town in south-east England where people can say "Who the hell is Kurt Cobain?" and be completely serious).

I can see why that would be scary. I have a similar problem with my eyes, one eye sees everything a slightly different colour. That doesn't bother me though. I told someone once, I wouldn't mind too much if I went blind, but I'd kill myself if I went deaf. They thought I was mad. More so than they did before, that is.

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:27:42 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

I too have tried different intruments in the past, namely drums and piano. I found the drums harder than the piano because you not only need both arms but both feet to play a drum set properly, I couldn't cut it. The piano was tricky because of the concentration and coordination. On top of that you need to know how to read music written in both treble and bass clef. Treble clef was ok for me, the bass clef was the one that gave me trouble. The guitar seemed much more natural to me. I still cant sing and play guitar at the same time (and all of god's creatures breath a sigh of relief). BTW check out Moog synthesisers. They're monophonic, meaning you can only play one note at a time, no chords, you only need one finger to play it.

Try being a Pulp fan in America. "Pulp who?"

I'm a bit backwards, I didn't start listening to the Pixies until well after they had broken up and Kim and Frank were off doing new things. I was blown away by the Breeders' "Divine Hammer" and "Canonball" and Frank Black's "Los Angeles" and "Hang on to Your Ego" then a friend let me borow his Pixies CD's, I've been a fan ever since. BTW im not sure if your familiar with the work of Steve Albini, He produced many great albums like; the Pixies Doolittle, Nirvana's In Utero, Belly's Pod (another great band), Pigface's Gub and many others. He's also the singer/guitarist for the 80's punk band Big Black, I'd recomend the album Pigpile (a live CD from the last show did after they broke up) He is currently in a band named Shellac, I havent heard it yet. If I went out and got every album I've been meaning to buy I'd be in debt for years.

*snip* Sorry about the huge snips, my news server will not let me post unless the reply is longer than the message i'm replying too.

I play Bass Guitar, drums, piano, xylophone just off the top of my head, and none of them ever approached the difficulty of piano, IMHO.

Happydude wrote in article ...

Happydude wrote:

I can't read music at all. I just sit there counting what line each note is on. And the sharp, flat and natural signs are just _too_ confusing.

I never had too much difficulty with that, so long as it's just straight forward rhythm playing. I can't play lead and sing. No, make that: I can't play lead, period.

I can imagine! I went into this store to buy this record by Cay (then-unsigned iindie band fronted by "the female Kurt Cobain" according to a local radio station) and I went to order it, and you should have seen the look I got from the cashier! It was like, *blank stare*

Me too. That's probably because I would have been, what? eight years old when they broke up, so I never heard them until Debaser was rereleased last September. Irony of ironies, I heard it on MTV, the _worst_ place you can go for good alternative music. Bringing this post back on topic, I actually first heard it after MTV screwed up an episode of Daria.

I love his stuff. But he's a sexist twat, IMHO. I think you mean Surfer Rosa, by the way.

I've looked for Big Black stuff in both of the two tiny record stores that exist within a ten mile radius of my house, but (surprise surprise) I couldn't find anything. I'll probably look next time I go up to London, which won't be 'til well after Christmas. :(

LOL! I know what you mean. Trying to keep a good record collection on �40 a month is pretty much impossible. I'll get a job, when I can be bothered to.

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:06:30 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

I feel your pain. Q:How do you get a guitarist to stop playing A:put sheet music in front of them It's a stupid old musicians joke, but 99% of all musician jokes are true. Thankfully there is tablature. Even to this day I can't sight read notation. Usually when I try to learn a song from sheet music I convert it into tablature. Even when I do that I start out OK but pretty soon I lose focus and all the lines and dots merge together or start moving around and im back to counting lines and spaces. Ususally I'll find something else to do until I'm ready to go back to it. At least on the piano there is only one middle C, the guitar has 5 differnt ways to play the middle C (B string first fret,G 5th fret,d 10th fret,A 14th fret, and E 20th fret) as a result there can be dozens of ways to play a simple chord. some of the greatest guitarists in the world could'nt read a note, they just played what sounded good. They did'nt know they were playing a Pentatonic Minor this or a Harmonic Major that, they simply found a series of notes that sounded good and played until there fingers bleed (sometimes literally).

We have the beginings of a good band on this newsgroup, your rhythm guitar, my lead, Kyle on the bass or drums or piano or xylophone. Hey we could do Doors covers! :) or we could get Paperpusher to bring his million dollar Tele' for a 3rd guitarist and do Skynard covers (my greatest shame is knowing the opening chords to Freebird)

If you ever get a chance, listen to a song by Jimi Hendrix called "Little Wing" the opening is a very intricate lead but once he starts to sing he starts playing the lead and rhythm at the same time. I will never understand how he could play lead, rhythm and sing at the same time. It took me a week just to learn to play the first 32 seconds of that damn song. The man was a freak of nature (but in a good way).

I got the same reaction a few years ago when I went to buy Bjork's album Debut. they laughed at me too "What's a bork?"

120 minutes used to be good, I wonder what happened? I saw a Kraftwerk video on MTV once, I wonder who slid that one by?

oops, your right, my bad. He also produced the Breeders' Pod, not Belly.

www.cdnow.com has some of there albums, I dont know how much extra they charge for shippng it across the pond.

~*~*~Happydude~*~*~ "I have fancy plans, and pants to match!"

Happydude wrote:

Hehe. How about: Q: How do you tell if the drum riser is level? A: Drool comes out of _both_ sides of the drummers mouth.

There are soo many of these jokes. I know three different ones that start "How many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

<snip>

I have experienced that on occasions!

No. No Doors covers. Not even for a joke!

You've lost me, there. I've never even heard of that.

I know! How did he do it? Anyone?

LOL!

I don't know, but I bet they got fired.

Are you going to do that every time? :)

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

I can't really say for sure, but I do know that the great blues guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan played lead and rhythm at the same time by slamming into all the strings as he played his riffs. Essentially, he muted all other strings but the one he was playing on at the time, but strummed the whole guitar. I have a feeling Stevie got that from Jimi, since he was one of his biggest fans/followers. By the way, Stevie does an awesome rendition of Little Wing. No vocals, which doesn't matter, not with such a cool song.

Cheers

[snip]

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:30:07 -0500, "Lerxst" wrote:

Stevie was incredible, Pride and Joy is a perfect example of what you describe. Much like Jimi's band, Double Trouble was a three piece band so Stevie had to compensate for the lack of a rhythm guitarist, he was the right guy for the job. Watching Stevie and Jimi play is even better than listening to them, they made impossible feats seem effortless. I agree SRV's version of Little Wing was awesome, both versions give me the chills.

Happydude wrote in message ...

Hendrix once said that the world is ful of lead players, but the most essential thing to learn is rhythm.

I agree with him. Interestingly enough, all of my fave guitar players do both lead and rhythm. Not necessarily at the same time though... :)

Do you have the video of the two concerts he did on Austin City Limits? Whoever taped him was brilliant. He got just the right mix of Stevie and the band in, but then would get some shots of Stevie's hands and some closeups of him playing. Of course, its all too fast to figure it out by that..unless you have a way to slow the tape down. :)

Jimmie Vaughan, Stevie's brother, is also a great player. Seen him live once.

By the way, here are my favorite bands...

Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble :) Rush Genesis Pink Floyd ELP Clapton Santana Queen

(Pretty much anything with an awesome guitar player...hehehe. Most of it is progressive rock though. Rush takes the cake as my all-time favorite.)

Cheers

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:21:13 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

I write whatever the voices in my head tell me to write, resistance is futile. They're always telling me to write things I don't want to write, if I refuse they they hit my brain with a monkey wrench. On top of that they hate all the TV shows I like, whenever I try to watch these shows they start screaming and singing Hanson songs until I change the channel.

Happydude wrote:

Ugh! Hey, maybe the voices are Hanson. Just be careful to keep control of yourself next time you go into a record store.

Bite me, I'm bitter!

Sorry. Couldn't resist. I'll go hide in my corner now.

Demeter471 wrote:

You do that! Leave my sig alone! :)

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

~*~*~Kyle~*~*~ "Dear God, I hope it's not pink eye"

On 13 Nov 1998 21:52:31 GMT, "Kyle" wrote:

~*~*~Happydude~*~*~ "rectum, hell it damn near killed him!"

Happydude wrote in message ...

~*~*~Martin~*~*~

Martin Sylvester wrote:

<<MRSA* outbreak. This ward is closed; do not attempt to leave or enter. * Multiple Replicate Signature Attack>>

HA! The good father shows he has a background in health care, too.

KTrick45 wrote in message ...

Rumbled! And the old drummer knows his microbes, too, or he wouldn't have got that one... <g>

Martin.

Happydude wrote:

OK! Enough!

I'm gonna have to change that sig, aren't I?

Please don't. We're just having fun, we really do like it.

~*~*~Kyle~*~*~ "Don't touch me, I'll get sick!"

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

Kyle wrote:

Good! It's from a Mudhoney song, for those who don't know. You should know. You should like Mudhoney! :)

How many of these can you guys come up with? :)

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

A million and 2

~*~*~Kyle~*~*~ "Don't touch me, you sicko!"

And we're just focusing on the sick part. We've resisted the urge to go into "touch me".

Kyle wrote:

Thank God!

I had never heard of the mudhoney's till now, and when I looked up a website on them, all I could say was "Man, they wrote a lot of songs"!

~*~*~Deliverance~*~*~ "Don't touch me you hick!"

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

Alli wrote:

<<Hehe. How about:
     Q: How do you tell if the drum riser is level?
     A: Drool comes out of _both_ sides of the            drummers mouth.
    There are soo many of these jokes. >>

Ya' know, I *knew* this newsgroup would eventually come around to drummer jokes. (Excuse me while I wipe some drool.... There, that's better). Even on the Catholic Music List it eventually comes around to drummer jokes. (Wipes some more drool... not because I'm a drummer, I'm just old. OK, I'm an old drummer).

Never heard "Freebird"? Huh! Kids today! No respect for traditions!

If we are starting a band, I have 1 simple demand.

Instead of actually paying me, we sing "All I Really Want" by Alanis Morrissette once per show and practice.

Happydude wrote in article ...

On 12 Nov 1998 02:49:57 GMT, "Kyle" wrote:

OK, you got it. I'm not a fan of Alanis Morrissette but it's a small price to pay for a quality Xylophone player

Kyle wrote:

No. No no no. No Alanis Morrissette. No Doors, no Alanis, no Skynard. We're doing Kenickie covers or I quit!

What about Sabbath? *IF* you're up to it. ------ ~your friendly neighborhood po

"He thrust his fists against the posts but insists he sees the ghosts." ~Beastie Boys, from B-Boys Bouillabaisse on Paul's Boutique

CrtoonDude wrote:

Sabbath. Hmm. OK. *And* Kenickie!

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:06:32 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Sabbath is fine with me as long as we don't end up doing Iron Man. Since we're picking covers I want to do Negativland's U2 (Special Edit Radio Mix) (the only place to hear is at http://www.negativland.com/2-28.ram or on a bootleg) or Car Bomb. - Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

Why no Iron Man? Well, I guess that's ok as long as you do Crazy Train. ------ ~your friendly neighborhood po

"He thrust his fists against the posts but insists he sees the ghosts." ~Beastie Boys, from B-Boys Bouillabaisse on Paul's Boutique

On 13 Nov 1998 22:27:43 GMT, [email] (CrtoonDude) wrote:

Crazy Train is fine, I like Suicide Solution myself. We could also do Judas Priest's Better By You, Better Than Me, that's the one that says "do it, do it, do it" if you play it backwards

- Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

Happydude wrote:

And done originally (and better) by Spooky Tooth (Gary Wright, of "Dream Weaver" fame, was in this band). No idea of it says "do it" backwards, but then, I think that preacher who claimed backwards messages in the Priest version was, frankly, nuts. Isn't it the same guy who claimed there were evil, Satanic messages in the theme tune to "Mr. Ed" if you played it backwards? Hell, there evil, Satanic messages in "Mr. Ed" if you just watch the damn thing--forwards! A talking horse is just plain wrong! Avert!

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria

N.P.:"Boo Boo's Faux Pas"- R u p e r t H i n e / P i c k u p a b o n e

If I recall, the Bible has a talking donkey.

Progbear wrote in article ...

"Dream

but

evil,

backwards?

--Daria

e

Kyle wrote:

Have you ever actually read "Revelations"? There's some freaky-ass sh&* in there! Talking donkeys, hell, there's the Four Horsemen, angels blowing the trupmets of death, the lake of fire, and a seven-eyed, seven horned lamb. WHo needs the Necronomicon when you have this? %-{)>

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:"Vivre la mort"- P o l l e n

I have spent weeks in classes exploring many different books of the Bible, including Revelation.

Most of it you could make an argument that it is metaphorical (which I don't think it is).

The talking donkey, however, is much earlier in the Bible, when a man named Balaam tries to ignore Angels God placed in the road to stop him, and his donkey talks some sense into him.

Progbear wrote in article ...

sh&* in

the

WHo

Peacock

Kyle wrote:

Angels. Talking donkeys. Interesting...

It's a well known fact that, at the time that story about the donkey shows up, LSD was *very* popular. . . .

-Kazul

On 15 Nov 1998 18:52:31 GMT, [email] (SDROTH) wrote:

I saw a book a few weeks ago called Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. I havent had the chance to read it yet but judging by the liner notes the book claims that a lot of passages in the Bible were influenced by mushroom induced hallucinations.

- Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

SDROTH wrote:

Wouldn't acid be a sin like drinking and gambling and stuff? Speaking of which, I was supposed to go to a friend's baptism this morning, but I overslept. As usual.

Alli wrote in message ...

Well, the Bible's not short of sins (not that responsible drinking and moderate gambling *are* sins anyway - pour me another drink while I count these raffle tickets!).

Hope the friend's the understanding type.

Martin.

Oh, the Bible's full of stuff that you'd think would get Christians mad, like girls getting their father drunk and having sex with him... really too bad no one reads it.

Dagny

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers and More!

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

Yeah, the Bible's been banned in several state libraries several times. All i can say is, King David did some *FREAKY* stuff...

In article ,

My favorite one is Ehud, found in Judges 3, I believe. Look it up, it's great.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Yeah, me too...I should have asked Wendy and Karen (yes, I have more than one friend!) if they went, I saw both of them today, but I forgot. I got up too early today. My brain hasn't started working yet.

I knew it! You *do* have friends! You couldn't hide it from us forever.

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

Kyle wrote:

Damn! My secret is out! Now I'll have to go into exhile in Peru until I live down the shame. Or something like that, anyway. I'm still recovering from the effects of getting up before 3pm, as you can see.

Progbear wrote:

Drug references, if you ask me. Tsk.

Happydude wrote:

Yeah! That sounds cool. I think we should do Bis covers, actually: "Sugar, sugar! Kandypop! Push it down and pull it up!"

Or, as I said, Kenickie: "Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah! Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah!"

Or maybe Nirvana: "I'm a negative creep! I'm a negative creep! I'm a negative creep!"

On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:09:10 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

We're all going to have to learn a lot of songs. How about some Pixies and Big Black too. I know Debaser, it's fairly easy. Nirvana is very playable, mudhoney too.

Big Black: Kerosene

I was born in this town, live here my whole life Probably come to die in this town, live here my whole life Never anything to do in this town, live here my whole life Nothing to do, Sit around at home, stare at the walls look at each other and wait till we die There's Kerosene around, we'll find something to do Kerosene around, set me on fire Set me on fire, Kerosene Set me on fire, Kerosene Set me on fire, Kerosene Set me on fire, Kerosene Set me on fire

How's that for uplifting life-affirming lyrics? Big Black is easy to play, just power chords, string grinding, tons of distortion, and feedback.

- Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

Happydude wrote:

Yay! But we *have* to play some Kenickie!

<snip lyrics>

Power chords, string grinding, distortion and feedback are what music is all about, IMHO.

Happydude wrote in message ...

[snip]

Well, hey, as long as we are posting lyrics...here are some. Not exactly so...errr...depressing :), but still cool.

Subdivisions by Rush

Sprawling on the fringes of the city In geometric order An insulated border In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown

Growing up it all seems so one-sided Opinions all provided The future predecided Detached and subdivided In the mass production zone

Nowhere is the dreamer Or the misfit so alone

Subdivisions- In the high school halls In the shopping malls Conform or be cast out Subdivisions- In the basement bars In the backs of cars Be cool or be cast out Any escape might help to smooth The unattractive truth But the suburbs have no charms to soothe The restless dreams of youth

Drawn like moths we drift into the city The timeless old attraction Cruising for the action Lit up like a firefly Just to feel the living night

Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight

Somewhere out of a memory Of lighted streets on quiet nights...

you guys are gonna have to teach me this stuff, but I'm willing to learn.

Any thoughts on a band name?

Happydude wrote in article ...

On 13 Nov 1998 22:49:36 GMT, "Kyle" wrote:

how about Snoopy's Tapeworm. It may cause legal problems but it has a nice ring to it.

- Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

How about "Daria Death Cult"?

(BTW, I'm in if we can do Siouxsie and the Banshees' "Christine" once a session.)

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Oh, no. The toilet is talking to me again." - Jane Lane

Shadoc64 wrote:

Sounds cool. I don't know it, but it's Siouxsie.

<A bunch of stuff on what to play has been *snipped*>

I'll sing if we can do Weird Al's parody of "Smells Like Teen Spirit," although come to think of it it might sound a lil' odd in a female voice...

Band name: Silly Little Self-deluded Girl/Boy/Dragon/Other

Trust me, it's the best song ever written about a schizophrenic girl.

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Oh, no. The toilet is talking to me again." - Jane Lane

Kyle wrote in message ...

Got to be "Esteemsters."

And every gig starts in total darkness. The tension mounts: when will they start? Then the venue resounds to <on tape> "I don't have low self esteem..."; followed by the lights slammed full up as a crashing guitar chord (Yep, and something loud on the drums from KTrick45) shatters the silence and begins the first song...

Or else you're still looking for a manager. You'd decided that already? Oh.

Martin.

On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:39:40 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

That's a good plan. I think in mid-set we could sample some of Upchuck's minstrals put them on a loop and mix in Jane's Line about frying his tounge on a stick. Throw some drum machine loops and call it an extended dance mix. we could also get a screen put up and play the scene from Fair Enough, maybe upside down and backwards. We could try some less traditional instruments; Theremins, Moog synthesizers, sitars, jackhammers, stuff like that

- Shop as usual...and avoid panic buying. -Negativland

[email] (Happydude) wrote:

The weirdest instrument I ever saw was at a drum corps competition-- somebody was banging away on an old rusty brake drum on the sidelines in the percussion pit. It actually sounded kinda cool, but it only played the one note, and no matter how much the guy playing it practiced, it would always sound rusty. <g>

rich.

"Stop the bus! Stop the bus!" -- Chester

<A collective groan goes up from the newsgroup>

How about a trouser press? Or a leg? Or a humanoid? How about tap dancing? And explosions... wait, that's the Bonzos, never mind

Dagny

Visit The Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers, and more...

"You got a light, mac?... No, but I got a dark brown overcoat"- Viv Stanshall

Umm, would throwing dinner plates against the wall work?

-Kazul

Martin Sylvester wrote:

...or better yet, "I can hope and I can dream and I am full of... ...full of... ...full of self esteem!"

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:nothing

Progbear wrote in message ...

<Chuckle>

I can't see the band wanting to do a cover of *that* record!

Martin

Martin Sylvester wrote:

It'd be an irony thing. But I still think we should do Kenickie covers. :)

Alli aka endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Hmmm. Another band name there. Irony Maiden, anyone?

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Hmm. Yeah, that'd work.

Kyle wrote:

My, this could get interesting....

You can play whatever you want 99% of the time? I just ask for this one simple song. I can't stand her voice, but I love the lyrics to that song.

If it's too big of a deal, I can downgrade to "Concrete" by Plumb, which has awesome lyrics and pretty great guitar chords.

endless, nameless wrote in article ...

Kyle wrote:

Hmm. I'll think about it...

Happydude wrote:

Anti-depressants aren't always a very good idea. I went to this hypno-therapist guy and that worked quite well. The problem with drugs is that they can totally ruin your life, my grandmother was addicted to Valium for years. But if you don't think anything nasty'll happen then it's infinitely better than sitting around doing nothing.

Totally. I bought a guitar right earlier this year; a rather crappy acoustic, but I'm getting a Squier Telecaster for my birthday (only one more month - yay!) and a reasonable size amp which should make sufficient noise to let everybody in my neighbourhood know just how bad a guitarist I actually am!

They can't understand why anyone would have a different way of responding to the world, 'cos they're perfect, right?

LOL! Works for me! It's much harder to talk to people you have to face everyday. If you know them, they'll just tell everyone how weird you are.

I'm not really sure what to say to that!

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:17:21 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Excelent choice, Squiers are great guitars for the price. Since Squier is a Fender company no one can call your guitar a Telecaster knock-off either. It is a Telecaster, end of story. The only reason they are called Squier is because Fender doesn't want their name assosiated with low-priced instruments aimed at beginer and intremediate players. They can also keep the Fender prices higher that way, even though the guitars are the same quality. When I stared playing the only guitars in the Squier price range were awful. Mine was a Stratocaster knock-off with only one pickup and a volume control. the body was made out of plywood that absorbed all the tone. Your Tele on the other hand has a body made of alder, a good tone wood. The only problem you may possibly have is with the electronics or the tuners, you wont have to worry about that for a few years unless you really abuse them.

As far as the quality of your playing, practice practice practice. You obviously have the desire and dedication needed to improve your skills. I've seen too many people start playing, learn a few songs, get bored and never play again. Sometimes you have to listen to yourself play, really listen, then you'll realise your much better than you were a week/month/year ago. If you really want to bug your neighbors with your new toys, let me know, I'll tell you about distortion and the fine art of feedback. :)

Sorry about that, I could'nt resist.

Happydude wrote:

Aah, now this sounds interesting. I 'tested' the guitar after getting it home (ie, spent several hours fiddling with the amp settings and making a god-awful noise) but I didn't quite have the nerve to try playing feedback for too long as that would have resulted in instant confiscation of the guitar, but I played around with the distortion until I was sure I'd shattered all the windows within the immediate vicinity of my house.

You should keep that as your sig, you know. Although noone will get it after the next time I change my sig. But nevermind.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

They do cut bits out. When they aired The Invitation, they cut out part of the scene where Daria tells Jane about Brittany's party. It sounded really odd.

Alan Norman wrote:

Alan Norman wrote:

And again!

And where the HELL is "University of Middlesex"? All the signs, books, letters, et al say "Middlesex University".

Just found a message on my answering machine from my local Virgin (Perhaps I ought to write, "From a member of staff at my local branch of Virgin Retail"?) to say, "The video you ordered on Monday has arrived."

Unfortunately she didn't say which of the two videos I ordered on Monday it is. Jacques Tati's _Jour de Fete_, or MTV's _Daria One_?

Will I sleep tonight? <g>

Martin.

I wrote in message ...

I

It was the Jacques Tati one. So, still waiting for the first UK Daria video...

Martin.