What were your thoughts on the s4 season premiere? I thought it was nice how they carried over the hostility Daria felt about the Jane-Tom relationship instead of neatly sewing it up for the sake of the usual 30-minute problem solver. Also, more was revealed about how Daria views the world in black & white...she DOES tend to do that...and yeah, it may be wrong to do what Jodie did and use a familial or other personal connection in order to secure something, but in this world you can't survive on idealism. I see Brittany's trying to be as intelligent as she can be...and while she does have more active brain matter than Kevin, that's not saying a whole lot...and speaking of Brittany, did anyone get totally grossed out by Wally the used car salesman's pickup tactics? It was highly unsettling. Um...that's all I can think about right now...the newness of the ep is still fresh in my mind and so I'm still trying to digest it all...oh yeah, and I thought that was a good economics project...what we had to do in economics class project-wise was a LOT more boring (we had to look up all manner of economic things about a particular country in groups of four...my group did France, I think).
"Lady Interference" wrote in message news:[email]...
Well you're certainly prompt at posting about it, aren't you? <G>
views
I don't think Daria really views things in b&w. She has strong ethical opinions which she conforms to flexibly. This does present interesting ethical questions that perhaps everyone ought to give some thought.
Yeah, it happens. There are people who are going to discriminate for or against you for any of a plethora of reasons, not necessarily the usual ones. You just have to learn how to make the best of it.
There was a theme here: Jodie was taking advantage of her family connections to secure the loan. Brittany, perhaps without knowing it, was taking advantage of her physical attributes to get a deal on the car. Kevin was taking advantage of the fact that he and/or his family was flush enough with cash to make a cash deal on the car. Everyone has advantages and burdens, the trick is in figuring out which those are and how to play them to best advantage. The question is: is it unethical to use an advantage?
What's perhaps more interesting is that Brittany wants to be perceived as intelligent. They've hit this theme several times.
It happens all the time.
When I was in school they didn't even teach economics.
That's a good point. I'd say "no", but Daria's a *lot* more idealistic than I am.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Is it just me or does anyone else have this empty cheated feeling? There was no Daria Day, No mini marathon before the ep. It was all over so fast I feel very used. Not that im saying the episode wasn't good im just saying that Mtv owes us a heck of alot more then wam bam thank you no get out of our way so we can bring you more Nsync. Or maybe its just the fact that I had to watch five minutes of that crappy 2gether tv movie while waiting. Ok enough whining.
It was good to see Tom back. Hes an interesting character and it would be nice to get a look into his personality before he gets booted.
Wally *shudders does a Tiffany impression* "ewww that is just so wrong" Is it just me or does the show focus a bit to much on Kevin and Brittany for side characters? Every time they show some one out side of Daria and Jane its Kevin and Brittany or the Fashion club. Cant they develop some of the other characters more? It would be nice to see more of Mack and his interaction with Jodie. How about some Mystic Spiral but not so heavy on the Trent. (not that hes a bad thing). I want to see Andrea make Mr Oneil cry. I want to some other faculty member there has to be more Janes got a math teacher right?
But other then that any catch the ending credits Trent as Daria thats priceless.
Cosmo Newanda Hey, why am I the only one here with no clothes on?
I'm pretty sure the "unsettling-ness" of the Wally character was deliberate. You know, to show us all that adult men lusting after teenage girls really *is* creepy. As if we needed any proof. (I guess it was decided that some of us needed a reminder, after all this damned Britney Spears Mania. I'm getting nauseous just thinking of it.)
I loved that, but I still think the apex of hilarious had to be Mr.
DeMartino as Divine. I didn't think I'd ever stop laughing! BTW...what happened
to your punctuation? It seemed to disintegrate near the end of your post.
(Note: this isn't ridicule, it's genuine concern. ;-{)> )
Oh, and I noticed that Mack has a different voice yet *again*.
Fortunately, it's closer to the original Mack voice, and not like the creepy
Kermit The Frog voice from Season 2.
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock
N.P.:"Streaming"- H o e l d e r l i n / L i v e -- T r a u m s t a d t
Have they actually changed the actor, or just the voicing technique?
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
speaking of voices (sorry if this has been mentioned before) on the 'Behind the Scenes' thing they showed that the girl doing the Jane, Quinn, Helen voices was a chick named Hannah. Not Wendy Hoopes. What was that about?
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 19:17:31 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:
It's called "trying to fix the barn door after the horses have already escaped." Wendy Hoopes is still doing the voices, as witnessed by the cast list in "Partner's Complaint." I think it was MTV's lame attempt to protect Ms. Hoopes' identity... which, if they'd even given a seconds' thought about it, they should've known was a too little, too late gesture. :-)
Martin
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On 26 Feb 2000 16:05:03 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
New actor. Seasons one and two had Paul Williams, season three had Kevin Daniels, Jr., and season four has Amir Williams. The big question: Since the original and current Mack voices are so similar, are Amir and Paul the same person, or are they related to each other (brothers, perhaps)? The search continues...
Martin
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The plot thickens and grows obese when you consider that one of the "Whassup?" guys from the Budweiser commercial is named Paul Williams and his normal speaking voice sounds a hell of a lot like Mack. He was on the KTLA Morning News a few days ago.
Perhaps we are dealing with brothers here. Or if Amir and Paul Williams are the same guy, it prolly has to do with the fact that there is an older, whiter, and shorter actor/songwriter who has the same name and who does a considerable amount of voice-over acting, and prolly kicked up a stink about someone else having the same name as he.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:55:24 -0800, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:
Those are the two that seem most likely in my mind. In any case, I've decided to list Paul and Amir separately on the Voice Actors list on OD until we get some kind of confirmation one way or another.
Martin
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My fave was Jane in that purple superhero get up. I think that was supposed I think she was supposed to be Star Sapphire from Green Lantern. FYI, Star Sapphire is a villain. ;) Make of that what you will.
Actualy I got a kick out of 2ge+her. Didn't watch the whole movie, but anything that makes fun of boy bands is fine with me :) Gotta love the lyrics to those songs...
Well, the animation looked a little different.A little more jerky,I
think.They might be trying out new techniques.We'll see how it works next week.
I'm going to have to watch this again to get the nuances,but my initial
impressions are pretty good.They brought the supporting cast more into the
action.I liked that Jodie and Mack had stuff to do instead of saying a couple
lines and leaving. As for Daria she is growing up,it seems.I mean the last time
we saw a heart to heart with Helen was the end of the second season.I hope we
see more of it.
Did you catch what Trent said when he saw Brittany? Wow! Haven't seen much of
a reaction from him before.
I think that this episode showed that Jodie really is Daria's friends, if we needed more proof.
Yeah ... I want to find out what her story really is.
She can't return to being a total loner, having tasted friendship.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
"Kyle" wrote in message news:8994em$pm1$[email]...
Not howls of protest, but simply not true in every case. If social contact means enjoying the company of friends who like and respect you then social contact is probably good. If social contact means what it did to me, being forced to endure the abuse of people who seemed to hate me for being different, then I'd say that social contact sucks. I'd rather be alone in that case. Daria isn't going to be able to make friends with just anyone. She's endured her share of abuse and having to spend time with some of the denizens of Lawndale High would be torture anyway to someone like Daria. Solitude has its merits.
On 26 Feb 2000 18:01:58 GMT, herecomethehawks@hockeymail.....com (Kyle) wrote:
No protest from this corner. The human being is a social animal who needs contact with others of his kind to remain sane. I'm sure there have been studies done to analyze the effects that a lack of social interaction has on a person, and I'll bet it's not pretty.
Martin
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Heck, I'd rather ram myself over the head with a tire iron multiple times than spend any length of time with 75% of the callers we get at my job...and solace and solitude IS a really good thing...but eventually, like any human being, I'd want some human interaction...whether it be posting on newsgroups and other forums online or talking to someone on the phone whom I don't mind talking with, or some other form of human interaction. It's a part of our makeup. Doesn't have to be all the time, or with everyone. At least that's what I think.
eventually. But I don't put every bit of my worth as a person into what other people think of me, how many friends I have, etc. Having GOOD friends beats not having any, but solitude beats hanging out with idiots. I think I'd be as likely to go insane from lack of solitude than from lack of companionship
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
Makes sense to prefer quality to quantity-- I agree. I have a number of friends, but each one of them are the kind of folks who'd get me out of a jam, like, say, my car broke down 80 miles away. They're the kind of folks who'd make sure to call me on my cell phone and make a few smartass remarks. ;-) That's why I have AAA.
Seriously, though, I agree-- I NEED my solitude. So does my GF-- it makes our lives a lot easier, because there are days when we are together, and days we have to go and do our own stuff-- I do my glassblowing and ceramics, she works with predatory cats. Hey, everyone's gotta have a hobby, if only to help us get away from the teeming hordes of humanity.
But, yeah, solitude beats idjits ev'ry day.
rich.
Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!
A fanatical perfectionist would focus on Jane and Jodie's flaws and see them as "pathetic". A more balanced view would show both of them to be flawed, yet very good, people.
If we demand perfection from our friends, we will find ourselves eternally alone. No real people are perfect; those whom you think are perfect are simply those whose flaws you are choosing to overlook. Better to be realistic about people than to superimpose perfect holograms over their less-than-perfect selves. Else one fails to grasp the difference between those who are slightly flawed but good, and those who are deeply flawed, and evil.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
And more complex stuff than the cliche "Jodie and Mack hang out, Jodie does school spirit stuff, Mack does football team stuff". Yeah.
Daria's starting to realize that she isn't perfect, and that Helen really does have wisdom to impart. That's a sign that she's really maturing into an adult.
Heh ... well keep in mind that he *expected* to see Daria. It's probably a good thing that Daria didn't get to see that doubletake, hee hee hee :D
(And before people attack Trent for this, let me assure you that his was a *perfectly* normal male reaction!)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Yeah, I really liked that. You know, the more I think about it Jake and Helan really are pretty good parents. The Lanes pretty much let their kids raise themselves, the Landons put loads of pressure on Jodie, Sandi's folks are like something out of "Dynasty" Brittney's dad married a bimbo ect.
Helan and Jake aren't perfect, but they do take a genuine interest in their kid's lives.
Both of them genuinely love their children. Helen is more competent at showing it than Jake, but you can see it from Jake too.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Helen has really tried and succeded occasionally in getting through to Daria and Quinn, Jake's bright parenting spots are few and far between, yet despite this they both really care for their children, as any parent should do. It's just how they show it that's different from most parents.
Brittany's physically beautiful, on a very simple level that has nothing to do with her personality. She's also mostly a nice person, so anyone noticing her personality would find her even more attractive. I would suspect that Trent, in that instant of confusion, was merely noting that she's a babe, though.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Yeah, I loathe saying it, that was actually a bit disturbing for me. I didn't notice as many facial expressions on Daria as in last season either. The most expressive face movements I saw was...Brittany's. Tom looked a bit different as well. A little more handsome I think.
Yeah, what was that though? Was that a "whoa she's hot" or a "whoa there's a cheerleader in Jane's room" I barely caught it.
I think this one was very serious and deeper than usual. They used a lot of different more striking situations than we're used to seeing (Wally, racism) on this show, and blended them into showing us a main theme. "It really makes you think" I was expecting a bit more humor, they had a few great one liners in there, and I swear, those alteregos made up for alot of it. I want the Fashion Club totem pole, Jamie Jeffy and Joey as the "see no evil..." monkeys, and Trent as Daria. Pure gold.
Trent probably got a lousy set of tires from Happy Herb:-) and upon finding out about this project let Jane know to avoid Herb. Then again there's Wally. Hope no one ever has to buy a car in Lawndale:-)
Both, coupled with "whoa, Jane has *another* friend".
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Well, up until recently it was Monique. And we know he likes Daria.
As for his reaction to Brittany ... hey, any guy would have had that reaction to her unexpected presence.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
It's really nasty, and seriously twists the characters. Only read it if you can stomach a callous and uncaring Trent, cruel and somewhat slutty Jane, and totally whiny and pathetic Daria.
The IVG, or one of her friends (I forget which) did a (funny) Trent - Jesse slashfic, I think it was called "Good Weird / Bad Weird". (It's also a PG-rated sex story). One of the friends of the IVG did a (PG-rated) Daria and Trent shippper sex story called "The Syrup Saga".
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Oh, it was funny. My problem with it wasn't that it was anti-shipper, but rather that it twisted the characters in ways that I'm not totally sure were meant to be parodies.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
When I read that story I felt like I'd accidentally wandered off into the realm of Duran fan fiction, where there are slash fics galore...Nick and John, Simon and John, Simon and Warren...and usually it's always "one character's the weak one, another character tries to comfort the weak one and ends up sleeping with him"...that sort of thing also exists in slash fics connected to "Velvet Goldmine" (then again *that* movie you'd *expect* slash from).
my thoughts? i wonder if quinn is going to ditch the smiley face t-shirt and opt for the three quarter-sleeved pink one with the butterfly she wore in this ep.
Daria is still coming to terms with this new era of her friendship with Jane, and it's obvious she's still not very high on the 2 of them together (Jane and Tom), but she is trying and she gets points for that. It may take all season for her to fully accept Jane and Tom together but I believe she will, what will be most interesting will be what she does to get by in the meantime, she's going to have to open up more to other people, as we saw with her conversation with Helen, who was ready to leave but Daria actually wanted her to stay. Haven't seen her open up to an immediate family member since "Write Where it Hurts" As someone else said she is growing up, and opening up, though slowly, which is a good sign hopefully of things to come.
Also, more was revealed about how Daria views
Thats a lot of what the show is about, Daria learning that there is more to a situation that a black area and a white area, and dealing with things in that grey area. It also depends on your POV, was Jodie wrong for what she did or was the first banker wrong in his approach to Jodie and Daria's proposal, you either try to find someone as ethical as you, or give in and use whatever means necessary to get the job done.
I see Brittany's trying to be as intelligent as
Brittany obviously won this battle, and she is smarter than everyone realizes, using her "assets" :-) she was able to get the better deal than with what Jane was trying to do. Notice Wally completely ignored her just about the entire time. Though Wally is on the lower end of the male gender scale. And Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, he actually bought the car even though Mrs. Bennett specifically said not to complete the transactions, no doubt who won this one.
Only other things, I liked the new commercial bumpers, instead of just one or two scenes, we see many of the shots of that segment, which is cool. The animation was different as well. They were trying to make the characters appear to move more normally than before, it may be just me but were they trying to make everything seem more 3-dimensional than in seasons past? Instead it seemed a bit jumpy and lightly disjointed, not bad but will take some getting used to this style. Lastly, was it me or did the ep flow much faster than usual? Everything seemed to move a bit quicker than normal for me from seasons past.
My jury will be out on Quinn's new outfit until we see if this is a permanent change, or just a one ep.thing.
The Trent as Daria alter ego, LOL! Does this tell anything at all into that, probably not, but it was still cool!
All in all, a very good, although not an A level ep. I'd give it a B+, to borrow Mike Quinn's grading system (not steal it).
He who is just very happy the new season has started and will stop rambling on now,
Oh, *far* worse than that. He wound up losing his deposit *without* getting the car!!!
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
She seemed incredibly depressed, and it wasn't even looked at "lightly" like her talking to herself in "See Jane Run".
Maybe idealism is more important than surviving. (hah... Ms. Walker had up on her little quote ofthe day "Some people have tact, others tell the truth"). I mean, look at it: Jodie really sacrifices everything to look good (mostly to college admissions boards, I guess). She praises a guy she thinks is an asshole (in "The Misery Chick"), and here she does this-- just for a good grade on an assignment.
Daria, on the other hand, doesn't think she needs to do all those things to survive. She doesn't care about her grades that much, and she's certainly not trying to impress admissions boards with extracurriculars. She'll get into a college based on her accomplishments within a harsh system that she made while not sacrificing any of her morals. That should be a greater accomplishment, shouldn't it?
Jodie is setting herself up for a lifetime full of other people's priorities which will, eventually, snap on her, and she'll be the bitchy lady at the Drive Thru, mad about her life but yelling about a cheeseburger. The failure of the American Dream is nowhere clearer than there. Daria may be depressed now, but she's living on her own terms. She may not have as many ready scapegoats, but she's on the only way to any fulfilling success, that which comes from good, and the only real happiness, that comes from herself.
And what Jodie did WAS wrong, not just because she said who her father was, but because she called the other guy a "hypocrite" (and even a racist, which is doubtful. maybe he assumed Daria had the money because Jodie was doing the work, and that's what she was there for?) and she calls this guy a hypocrite for only giving her a loan based on who her father is and then she does that very thing. THAT is being a hypocrite.
That was disturbing. I kept expecting more to happen, you know, like he was hinting, maybe a close call. I don't know, I think they didn't carry through with that because that would be just waaay too disturbing.
Well it beats our Economics projects, which all dealt with how evil Chinese people want to steal your liver and your kidneys, and the college basketball tournament. It's still kind of lame. I hate group projects in general, though. I always end up doing all the work or getting stuck on the periphery doing none of the work.
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
On 26 Feb 2000 14:09:28 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
I think Daria was upset that Jane was spending all that time with Tom, and at the same time, upset that she was upset because she knew better. She's still getting used to the idea of Jane spending time with someone else, and she's understandably depressed about it. It was a good thing that Jane recognized this and came around to make amends at the end.
Definitely. A person does not have to sacrifice one's principles to get along in this world. It may be tougher, and a lot more trying on one's life, but it can be done. As long as she's true to herself, she'll be fine.
To tell you the truth, I was surprised by Jodie. She has always struck me as a bright girl, with strong ethics similar to Daria's. In fact, I had always thought she was a Daria clone with the exception of highly evolved social skills. Being nice to a jerk football player can be construed as merely having tact and courtesy, which isn't really a bad thing. I'm sure I would have done the same in her shoes, being the meek person that I am.
However, her actions with the bankers were entirely hypocritical. If she wanted so much for people to treat her according to her own merit, why did she bring out the heritage card with the second banker? It seems like a sudden lapse of ethics within just a few minutes. From the actions of the first banker, I wouldn't say he was a racist. I would say he's simply susceptible to racial stereotypes - which is a problem of ignorance not outright contempt.
I do think that she was honest in recognizing the fact that she did act in an unethical manner. She was angry about having her flaws pointed out, but she did admit to it. She realized that she acted unethically, and that she didn't take the moral high road like she would've liked to. Her desire for a successful assignment overrided that. Would this assignment have been successful if she *didn't* tell everyone her father was Andrew Landon? I really don't know. But she made her choice, and she *did* admit to being hypocritical. At least she realized it - and that's fine with me.
As an example, being a publisher or an editor can sometimes mean having to be hypocritical almost all the time. He or she may have very strong principles against the advertisement of cigarettes - but more often than not, the publishing company would be bankrupt without the advertising revenue that they generate. To survive, he or she has to sell out. It's sad, but idealism does take a back seat in the real world. In this sense, we could say that Jodie is far more of a realist than Daria is. And in this sense, we could also say that Jodie is far more cynical than Daria as well. Cynics are rarely idealists.
I kept on thinking that Brittany might actually be silly enough to believe the guy and be taken in by him. It was a good thing that they didn't let her do that.. it would've just been.. well.. icky.
Cheers, Nicole Lee
Daria Code: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313 BB- FCD +DT q fN
Bingo! That's exactly why she felt she needed to talk to her mom about this ... for once she didn't feel she was in the right.
I do think that Jodie has both strong ethics and strong morals. I just think they aren't as inflexible as Daria's.
She's her own person. Her great inner conflict is the clash between her desire to relax and enjoy life, and the pressure from her family to be the "perfect black girl".
Deep down? I think a combination between her desire to succeed at the assigned task, and the need to show to herself that she was an accepted and indeed desired person. Jodie took the rejection from the first banker *personally*, even though he switched gears when he found out who she was.
I'm not even sure that he asked about Daria's dad first because of racial stereotypes. He had to ask *someone* first, after all ... and his motives for asking Daria first were murky. It's possible that he did so because she was white ... or because she seemed more reserved ... or simply because he habitually starts from one side first. Who knows? Jodie *did* overreact.
I think that Daria and Jodie both learned from each other this episode. Daria learned that she's sometimes too harshly rigid in her morals, and Jodie learned that she's sometimes too willing to compromise them for trivial gain.
Exactly. And Daria is going to have to deal with this in *any* chosen profession.
Indeed. I'll also note that Jodie is both ethical and moral by most standards. She just isn't *perfect*. Nobody is.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
I've been lurking here for a while, and I figure it's time to come out of the shadows and post something.
Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
How about Helen's morals? I was a bit surprised at "It's unethical, immoral it may well be illegal... OK, I'll do it." I figured that lawyer Helen wouldn't hold very strong to her eithical beliefs, but I had no idea she'd just pass them up that easily.
I didn't notice any racism in his comments until Jodie responded. She must get it from her mother.
Brittany's actions in this episode must also be a result of her upbringing. I'm sure that seeing her stepmom use her body to gain material things made an impression and impacted her dealings with Wally.
I also think that Brittany is a lot more intelligent than most people would believe. She's probably just been held back because she had the idea in her head that women aren't supposed to be smart early on in life and is having a tough time getting it out. Brittany has shown flashes of possesing a high level of intelligence (paintball strategy, playing off Kevin's stupidity in "Fair Enough")
Helen cares about her career and her family first. Everything else comes second to her. She's been burned by ideology before, and she doesn't really want to believe in anything impersonal that strongly ever again.
She definitely overreacted.
Yep.
What's worse, think about how Brittany must have reacted to seeing her mom be replaced by her stepmom. What lessons did she learn from this? "Honesty and decency counts for nothing, being cute and lusted after counts for everything". Frankly, it says something very *good* about Brittany's innate character that she isn't a LOT worse than she is.
head
I agree.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Yes, but maybe this sort of thing has happened to her before, and maybe these things were more clearly racist. If so, she's probably hyperdefensive to it, as her mom is, and she's starting to interpret things as racist at the first red flag. (Here, being ignored in favor of her white partner.)
would
in her
a tough
During the first season, I commented to my roommate that Brittany was probably smarter than Kevin, and his basic reaction was "You're kidding, right?" (I can't remember if I used "Misery Chick" or "Malled" as evidence. "Misery Chick" is better, since "Malled" only shows Brittany has better morals than Kevin.) I don't know if he still watches the show now, but I think this episode took away the last shred of ambiguity about it.
In "See Jane Run", Jane was merely interested in the running guy. It must be obvious to Daria now that Jane is really falling in love with Tom. Furthermore, Tom is genuinely admirable; Daria was *trying* to be critical of him and the most she could come up with was that he goes to a "prep" school. I think that what really depresses Daria is what her hostility towards Tom is starting to reveal to her about *herself*.
asshole
True ... of course, in real life, a lot more would have been at stake than "a good grade on an assignment". I don't mean to be too cynical, but Jodie had a point, too.
accomplishment,
Yes. On the other hand, Daria has been willing to use her connections to advance her goals in other circumstances. Remember all the times Ms. Li has been scared off of doing things to her by the knowledge that Daria's mother is a top lawyer?
Drive
Certainly, Jodie needs to learn to stand up to the moral tyranny of others more than she does at present, or she is setting herself up for unhappiness. I agree that Jodie could learn something from Daria. I also think that Daria could learn something from Jodie, though.
Yes, but if she doesn't learn to get along better with people, she's alienate even her good friends ... as she nearly did this episode. Sometimes, you have to suppress your own pride and compromise, even with the people you love. *Especially* with the people you love.
Yeah ... I caught both aspects of that. Including the first. When Jodie first accused the guy of being a racist, I hadn't even noticed that he'd asked Daria first. He had to ask *someone* first, didn't he? And the assumption that if Jodie was there for her social skills, Daria had to be there for some other reason, and that other reason was that she was the one with the money, is perfectly natural.
I think that it's quite possible that Wally actually had sex with Brittany. Or at least that Brittany was at one point willing to (but that they never had the chance to follow through on it).
We've seen before that Brittany is willing to cheat on Kevin (and remember, they were having a fight). And Wally with Brittany is no more (or less) disturbing than Brittany's dad with Brittany's stepmother. And people tend to learn how to behave by watching their parents ...
I understand what the evil Chinese want with your liver and kidneys, but what do they want with the college basketball tournament? ;-)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
But it WASN'T real life. If it was, she wouldn't have been a high school student, and she wouldn't have had the problem she had in the first place! Selling out is NOT worth a grade. I'd rather be a person with morals going to community college or no college at all than someone who sells her morals out that easily... and using who you know may or may not be a moral issue to everyone, but it was to Jodie by her reaction to the first person, and she sold it out that quickly.
It's not always a matter of pride. Admittedly, it is with Jane, but is it with Jodie? There are such things as morals. And while you should be flexible, not so flexible you fall apart. Or in other words, have an open mind, but not so open it falls out.
He's a basketball coach, and therefore can be a racist all he wants, because coaches can't get fired. Which is also the reason we have a technology teacher who says AOL does not provide internet access.
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
that's a matter of opinion though, some people might think it's fine.
haha... what planet is he/she on?! the IT teacher at my school last year couldn't be bothered to go to a meeting.. this resulted in him setting the GCSE students the wrong coursework, so nobody got above a C in that class.
High school students exist in real life who have problems that make Daria's look trivial in comparison.
IMHO, Daria learned that sometimes you have to compromise to get along with people, and Jodie learned that you shouldn't compromise too easily to fulfill the expectations of others. I think that both Daria and Jodie will be better people, and better friends, as a result of what happened.
not
I think the show was making this point too, with Daria and Jodie. And I also agree that Daria was being too inflexible and demanding to Jane, who after all has a perfect right to love Tom while remaining Daria's friend.
Ah, I see.
Wow ... I must have been hallucinating all the times I thought I was going online! ;-)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
If that's true you must have weird employment laws.
What he probably meant to say was that AOL prevents *anyone else* from providing you with internet access, which is true; at least of AOL 5 anyhow, as it's apparently a trojan horse program which disables any rival ISP connections when you install it. (I believe there are currently two class action lawsuits against AOL about this.)
Well, literally, you can't fire anyone who has been there a certain number of years, which is another point of safety for him. But you WON'T fire a coach if his team's winning, no matter how racist he is or how poor a teacher he is.
Not true. I have AOL 5.0 and an internet connection through GVSU on my mother's computer. The fact is, however, that's not what he was saying. He said basically you can only go to websites AOL picks for you, not to whatever websites you want, which is so obviously false it's pathetic. Perhaps if you're on a child or teen setting under parental controls, I think they have a "let's try to sort through every damn page on the Internet and rate it" filter which can block some inoffensive sites they haven't got to yet. But that's just a filter problem, with "general" under parental controls you can go to all the websites you could under any ISP.
Dagny
http://firefly.cc.st
"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot
Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD
She's realizing she has flaws just like everyone else in the world, that she's not perfect, maybe the closest possible to it at LHS, but still not. She's resorting to the pettinss that everyone feels now and then and it' bugging the hell out of her.
Yep. Idealism only takes you to a point, then you have to make a choice of conciousness (sp?) at some point, everyone does, some go all the way, others compromise as little as possible, but it happens to everyone. Unfortunately in the real world this is the way it is and Jodie probably would've had to do the same thing, due to some peoples ignorance. Daria summed it up herself early in the ep "Damn real world".
"Arts N' Crass" is the most obvious example of this to come to mind, other examples escape me for the moment.
Jodie could use more of Daria's attitude of not worrying about what people think of you and go and do your own thing. Daria could stand to be a bit more flexible in her morals and lifestyle like Jodie is. Both I think will probably happen, they're both headed towards this as we speak.
Again I believe she realizes this and will try to, she won't become miss popularity overnight obviously, it will be a slow process to her, but it will eventually happen, I think she's already starting, see the entire exchange with Helen, for example.
I agree. I don't think the banker was racist, he just took the low moral road after hearing who Jodie's father was, he was trying to make money for the bank, anyway possible.
I agree. I was glad to see that they remembered that Jane liked Tom (a lot of shows, including many allegedly more "serious" ones, would not have bothered to maintain continuity), and I think you're right that it worked better from both a dramatic and realistic viewpoint for Daria to still be jealous of Jane's admiration for Tom.
Note that Tom gives Daria two reasons to be jealous: firstly, that Tom obviously occupies such a high place in Jane's esteem, and secondly that Jane has a boyfriend while Daria doesn't. An unstated but present element of sexual tension was there; the obvious undertone behind Daria's persistent "what did you do" is the question "Are you sleeping with him?", with the further elements that 1) Daria would probably disapprove of this, coupled with 2) Daria would be even more jealous of Jane if she was.
There are a lot of mixed emotions here when Daria considers *anyone* in a sexual relationship. Daria is simultaneously: 1) moral (or ethical) in the positive sense, 2) prudish, 3) longing to be loved herself, and thus 4) jealous of anyone who is. It makes matters worse when the person involved is Jane, having a relationship of some unknown sexual intensity. It makes matters even worse that Daria can't really let anything beyond (1) show to Jane, because she is embarassed by her other feelings.
Other boyfriend-girlfriend relationships she's seen close up have either been too silly to be jealous of (Kevin and Brittany); lacking anything to be logically critical of and also lacking any personal threat to her (Mack and Jodie); or just plain too trivial to regard as more than static (Quinn and her numerous "boyfriends"). We don't know to what extent Jane has had relationships before Tom; Daria's reaction when Jane first started talking to Tom makes me think that they were all abortive and of the nature of "trouble" that Daria had to help her get out of. Aside from the thing with the running guy, the only other sign we've had before this of even a romantic attraction was to Jesse. All this would have been easily shruggable from Daria's viewpoint. Not Tom, whom Jane is obviously falling in love with.
I actually agree with Jodie on this. If you have contacts, use them. It's not totally obvious whether the first banker was being racist in his assumptions (he might have as easily concluded that the only reason why Daria, who obviously wasn't brimming with energy about the whole thing, was there was as financial backing); what is obvious is that Jodie's dad is the sort of contact who could make or break a venture. If Daria wants to become a successful journalist or writer, she'll need to use contacts too.
I think that this episode Daria realized *both* that Jane is a *really* good person, and that Jodie is a better friend to her than she thought. Daria has always tried to minimize her caring for anyone aside from Jane, but did you notice that Daria felt both let down by Jodie's cynical use of her father's name, and hurt by Jodie's anger?
Heh-heh-heh ... at least she didn't *really* try to buy the car :)
His basic assumption of: "Hmm, you're pretty and not too bright, I can *buy* you" ... ? Yeah, I thought that was rather creepy, too. That, and the way he was following her around afterwards.
I have to wonder what happened on that spin in the convertible, beyond the salesman's offer of a trip to the Bahamas. I'd put Brittany at considerable risk of actually falling for a come-on like that ... look at her father's remarriage.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Nicole Lee, the brilliant Lady Kender, who is now published (!!) said:
That's a good point. I'd have to re-watch it carefully, but he did tend to assume that Jodie's family couldn't provide collateral, and Daria's could. The "what does he do question" was, indeed, probably meant to test her father's social class (to get even more complicated, bankers are likely to discriminate against lower-class and *in favor of* upper-class blacks as opposed to whites, because lending to a rich black is a good way of "proving" a lack of racism).
Yes. Well, Jodie is only 17 - 18 (easy to forget because she acts very adult), and she may have simply been angry at the initial implied slight to her family. Plus, her mother has made her sensitive towards that stuff.
I do think that this episode Jodie learned as much about her own character and the real world as Daria did about her own.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)
Hey, one of the girls in that room was his *little sister* ...
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)