Ok, I'm probably the first to post, but I couldn't wait.....
SPOILER AHEAD.....
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Oh wow, I'm sorry.....I was pooh-poohing the idea of a Daria-Tom-Jane triangle, but this episode sort of clinches it, doesn't it? I don't know what must have felt worse to Daria, the argument with Jane or the conversation with Trent who in my mind has made up for all his absences this season with this appearance. Daria for what will not be the last time is left in a position of vunerability. How she handles it is anyone's guess. And Jane? How long has she been aware of what's going on? It puts for me a whole new spin on the speculation for the season finale. And the movie. Again, I'm sorry.
She wound up arguing with Trent, too. Who in my opinion is _not_ at all happy about Tom's attraction to Daria, both because of the possible effects on Jane, and because it might mean that Daria would no longer be available.
On the one hand, she obviously likes Tom, at least as a good friend. They connect on a level as deep as Daria does with Jane. On the other hand, Daria really wouldn't want to hurt Jane, and she knows that if she "took her boyfriend away" that would probably devastate Jane, and end their friendship.
I would believe it would be much more the former than the latter, but it's not out of the realm of possibility, eventually.
She has said she'd never willingly hurt Jane, to this point she hasn't done anything at all, but should she decide to act upon these newfound feelings, she then would. I think Daria's the type of person who would value a true blue, solid friendship, over any type of bf/gf relationship. She'd love to be able to have the best of both worlds, but there's no way that can happen in the current situation. Either Tom or Jane gets hurt, and in either case Daria gets hurt as well.
I don't know why but I felt really bad for Trent...like he looked really sad when he saw Daria and Tom laughing....like he is completely jealous....I think Trent thinks he can't compete with Tom, that maybe he just doesn't know as much as him, and that he is too much of a "loser"...or else he knew daria liked him and misses being the only guy she was interested in ? Also, Jane and Tom don't seem compatible at all now....they're just two people who sit together and make fun of tv. Daria's is in one damn tuff position...but I'm a trent-lover, so if my instinct's right.....GO FOR TRENT MAN! sorry.....must control myself....
Johanna "I'm so ugly but that's okay cuz so are you"~Kurt Cobain "Fred Durst can surf a piece of plywood up my a$"~Trent Reznor
I'll have to see another episode to get a clearer view of the Jane-Tom-Daria situation, but I just have to say things. This all just seems like a completely new and different feeling for Daria. Sure, she had a crush on Trent for the longest time, but she mostly did all of the crushing (except maybe "Pierce Me," but anyway...). Now it looks like Tom is really interested in her. She didn't have to act differently when she was around him; in fact, she treated him rather poorly when she first met him. Now, Tom just seems to light up when Daria enters the room or someone is talking about her. Tom is so perfect for Daria. Too bad he went out with Jane first and Daria's sense of honor and loyalty would never let her put her interest in Tom over her friendship with Jane.
I don't really know how Trent fits into all of this yet. At first, I thought if the writers were going to look into the Jane- Tom-Daria issue, Trent would've been left far out of it to put more of the focus on Tom. When I saw Trent listening to Daria and Tom's conversation, I thought he was sad and jealous. However, his advice to Daria was a little strange though. He kind of told her not to hide the way she feels and not feel guilty about it. I don't think that's the kind of advice someone would give you if they wanted to go out with you instead of some other guy. It's nice to see that Trent does have a little insite into Daria's personality though. He saw her constant denial as "playing dumb" in order to avoid feelings of guilt, which I think it probably was.
Poor Jane! She thought that Daria was trying to steal Tom, but then she finds out that Tom has been the mostly guilty party all along. The look of realization on her face when she found out that Tom went to Daria's room out of his own will was terrific.
By the way, doesn't anyone else think it was really sweet to see Jake and Helen get along so well, especially after a shaky start? It was so cute when Jake gave Helen that grin when she asked him if he had any better ideas about what they should do with their time.
Well, I'm tired and I'm starting to talk (type?) in funny sentences. I'm going to bed...
-----> Violator's Toad <-----
"Please be careful, I exist in someone else's head." - from "Annie" by Our Lady Peace
I don't know; I think Trent was more upset about Tom taking a likeness to Daria, not that he was upset that Daria was possibly going to be taken in the future.
Exactly. When Daria said she wouldn't be joining them for pizza, if you look at Tom, his head drops. He's disappointed.>and Daria's sense of honor
I don't know. People need friends, but they need boyfriends/girlfriends, too. I don't think Daria's just gonna wake up one day and say "Oh, I like Tom, but Jane was my friend first. Okay, screw Tom! Let's go on like I never met him! Jane's more important!" Daria is too stubborn to give up Tom-- you can tell by the tense conversations she had with Jane that she never agreed to *stop* seeing Tom. She wants both relationships; we'll see what she gets.
He does. I think he's sort of watching over her. He usually doesn't interfere, but his advice was for her best interests. He does care about her a lot, but I think he's willing to "let her go" if that's what she wants.
*krimren* c.a.t.a.t.o.n.i.a it's all over the front page/you give me road rage/racing through the best days/and it's up to you boy driving me crazy/thinking you may be losing your mind/
On 27 Jul 2000 23:10:01 GMT, [email] (kim ) wrote:
Agreed. When Jane offered to go for pizza later, Tom decided to stay in instead. He had lost interest in the whole thing.
Oh, NO. No, no, no, no, no, and no. Nobody "needs" a boyfriend/girlfriend. Single people, believe it or not, can live very satisfying and fulfilling lives without a partner or a spouse. The concept that one needs a "soulmate" to "complete" them is just an awful old myth that we can't seem to get rid off. As far as Daria goes, she is a strong and capable person, and is able to live and grow in this life without a life partner. She, of all people, does not *need* a boyfriend. I could also go on about the power of individualism and feminism, but you don't need me to tell you about stuff like that :)
Er... "stop seeing Tom"? Since when has she been "seeing Tom"? As I recall, Tom was the one that visited her in the room.. she didn't start anything. She may have a liking towards Tom, but by no means has she actually started "seeing" him. As Trent said towards the end of the ep, whatever happened was by no fault of Daria's.
Daria is too stubborn to "give up Tom"? She doesn't *own* the guy to give him up in the first place! I think you've severely degraded Daria's character into a conniving backstabber that's willing to see her best friend's boyfriend behind her back. When in fact, she has done nothing of the sort. In fact, she has tried her hardest *not* to do so.
No matter how great a guy is, he will never replace true friendship. If Tom does end up breaking Daria and Jane's friendship, you will end up with a very broken-hearted Jane, and eventually, a very broken-hearted Daria as she realizes that she gave up her one true friend. Tom, who is a very nice fellow, and does seem to be very compatible with Daria, is after all less important than a true best friend. And you know what? Jane *is* more important than that. Daria herself had said that she would never intentionally hurt Jane. And I for one believe her.
She has shown some affection for Tom, yes. But notice her grief isn't exactly over wanting Tom.. Her grief comes over the fact that she has inadvertently sparked off Jane's jealousy. She realizes that Tom *is* sort of hitting on her, and this scares her. She is now the "other woman". And she does not like it. Jane has also noticed that Tom is spending more time with Daria than usual. Jane does not like it either. Would *you*?
Daria, I think, has been denying her feelings for Tom for some time because she does not want to deal with the situation above. She realizes that she does have a great time talking to Tom about stuff.. and it appears that Tom is more compatible with Daria about certain things than he is with Jane. However, Tom is *still* Jane's boyfriend, and Jane *still* really likes him, whether you like it or not. Daria, if she honestly treasures her friendship with Jane, will not even attempt to interfere, unless she is forced to.
Besides, why can't Daria and Tom be *friends* instead of bf/gf? IMO, they'd make great friends. Unfortunately, Tom seems to be smitten by the love bug.. and Daria may soon be too. It's a very tough situation for Daria to be in.. And an equally tough situation for Jane to be in. Imagine what JANE must be going through! Her boyfriend has gone out of his way to *avoid* her and instead paid attention to her *best friend*! I know I'd be pissed!
Trent's actually acting as the Wise Mediator here.. Who'd have thunk it? Mr Oblivious himself has made an accurate observation!
Cheers, Nicole Lee
http://www.neekole.com
"I'm the master of the zing zang zoom!" -- Conan O'Brien
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- Isaac Asimov
"No, no, no, Lisa. If adults don't like their jobs, they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do it really half-assed." -- Homer Simpson
Daria Code v1.1: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313,406 BB- FCD DT q fN
He appears smitten, until he actually comes out and says it, we'll never be completely sure it wasn't that he wanted and not just a close friendship.
You don't need a life partner, I've lived without one for all of my nearly 25 years.
Exactly, she's done nothing but try to avoid the fact and not make it worse, which hasn't happened at all. She likes him as a person now, and a friend, she did nothing herself, only Tom instigated anything at all.
Exactly, see above.
Me too. This is why she's in the torment she is in at the end of the ep. She doesn't want to hurt Jane, yet she's feeling wanted by someone more on her level intellectually, she's never had this feeling before and it can be a powerful one, thus explaining the final shot. In the end either Jane or Tom will be hurt, and in either case Daria will be hurt. No matter the outcome, 2/3 of the parties involved get hurt.
Can't say I've personally been in this situation, but I don't think I'd like it either. Daria's never been this unsure about something ever, and that's what's scaring her as well.
Exactly, she doesn't want any more trouble than there already is, she won't interfere until circumstances deem it necessary, for ex. if Tom asks Daria right out in the open in front of Jane.
Just think what would've happened that night if Jane had gone to the bathroom instead of Daria, would the situations be completely reversed? I think so.
The look of realization on her face made me want to grab her and comfort her, she's never been this hurt before that we've seen. Chinks are now visible in her armor that weren't before this ep.
He's proving himself more and more worthy of Daria every time we see him, not that anything will happen there soon, if ever.
I stand corrected. Sorry I hit on a touchy subject.
Making contact with him and/or talking to him if he's around.
I haven't degraded Daria into anything. I'm just speculating. Maybe I wasn't clear before-- I just mean that she does appear to want a friendship with Tom *and* a friendship with Jane, and doesn't want to give up her friendship with Tom just because it makes Jane uncomfortable. But these are just my ideas and you are free to disagree to your heart's content.
Tom, who is a very nice fellow, and does seem to be very
I guess I can't relate/understand because I have no close, best friends. I do have relationships, though, so I really can't see how a friendship should take priority over a b/f.
That's a safer option for all of us, and probably the wisest one.
I agree with you. I think that Daria could love very deeply and live as "happily ever after" as anyone of her intelligence and perceptiveness can, but I also believe that she is not at all desperately in need of love: and she would not willingly sacrifice her (self-defined) honor and integrity to "catch" a mate.
Exactly. At _no_ point has Daria done anything beyond being Tom's friend.
Which I don't think Trent fully realized at the beginning of that conversation, by the way.
Yes. The only thing she did that anyone might object to was call Tom on the phone, and that's hardly an act of sexual aggression. Nor did she mean it romantically.
What makes this more complicated is that Daria and Tom have the potential to be very good friends, even if they never are romantically involved. (Of course, given Daria's personality, that's the only reason he stands a chance with her).
I do too. The tragedy here is that Daria may be hurting Jane just by being there as a point of comparison.
Exactly.
And rightly so.
I'm not sure that Tom fully realizes what he's doing, by the way. Originally, he was trying to get along with Daria because Daria was Jane's best friend; the change in attitudes comes in "Parade".
Absolutely NOT. Jane's reactions are quite understandable. Her ultimate realization that Daria was _not_ deliberately trying to seduce Tom, and her reaction to this realization (blaming herself for her jealousy) showed Jane at her best.
As I've said many times: Trent's not stupid. He's lazy. And he's capable of surmounting his laziness on occasion. Especially when protecting people he cares about. And he cares about both Jane _and_ Daria.
This changed in "Jane's Addition". Specifically, they both realized that _as they were now_ they were romantically incompatible.
They also realized that they still liked each other, though.
Yep.
That's the kicker.
Oh, for two reasons. For himself, and for Jane.
Trent is _honorable_. And honest. He wouldn't lie to someone he cares as much about as he does about Daria, no matter what it cost him. This is one of the truly admirable things about his character.
I think he realized that Daria had been truly innocent _before_. That's why he stopped being angry. (He was _mad_ at her at first, didn't you notice that?) Then he told her the score, and his point was that now she could _no longer_ pretent to innocence in this matter.
She was horrified because this meant that it was truly Tom's choice. Not manipulation by anyone.
hey- why can't they *both * go out with tom?. this is high school, not permanent shit. :) Saerah "Are we going to the same place? if so, can I come?" ~ Eddie Vedder "The Almighty thinks he can get me out of this, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."~Stephen (from Braveheart) "Practice deliberate acts of kindness and purposeful acts of beauty"
[Insert spoilers for those that don't want to be spoiled].
<Butthead> uhuhuhuhuh he said 'isnert' uhuhuhuhuhhu </Butthead>
Humm that would be humm "interesting" hey this is starting to sound like a proto script for a cheesy porno flick :) Besides going out with both of them is only delaying the problem, sooner or later he'd have to decide, because assuming it went to the ultimate concusion he can only leagally marry one of them (at least in the US, unless I've got US law back to front again :)), and even so eventually he'd probably want to make a desision and one of them would get hurt.
1) I think that Jane's quite serious about Tom, both emotionally and in terms of the degree to which they've become involved. (Jane's probably capable of a casual relationship, but the evidence from the show so far is that this isn't casual).
2) Daria wouldn't get involved with anyone non-seriously. She's sensitive, rather prudish, and comes out of a very monogamous background.
3) The evidence from [address] is that in any case Jane would be way too jealous; in that ep she was jealous of what was essentially just the _friendship_ between Daria and Tom.
4) So, this would be a recipe for a horrible disaster in which everyone would wind up hating everybody else.
She is really serious about Tom to the extent that if it came to an end (which is becoming likely with each episode) it could cause some serious emotional upheaval.
I'm very interested in seeing how Daria handles a relationship. It's one thing to think about doing it; quite different actually going through it.
Well, Daria's calling Tom and not telling Jane was the spark that started the flames of jealousy. That and the fact that he seems to have a better time with Daria these days than with Jane.
I think that's what they're working towards in the finale. Someone will get hurt in some way. I can see them interacting in the future, but the tension remaining. Regardless of the outcome.
Definitely major carnage. Did you see her hacking up that canvas? Jane on the rampage is something I wouldn't want to be around! :)
Yeah, it's weird but now that I think of it, I can't even imagine Daria in a relationship. She's so independent you know. Even when she's with other people, she seems to keep a certain distance. She might be lonely sometimes but on the whole, I wonder if she doesn't prefer being alone. When you're in a relationship you have to be willing to give a lot of yourself, I think, and I wonder how much of herself Daria is willing to give to any relationship. Some girls (and some guys) will latch onto someone and never let go, and Daria seems the opposite. She's the ultimate love-you-at-a-distance girl. She might feel very much in love with someone and yet still want that independence and not want to be with that person nearly as much as he'd want to be with her.
Someone wondered what if Jane had gone to the bathroom way back when instead of Daria, would the roles be reversed? Not unless you think Jane and Daria are interchangable! I don't think Daria would've hooked up with Tom in the first place; she wouldn't have gone for that ride in Tom's car. And I don't think she's nearly as interested in being in a relationship with anyone as Jane was/is.
Depending on how strong his feelings really are for Daria, he could be really torn. Think of it. He goes through all this trouble trying to win the trust/respect of his girlfriend's best friend just to placate her, and when he finally does he realizes how amazing this girl is. And the fact that he sort of had to earn it, that he had to work to get her to like him, well... it probably seems that much more rewarding. You know, it's like, getting someone who smiles all the time to smile at you isn't as interesting as getting someone like Daria to smile. It feels like more of an accomplishment. Am I making any sense?
It's amazing how three people whose intentions were good, especially for each other, could wind up hurting each other so much. Happens all the time though.
Neither would I, and the carnage may just be beginning to unfold.
It's just very hard to picture her in a serious relationship, which it appears were heading towards, though its possible, the scenario above describes my parents marriage, which just passed the 32nd anniversary last Thurs. My Mom loves my Dad, but they've needed their independance from each other, but come together when needed, or when they feel like it.
True, but we also thought Jane would never do the same thing when she went ahead and went out with Tom in Jane's Addition.
Of course it does, the more work you put in, the sweeter the reward. I've said it elsewhere, I'll say it again, the answer to this whole situation lies in Tom's head, Is Daria just a good friend, or something more?
Yep. No matter how little or how much, 2 of the 3 people involved at least, will be hurt, and it may take a long time to heal the scars from this, no matter how it turns out.
Jane's impulsive, but when she does really choose to love (as she has chosen first with Daria, and then romantically with Tom), she's loyal. A situation where Daria took Tom from her would be her worst nightmare. She'd lose both her best friend and her beloved.
I think that when Daria does choose to love a man, she'll love him very deeply. One way that Daria and Jane are very similar is that neither of them are at all shallow. The main difference is that Jane is impulsive. (One can be impulsive without being shallow; it simply is a good way to get your heart broken).
I do agree that she would be uncomfortable expressing her love. I think she'd be sexually passionate (once she decided to let things go that far), but otherwise very reserved when it came to discussing her emotions. Her lover would have to be insightful and secure enough to realize that this didn't mean she didn't really care about him.
I think that Daria is more emotionally self-sufficient than Jane is. She doesn't _need_ a friend or lover the way Jane does.
I don't think she would have gone off in Tom's car. That was actually a dumb thing for Jane to do.
But I do think that she might have become Tom's friend. And _eventually_ gone out with him.
[email] (kim ) wrote in <20000729210259.25181.00000028@ng- ct1.aol.com>:
<Butthead> uhuhuhuh that would be cool uhuhuhuh </Butthead>
Actually thinking about that from Tom's perspective, that could be pretty cool :) though personally I always though Daria the cuter one, and I don't just mean when she dressed up like Quinn, I mean the rest of the time as well, yeah I know I'm strange :) Yes I also know she is a cartoon, but I have met people that look sorta like her, so it's a type of look that I like ok :)
Something tells me that comment will spark a few 'fics... *sigh*. -J The Leopard Lady "People shouldn't be judged by the color of their skin. They should be judged on important things like their taste in music!"-Murphy Brown "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie
im not saying thats something i *wouldnt * want to see, but i was kind of being tongue in cheek Saerah "Are we going to the same place? if so, can I come?" ~ Eddie Vedder "The Almighty thinks he can get me out of this, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."~Stephen (from Braveheart) "Practice deliberate acts of kindness and purposeful acts of beauty"
Actually, after watching it a few more times, there didn't seem to be any look of jealousy on Trent's face when he's listening to Tom and Daria. Maybe just curiosity or interest...
instead
cares as much
is one of the
My point is that Trent does not want to go out with Daria any longer (if he ever did). He's "looking out" for Jane and Daria. There wasn't even the slightest hint of romance in the conversation, and I'm convinced that there is absolutely no *love* feelings between Daria and Trent anymore.
_before_. That's why he
notice that?)
could _no longer_
Agreed.
-----> Violator's Toad <-----
"Please be careful, I exist in someone else's head." - from "Annie" by Our Lady Peace
Then why does he look so _unhappy?_ "Curiosity or interest" is normally a _pleasant_ expression; Trent was _frowning_, and his body language was all wrong for any good emotion.
IMO, even if Trent wanted to go out with Daria, he wouldn't lie to her to achieve that end. Especially not when he was specifically giving her advice. Trent is _honorable_, haven't you noticed that?
Of course not, considering the subject matter.
Maybe not on Daria's side. I think there still is on Trent's.
Probably more of a disappointed feeling that a) someone was doing something mean (intentionally or not) to his little sis, Janey and b) he thought that someone was Daria, and he expected better of her.
Trent was _frowning_, and his body language was all
True...but Trent doesn't naturally look very happy. His expression didn't change as he approached the door.
to her to
giving her advice.
conversation
Well, Trent didn't have a jealous hint in his voice either, and I think that's more of what I meant.
*Shipper!* :)
-----> Violator's Toad <-----
"Please be careful, I exist in someone else's head." - from "Annie" by Our Lady Peace
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"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote:
which brings up something i've noticed in the last few episodes....am i just paying more attention lately, or do the characters seem to be using body language more than they used to? e.g., the scene in Jane's room in "Fire!" (when she has the whole Tom-went-to-see-Daria-first revelation), the use of body language, gestures, and facial expressions are nothing short of masterful throughout the whole scene. Jane does it so much you could almost figure out what was going on with the sound turned off. and it's even more noticeable in #413. seems like they spent a lot of time working on this stuff....they didn't just fall back on the "Jane always looks about halfway pissed off at everything" and "Daria just slouches all the time" stereotypes they could have used. they're putting a lot into it lately, maybe just because these were important episodes in what is turning into an actual chronological story arc. which is fine by me. shows they care, no?
It's not your imagination. The facial animation has also gotten a _lot_ more sophisticated and coordinated with the dialogue.
everything"
fine by
Oh yes. Also, part of the reason is that these episodes hinge on subtle emotional interplay rather than broad comedy. All three (or four) of the main participants here are intelligent, proud, and subtle people.
seems like they spent a lot of time working on this stuff....they
I agree there. Interesting point. Now compare any season 1 or 2 episode with one of the more recent ones; I think the animation and *use* of the animation is getting much better.
*krimren* c.a.t.a.t.o.n.i.a it's all over the front page/you give me road rage/racing through the best days/and it's up to you boy driving me crazy/thinking you may be losing your mind/
i'll take care of the lighter stuff first...the fire? i wonder just how many "gahh dammit"s jake managed to squeeze in, in about 5 minutes? the sick sad world "simulation" word on the screen thing was hilarious. same goes for mack, (i told you not to call me that!), kevin, and a couple of the J's playing footbal in the school halls. mr o'neill isn't impressing anyone anymore. that was too funny. onward to the serious stuff: time changes things. if anything was gonna happen between trent and daria, it's gone now. long gone. mr. quinn should be extremely happy with that, LOL. tom and daria laugh a lot together...daria does have an odd laugh, though...jane said she feels like a third wheel in her own relationship. bingo, sister. it's a delicate situation, and i do hope some good comes out of it in the end, cause right now it's hurting everyone and everything involved. trent was right about guys knowing, and daria in the car...? i fully expected a big, flashy "to be continued..." to appear on the screen. speaking of fully expected, i wonder just how many of you saw quinn in the detective's office and thought "ooh, ooh, i was right! she's been raped!"...sandi was one jealous girl over bobby the bellboy/computer geek. i guess it will be continued, in the movie and in episodes to come.
A pun, you know. The ep's title was ostensibly about the fire at the Morgendorffers, but another kind of "fire" started at the Lanes.
It's sad to think that Mack and Jodie don't get to be together much because of Jodie's workload. I hope that they aren't going to break up.
Maybe. Don't underestimate Trent. Have you noticed that Mystik Spiral has actually been getting gigs and doing regular rehearsals lately? Starting around late Season 3 ... maybe Trent is really going to make something of himself? Daria's problem with him, if you recall, was his total laziness.
Hmm?
A very bad situation for Jane, considering that Tom isn't laughing much with _her_ any more.
Not much experience at it.
Jane knows what's happening. And now she realizes that Daria hasn't been making it happen. Which is worse, because it means that _Tom_ really likes spending time with Daria more than he does with Jane. Did you notice how _sad_ Jane looked when she realized that Tom had sought Daria out on purpose?
Perhaps not "guys" in general, but _Trent_ obviously did. And he looked jealous when he first noticed it.
Heh heh heh ... I think it was implied :)
I realized that she hadn't been the moment that the scene cut to Quinn babbling about Detective Fashion. Quinn's not really _that_ shallow; she has real emotions under the facade.
The _real_ joke here was that when Quinn said "Oh my God ..." I, and everyone watching, thought that she was upset because Bobby turned out to be a _criminal_. Instead, it was the "computer" aspect of his actions which bothered her.
Not an encouraging sign of Quinn's Sense of Reality :)
I just meant that Mike Quinn appears to have been The Anti-Shipper from day one, and I think he'd be pretty happy that Daria's over Trent and Trent's over Daria.
True...but have you noticed that he doesn't ever say "Good one, Daria" followed by his trademark laugh/cough anymore? Nor does Daria flinch when Trent's around. She didn't say "eep" in Legends of the Mall when she found out she'd be riding in the same car with him. In fact, there have hardly been any Daria/Trent scenes this season. From what the writers and animators seem to be showing, she's over him, and I think that if anything (crushing/dating) was supposed to happen, they would give Trent and Daria more screen time together. Instead, Tom gets it. Either that, or they show "unhappy couple" scenes with Jane and Tom. But that's just my impression.
I felt sorry for her. Like I said, this setup is hurting everyone involved. Jane doesn't deserve it, but then, sometimes I think love just happens. Tom didn't pick Daria and Daria didn't pick Tom. Tom picked *Jane*. But like Trent said, it isn't Daria's fault, and it's probably not Tom's either, although he has been the one initating things between him and Daria. Still, she called him too. Ugh. I don't know. Now I've got two love lives to worry about: mine _and_ Daria's. ;)
Next week: Jane dyes her hair...any color guesses? I'm going with blonde.
It's going to be purple (the clip at daria.mtv.com for #413 has Daria "painting" Jane's hair with some purple goo).
It would be sort of hard (but I guess not impossible) for someone with hair the same color as Jane to get it to blond. My brother has that color hair and he tried to bleach his hair blond and after five or six bleachings he only got to dark red.
But, all hair dyes go on as some odd shade of brown or purple, regardless of what color they're gonna be in the end. The salon-quality ones, anyway. When I had my hair re-dyed brown, the stuff the sylist put on was sky-blue. So I'm not assuming too much about #413 yet, although I wouldn't put purple past Jane.
there is at least one brand of hair bleach that lokks purple when you mix t up Saerah "Are we going to the same place? if so, can I come?" ~ Eddie Vedder "The Almighty thinks he can get me out of this, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."~Stephen (from Braveheart) "Practice deliberate acts of kindness and purposeful acts of beauty"
Their only major interaction lately was the one in "Fire!", and _that_ was more of a dramatic confrontation than anything else.
I would argue that these mannerisms were signs of Daria's immaturity and unreadiness for any romantic relationship. Daria was totally unused to being in the presence of a man whom she was attracted to and _who might like her back_.
Daria's more mature now. You'll notice that she isn't uncomfortable around _Tom_ either. And never was, in THAT sense of "uncomfortable".
Daria is naturally a very stable, level-headed girl. The mode she is in now: of attraction flowing from the presence of a man she likes, respects, and _is comfortable with_, is probably the basic pattern that she will keep in terms of romantic attraction. Her previous extreme shyness was due to inexperience in dealing not only with men, but _with people in general_.
The problem is that this has the potential to utterly destroy Daria's friendship with Jane.
He said this, notice, _after_ he confronted Daria and realized (by her reaction) that she was truly innocent in this affair. However, you'll also notice that he pointed out to her that now she knew: she could no longer "play dumb". Trent knows that Daria despises hypocrisy and stupidity; that _is_ something that she would have trouble doing deliberately.
I'm not sure that Tom realizes that he's doing anything other than enjoying Daria's friendship.
At that point, I'm pretty sure that Daria didn't realize that she was doing anything other than enjoying Tom's friendship.
Remember, Daria's never been in this situation before. That's why Trent had to explain things to her.
A pun, you know. The ep's title was ostensibly about the fire at the Morgendorffers, but another kind of "fire" started at the Lanes.
It's sad to think that Mack and Jodie don't get to be together much because of Jodie's workload. I hope that they aren't going to break up.
Maybe. Don't underestimate Trent. Have you noticed that Mystik Spiral has actually been getting gigs and doing regular rehearsals lately? Starting around late Season 3 ... maybe Trent is really going to make something of himself? Daria's problem with him, if you recall, was his total laziness.
Hmm?
A very bad situation for Jane, considering that Tom isn't laughing much with _her_ any more.
Not much experience at it.
Jane knows what's happening. And now she realizes that Daria hasn't been making it happen. Which is worse, because it means that _Tom_ really likes spending time with Daria more than he does with Jane. Did you notice how _sad_ Jane looked when she realized that Tom had sought Daria out on purpose?
Perhaps not "guys" in general, but _Trent_ obviously did. And he looked jealous when he first noticed it.
Heh heh heh ... I think it was implied :)
It occurred to me when Jake and Helen got the phone call. But as soon as the scene switched to Quinn babbling on about Detective Fashion, it was obvious that nothing really bad had happened to her.
Bobby was good-looking, well-spoken, and in a position to get them things. By the way, the _really_ funny moment was when Quinn said "Oh, my God ... I almost went out with a ..." and you're expecting her to say "_criminal_", but instead she says "computer geek!"
Quinn's Sense of Reality needs a major tuneup. Or maybe the cable guy has to come around to turn it on. I'm not sure which :)
Both. I think that, even before "Jane's Addition", Trent deeply respected and even admired Daria. Daria has been growing in confidence since he first met her; and as she grows in confidence, she also grows in charisma. Trent is smart enough to realize that Daria is both smarter and stronger-willed than he is, and I think that's why he hasn't really pursued her: he doesn't think he's good enough for her.
Trent was a bit angry at Daria at first, I think, when he feared that she was deliberately trying to take Tom away from Jane. That, coupled with his own attraction to Daria, was why he (uncharacteristically) confronted her (Trent is normally very mellow).
When he realized that Daria was truly innocent in this, he stopped being angry ... but I think it made him even more attracted to her ... and sad, because he probably now sees it as likely that he's going to lose her to someone else (maybe not Tom, but whoever more on her level happens to appreciate her). He's also sad at the thought that Jane will lose Tom.
Which, note, is a lot of Jane and Daria's friendship, too. Jane's probably never had a boyfriend, or even many _friends_, before: maybe Jane was just relating to him like she always did to Daria; that's how Jane acts towards a "friend". Remember, Jane is _very_ caught up in her art.
It would be nice to see Trent make something of himself, and win Daria's respect and love.
On 27 Jul 2000 04:04:53 GMT, [email] (JoJo) wrote:
Oh, boy. I knew it wouldn't take long for the Daria/Trent shippers to come out of the woodwork and start spinning things as fast and furious as possible. :-)
Daria/Trent (what there was of it) is over. Done. Finito. Time to move on.
Nothing to be sorry about, it was a very well done and dramatic ep that would've made me run straight to the keyboard if it wasn't so late by the time I watched it.
Anger and angst abound all throughout this one. Just for clarification, even though I'd like to see Daria/Tom together, there's nothing definite yet. Daria feels something, but is not sure of what it is. It could very well be feelings for Tom that were coming up from their previously subconcious depths. She been ignoring and fighting them for awhile now, so when they come into the light something definitely doesn't feel right. Trent's advice put Daria into a state of mind she's never been to before, (sure she's had the crush, but this is much more, this is someone who is definitely someone she can enjoy on her level, in Tom) a state of complete confusion of her emotions, Jane and Tom don't appear to be compatible with each other and he and Daria do. Yet she's loyal to Jane as well, that conversation proved that, even though Jane had been avoiding her and somewhat colder around her, they went through this before in reverse when Tom first came onto the scene. Jane's point of realization wanted to make me reach through the TV screen and hug her, you have to feel sorry for her, prolly her first serious relationship in her whole life and her boyfriend seems smitten more or at least mre compatible with her best friend, 3rd wheel in her own relationship, there is no better way to describe how she feels at this point in time. As for Tom, he definitely likes Daria now as a friend, but does he like her in that way? It appears so, but the only way we'll know for absolutely sure is if he comes out and says it, until then, it appears so, but it isn't substantiated as of yet.
At that last scene, I was looking for that to be continued sign, I didn't want this one to end right there, Daria looked copletely lost, I kept telling myself you can't end it here, you just can't! Alas, it did, so we are left to ponder for another week. What will happen, Will Daria admit something for Tom, will Jane just step aside, will Daria just step aside? Only two things we know for sure, the Trent/Daria love relationship is dead, they're just good friends now, #2 they've put a new spin of possibilities out there for #413 and the movie, both of which should be excellent. I can't wait.