The Zen of Daria... or something...

Howdy, all... just a few random thoughts from a newcomer to the show and this group.

I was at home for Christmas and flipping through channels on my parent's TV when "The Invitation" caught my eye. I was hooked... instantly. Luckily for me, it was just the start of a four-hour marathon. I hardly moved from the television till it was over (well, actually I left an hour before the end, but threw a tape in the VCR to catch the rest of it. :] Afterwards, I knew -- I *had* see more of this show. It was a big factor in me finally deciding to get cable TV, after years of holding out (and of not having a television.)

Daria and Jane's biting take on their fellow high schoolers (and just about everything else) struck a powerful chord with me. The moronic behavior they observe all around them is a distillation not only of what I (and many others, I'm sure) encountered at that age, but of the idiocies of American society that don't go away as you get older. In real life, you're sort of helpless to really *do* anything about it; you just keep your mouth shut and stoicly endure it. Daria is about as stoic as they come... but she sure as heck doesn't keep her mouth shut. Instead she tears into the moronity around her with a wit and sarcasm that even at my great age [twenty-five :] makes me sigh with envy. How great it would have been to have a crew of great script writers backing you up in high school! In some small way, I can't help but feel a bit vindicated watching Daria live on a completely different level than most of those around her, her off-hand comments generally passing far over their heads. It's not a superiority thing; it's just a feeling of relief -- us outcast types weren't alone after all; not everyone in the world is a straight-cut conformist; it *is* possible to stand up to the arbitrary and inane standards of today's society. I suspect anyone for whom the show resonates feels much the same.

A fine example came in yesterday's "Monster". "Blah blah blah your little drawings," someone comments to Jane (was it Quinn?) "Yes, they are rather diminutive," Jane cuts in without missing a beat. As someone who's been a victem of the "Your little whatever" description -- your little bike, your little tapes, just to name a few -- the sarcasm and indignation in that one seemingly throw-away line rang clear. At the same time, a bell went off -- Jane is someone who *gets it!* I can hardly say what "it" is, but in high school and in much of life since then, it seems that a lot of people definately *don't* get it. They can't understand the appeal of drawing, the attitude behind it, the concentration, the talent, the work... and not just drawing, but *anything* outside their limited realm of experience, anything creative or intense or personal. Such things are treated with a nervous giggle and a light dismissal. It's nice to see Jane essentially saying "ah, screw you" -- but in such a way that the offender hardly even hears the words, let alone comprehends them.

Daria is about being true to yourself, setting your own standards instead of letting society dictate them to you. Daria is someone you *want* to meet, someone you'd feel it was worth the effort to prove yourself to, precisely because she has her own set of standards, and they're obviously far above those of the world she inhabits. In the end, though, she's just a cartoon, and what you can *really* take from the show is a renewed resolve to live your life the way you want, instead of the way others would dictate.

Comments invited... Hope I'm not just reading way too much into this show... :]

Oh yeah, one last note: a couple of song titles from the shows, which AFAIK haven't been identified on the group. From "Pierce Me", the one that plays right after the comment to Kevin and Mack at the fashion show (that they must be dating or gay or something) is "Sunday Shining" by Finley Quaye (a kick-@$ reggae/rock tune). I think "Ain't Gonna Go-a" by A-3 also played in this ep but I don't know just where... ah well...

In article ,

Welcome to the group, we'll take as many people whom are interested. You're not reading too much into this show; on the contrary, I think you got the gist of it and your comments probably ring true for most of the fans of Daria.

And may you never encounter a troll or flame war in this (or any) newsgroup.

Mike Quinn I can be reached through e-mail at: [email]

[email] wrote:

Yeah, welcome. I tried to say that earlier but it didn't really work.... :)

LOL. The lack of flames in this newsgroup never ceases to amaze me. People can ask questions like "Can someone post the urls for some Daria websites?" and noone here gets angry! There weren't even any sarcastic remarks made last time someone did that! Why can't all newsgroups be like this one?

Alli

Human nature. People get the newsgroups they deserve. Intelligent cool people get pleasant newsgroups where they can have deep and meaningful discussions. Plebs get newsgroups where they can get angry and shout at each other. The key thing seem to be the subject matter. Cool TV shows such as Daria attract cool people. The same is (or was) true of the My So- Called Life newsgroup.

-Shez.

Most of my newsgroups are actually pretty nice, as long as we stay off of certain subjects- advice: never ever ever under any condition mention anything even loosely related to religion on alt.books.kurt-vonnegut as you will be attacked by all the:

1. atheists 2. christians 3. people who say "NO DON'T GO THERE" which get to be the most annoying after there's 10 messages about how the conversation should end.

Oh, and alt.fan.bonzo-dog managed to get into an argument about Ukelele tuning, which manages to be one of a few subjects I have absolutely NO opinion on...

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

Eccles9697 wrote:

On alt.music.manics, any mention of the band Space will turn the newsgroup into a flame-fest. Nobody on rec.music.rem dares to mention the name "Jerobagg" due a rather persistant troll who is now known only as "J_______" by rmr-ers. And any mention on alt.fan.courtney-love or alt.music.nirvana or alt.music.hole of the words "murder", "whore", "protest" or "Andrew Amirault" (or whatever he's calling himself today) will result in the flame war to end all flame wars (or so you'd think, but you just know someone'll start it up again next week).

LOL. I have to say, ukelele tuning is something I know absolutely nothing about, and I would be very surprised if anyone could argue about it for very long; I've never encountered a ukelele player in my life.

Alli

On 26 Jan 1999 23:07:29 GMT, [email] (Eccles9697) wrote:

In alt.games.daggerfall, we've discussed, first of all, the game, books, astrophysics, linguistics, politics, and religeon, among other things. We were particularly proud we survived that last one without flames. About the only thing we don't discuss at length is each other's shortcomings. Oh, and we don't flame newbies asking the same old question over and over again. :)

Shez wrote:

Why then, do cool bands attract obsessive stalkers instead of cool people? For example: Nirvana with over 60 fans who killed themselves just because Kurt did and many more who can't accept that he killed himself at all, and the Manic Street Preachers with hundreds of fans who actually believe that Richey is hiding out in Ibiza or wherever it was he was last "seen", and of course the "Cult Of Richey" as well. <shudder>

Alli

Dunno, maybe we all live close to the edge, and if the object of people's adulation dies this is enough to push some people into loopy country. Let's hope Daria doesn't top herself or maybe it will happen here too!

Another possibility is that big name bands like Nirvana don't just attract cool people but a rag bag of poseurs and dumb people too. The thing about Daria and My So-Called Life is that they're not enormously popular, they basically have a small cult following (which of course is why ABC cancelled MSCL - despite critical acclaim it had poor ratings). In my experience when cult things become mainstream the fanbase goes downhill as fast as it expands.

-Shez.

I can *personally* testify to that. Alt.toys.transformers was maybe the nicest group on the 'net 4-5 years ago, when Transformers were pretty much dead in the water and only a hardcore fanbase still cared about it. Then a new show and toy line came along, the popularity soared, and now about 2/3 of ATT's posts aren't worth reading. Just the way the cookie bounces, I guess.

Veering back on topic, I got to see "Write Where it Hurts" last night. Wow. GREAT episode... no wonder it's highly regarded (or so I've gathered.) It was funny to know a few of the lines before they were were actually spoken... Helen was remarkably *human* and compassionate, even understanding -- not something I've seen much of at all... Daria's story worlds were hysterical, wonderful parodies both of generes ("The Graduate", Emma Thompson-style movies) and of the show's characters. We got the rare treat (?) of seeing Daria be visibly angry (at her mom) and suffering considerable self-doubt over her ability to write. Remarkable look at what makes her tick, without ever compromising her character or stepping outside its boundaries.

Robert Powers wrote:

This episode was probably Helen's finest hour as a parent. I think I would like to see something similar with Jake, at least once. One of the complaints I have with "The Simpsons" is that as the series has gone on, Homer has gotten progressively dumber. But even he had his moments. I'd like to see Jake come through for a change.

"endless, nameless" wrote:

And it's not like it's a recent thing, either. Just think of all of those psychos who think that just because Elvis' middle name is misspelled on his grave, he didn't really die of a heart attack on the toilet, but is actually pumping gas in Montana, or something equally insipid. It's just a basic flaw in some people that they can't understand that things go wrong, that the center doesn't hold, that even popular people die unexpectedly. And, yeah, it's a shame that Nirvana won't be making any more music, but life will go on regardless. But some people just don't like to deal with the fact that life is as full of endings as it is of beginnings, and you can't have one without the other. I take the zen approach-- I embrace the beginning as I mourn the ending, and I understand that everything must end, everything must change, because otherwise there is no growth in stasis. </soapbox>

rich.

Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!

Get it right! I have it on good authority he's been seen in a diner in Tennessee with Graham Chapman

And every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. That was in my church bulletin, I'm like, "whooah weird".

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

[email] (Eccles9697) wrote:

Seems like someone in your church was listening to "Closing Time" by Semisonic when s/he was preparing the newsletter. :-)

rich.

"This is Precious Roy, and I just ate a handful of honeybees!" -- Precious Roy.

Part of it is probably that shows like Daria are somewhat obscure. Nirvana was hugely popular and played all over the radio, tv, etc. Thus a lot of obsessive types latched onto the group. And since Kurt's death was big news, stories related to his death (like suiciding fans) were also big news. If a handful of Daria fans killed themselves because Trent died of a heroin overdose in 'very special' episode of Daria, it's unlikely that the news would take notice. It might rate a small story about how this depressing show is killing its viewers, if some news guy happened to notice. Perhaps Daria would start carrying a disclaimer at the beginning, like Beavis and Butthead.

Another part of it is probably the different nature of bands like Nirvana and shows like Daria. Admittedly, I was never a Nirvana fan, so I don't know much about the kind of songs they did, but I suspect that their general tone was different from the tone of Daria. For whatever reason, the obsessives probably found the band to be something that really got to them, while Daria deosn't have the same effect on people.

It's interesting, because this is the first newsgroup i ever read.. and then I went to alt.music.beastie-boys.. yikes. There's a rather large war going on right now concerning mumia abu-jamal.. but i won't spread that over to this place.

Because all true Daria fans are cool. And not too many others are.

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:20:35 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Aren't I the lucky one! I find all the good newsgroups! Every one I subscribe to is flame-retardent. I also subscribe to alt.games.daggerfall, which is almost completely flame proof, and alt.games.tradewars, which is flameless for the most part because it's, well, empty :(. But hey! No flames! :D

Tarvok wrote:

LOL. Alt.music.hole is almost empty a lot of the time (although not now because Malibu's just been released and the album wasn't that long ago) but 90% of the messages there are flames. Odd, that. Alt.music.kenickie is completely empty most of the time, thus, there are no flames because any messages that do appear are along the lines of "Is anybody here?" or "Yes, I'm here! Wow, there's two of us!"

Alli

Robert Powers wrote:

oh hello Robert new person or whateverr.

Why onyl America? it's the same in lots of other places,like the uk. Amlost, anyway. but i don't know, iv'e never been there. I could ask my friend whos from there but whether he'l ever speak to me again or not i don't know... bastard

School sucks I hate everyone there and it would seem that they hate me as much too because today someone decidedd to try to totally ruin my life and it fucking worked and all// I hate being the sad loser all the time but theres

nothing I can do about it

she says "miniscule" or something 'cos quinn said they were "little"

i wish I could live my life the way others dictate but it doesn't work no matter how hard i try to be normal it doesn't fucking work. so i have to do just what I want because i can't do anything else because i don't know ,i just can''t.

there's list of all the songs played during each episode somewhere. Outpost Daria i think./

Alli

I can offer you advice on how to deal with feeling bad about things, but I'm afraid inflation has forced me to institute a small fee for my services. Ten dollars. In advance.

-Shez.

Sorry for that stupid post. Ignore it please, everyone. I'm sorry. Nevermind....

Alli

Sorry My ignor botton don't work no more, :) You used it all up =>

..........................
I think your contaghius...
its jumpt to me...

Andrea

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:20:41 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Sorry, I read this post after I posted that message.

Cheer up. It won't always be bad. One day, you'll be a highly paid engineer, and be able to laugh in their po' ass faces!

Tarvok wrote:

Which message?

Whose po' ass faces? Am I missing something here? (My brain, perhaps?) Anyway, I would like to exact revenge on someone, but I don't know who it is yet, so I can't. <glares darkly> I have my suspicions, but, unfortunately, it could have been just about anybody. Oh well, I'll just have to hate everyone until I find out who it actually was. The only problem there being that I do that already.

Alli

You could just hate your principal like I do, that works for me. Wait, that's because the most shitty thing that happened to me in high school WAS his fault partly, and whose else it was I have absolutely no idea... never mind. Is life always stupid and humiliating, or is it just a phase?

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

In article , [email] (Eccles9697) wrote:

Life is just a phase. But it pays to stick around 'til the end, instead of leaving too soon.

On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:26:24 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

That's odd. Where'd it go?

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:18:24 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

When I was in 8th grade, there was a bully that very deliberately, and, I might add, effectively, managed to seperate me from all, count 'em, ALL of my friends. At the end of that school year, I had absolutely 0 (count 'em) friends, though I had a fairly good family, so it was okay. It was especially nice how my sister had pretty much the same problem. But, it wasn't so bad. For a while, I got a lot of reading done and stuff, and by the end of my freshman year, I'd found a group of people I belonged with, anyway.

Why do you want to live like everybody else? Don't be afraid to cut loose from your current circle... it is well worth it. For some reason, the people you spend your early years ALWAYS remember who you once were. And in my case, not only the people that knew me, but even those that didn't but live in my old neighborhood still treat me like dirt. It's always the 12-15 year old kids, and they ALWAYS made fun of me, even when I was friggin 18 years old (I'm 21, now). A guy I work with is someone I never met before, but he grew up on this side of town, and he ALSO makes fun of me. But, anywhere OUTSIDE this area, I am accepted for who I am, or ignored, which was all I ever wanted, anyway.

Tarvok wrote:

This one girl in year 8 turned all my friends against me without me knowing it was her, and then befriended me and was just a total bitch the whole time. But I got her back - LOL, she's got this scar on her face now from where I hit her last year!

There's nobody I belong with here. I'm too weird and too "intellectual" and too sensitive to ever "belong" anywhere.

I don't know who it was that was behind this particular incident, but I don't think it could have been helped in any way by my cutting loose from my current circle. I don't *think* it was any of my friends, but it wouldn't surprise me much if it was. Anyway, whoever it was, they managed to hurt two people for no apparent reason. I don't even know if they realise that it hurt, they probably thought it was just a really funny thing to do. I just want to be like everyone else so I'm not always the target for such things.

Alli

i didnt have any friends still i was in high school. when i was k\in kindergarten the other kids pretended to throw me in an oven to kill me. Saerah

AniSaerah wrote:

I wasn't unpopular in pre-school. It was just as I got older I got weirder and people started to notice.

Alli

On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:26:30 GMT, [email] (Tarvok) wrote:

<snip>

Hey, Ali... THIS message!. Here it is. :)

Welcome. Be sure to vote for Daria in the Toon TV Showdown (yes, another plug...but Daria's turn comes up again this coming Friday! The address is: http://www.usaweekend.com/celebs/ so vote early and often!)

(snip of interesting remarks)

No, I think you understand it quite well.

Actually the episode is "I Don't" but that's okay. I like that scene (the jeweler at the bridal expo telling Kevin & Mack that his store welcomes same-sex partners).

Since you sound like you may be a music expert: when you see the episode "The Big House" (if you haven't seen it already), there is a song that has yet to be identified. It's heard a couple of times about halfway through the show, in scenes were Daria and Quinn are grounded. Quinn's on the phone with her "psychic buddy" while Daria's whipping her father in Monopoly. There's a line sung that goes like "Keep me on Mount Everest" and it sounds like a female voice. I tried a request in alt.music.lyrics but no one has been able to help. If you know this song you will be a legend in this newsgroup, believe me!

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:57:39 -0500, Jeg7777 wrote:

Don't expect any help from the International Lyrics Server at http://www.lyrics.ch. The Nazi Music Publishers Association has filed suit against them, and the site is temporarily shut down.

Martin (to send e-mail, remove the "nospam" from my e-mail address) ---- "Don't worry. Today it's brains, tomorrow pierced tongues, then the next day, pierced brains." - Jane Lane ---- Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria! http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/

In article , [email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote:

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!! Now Lyrics.CH is closed too!!! The bastards!!!!!!!

--.\\<-H---

Michelle Klein-Hass wrote:

Huh? Who's bastards? What else closed? Sorry, I'm just not with it today..... yeah, I had another really really bad day. :(

Alli

Oh... whoops! That's what happens when you watch four hours of one show then write about it a month later... things are bound to get a bit mixed up. :]

Now that I have cable, I'm taping daily [insert happy over-eager slavering noises here]. I'll keep my eyes open for it...

who was it that was saying that they were talking to Glenn? (i'm not even going to try to spell his last name from memory) he would probaably know.. or at least he could probably find out.

This reminds me.. on the credits of daria they list interns sometimes.. ahhh, to be an intern on daria.. what do you suppose they do, anyway? fetch coffee? take notes? select the song list, perhaps?

Glenn Eichler! That's IT! Pinky, are you pondering what...I'm....oh wait, that's the show we'll be voting AGAINST in the TV Toon Showdown... but seriously, perhaps Mr. Eichler could enlighten us as to this song?

Jeg7777 wrote:

"Keep me on Mount Everest". That sounds so familiar! Oh, what is it? I'm sure I know the song, but I can't remember it now. I'll go watch the episode later and see if it miraculously returns to me then. But I may just be delusional and insane and not know the song at all. :)

Alli