Stacy's summer (IIFY SPOILER!)

SPOILER FOR "IS IT FALL YET" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I re-watched "Is It Fall Yet" recently and I noticed something interesting. While David angrily walks out on Sandi and Tiffany, he did not do so on Stacy. When Stacy had her pathetic outburst, she ran away from the table, but David remained seated, looking rather thoughtful and patient.

IS IT POSSIBLE STACY STUCK OUT THE TUTORING SESSIONS ALL SUMMER???

Later, in the clothing store, Stacy describes David as "geeky", but does that mean she quit? Not necessarily. For one thing, she's just automatically agreeing with Sandi, and is afraid to admit to Sandi she's still being tutored. Also, she may not have a crush on David like Quinn does, and really does think him geeky - but does that mean she quit? Or that David dropped her?

Stacy also looks rather tense in the scene where Quinn answers the "Manifest Destiny" question. As though - Stacy could have answered it herself? But didn't yet dare to do so in front of Sandi? Hmmm?

Any thoughts?

Strange. I thought he looked disappointed and frustrated.

I doubt it. At one point in the movie David asks Quinn why she's hanging out with "those losers." He didn't say why Quinn and Stacy were hanging out with those losers- he's lumped in Stacy with the other two. And remember that Stacy freaked out that Sandi and Tiffany had quit David without her. So I don't see her staying.

Stacy doesn't have a backbone. We've seen that in the past.So agreeing with Sandi is second nature to her, hence the sequence in the clothing store. Of course it's possible that in the little time David was tutoring her Stacy could have learned something; maybe she knew the answer but was afraid to say it. As Quinn's conscience starts to grow how will this affect Stacy?

Jeff M.

In article ,

ran

Well, of course. But he didn't get mad or walk away. And he DID look thoughtful.

hanging out

out with

that Stacy

don't see

Did he specify three of them? And perhaps Stacy wasn't progressing nearly as well as Quinn?

Perhaps Stacy made David promise not to tell the others she was still being tutored?

I thought it curious that we SAW David storm away angry at Sandi and Tiffany - but not at Stacy. He remained seated - and not obviously angry. It's a break in the the symmetry of the three scenes with Sandi, Tiffany and Stacy - and it might mean something.

answered

agreeing with

store. Of

Stacy could

say it. As

M Man writes:

I thought he looked more sad than thoughtful. And didn't Stacy run away -- presumably to call Sandi and make sure she wasn't being 'cut out' -- leaving him sitting there? I just assumed that he got up and left off-camera at that point. It *has* been a while since I've seen it, though.

I can't see Stacy *making* anyone do anything. I also can't see her thinking she could hide something like that from Sandi.

Aaron

"M Man" wrote in message news:92q4or$4r$[email]...

Are you kidding? That little girl is spineless! <Beat> Okay, maybe I'm being a little harsh. Perhaps she's really, in the immortal words of an old "90s" song, "just a sucka with no self esteem" It would make another nice twist to the series though, as though we haven't had a few already. <BG>

Since Quinn is now showing signs of independence why not Stacey? Except she's doing it in secret. Kind of working her way up to it as it were. If you're wrong it would make a damn good fan-fic though.

In article , "Firah" wrote:

ran

Like Quinn is shallow and Jake is humorless? In IIFY, some people DID change a bit. Even DeMartino mellowed!

Maybe the whole summer is a stretch - but Stacy did not cause David to walk out in anger. He even thought she was trying to learn. If they were talking about Reconstruction, can we assume they successfully got through the Civil War? I can't believe David would just start with Reconstruction - they must have had a session or two already.

immortal

haven't

just

mean

answered

Something's going to happen with the Fashion Club in season 5. That "pedagogue" remark by Quinn was a shot across Sandi's bow.

What happens to Stacy if Sandi and Quinn "go to war"?

Or maybe Quinn will get fed up with the Fashion Club and see it for the backbiting, shallow, poisonous, little clique it's always been and walk away.

Regardless of what the rest of the Fashion Club's world view is (Sandy!), Quinn is the major reason why the Fashion Club enjoys any popularity at all.

Sandy knows this, deep down in that little marble sized chunk of glacier ice she calls a heart , and hates her for it.

If Quinn quits or starts her own clique, the rest of the Fashion Club will be out in the cold, socially.

It could get ugly. Sandy will not go out without a fight. Character and reputation are very easy targets and Sandy will do it.

Sandy is one of those people you don't want as an enemy.

She's damn good at it.

Mother has taught her well...

In article , "Firah" wrote:

the

walk

(Sandy!),

at all.

That seems to be true. For example, in "Daria Dance Party", Sandi's rival party was a complete failure.

Although the Fashion Club apparently existed before Quinn came to Lawndale.

glacier ice

will

Something like that's going to happen. Quinn has changed too much to go on just as before.

and

If she goes after Quinn this way, I think she'll have to confront Daria, too.

Look back at some of the episodes where Sandi talks to Daria - The Misery Chick, The New Kid, Just Add Water. Daria scares the hell out of Sandi, because she doesn't "play the game" by Sandi's rules.

Damn good at being an enemy, but absolutely unable to be a friend.

But was the Fashion Club really that popular? I don't think so...except in their own minds.

And she has very good reason to fear Daria. When Daria put's her mind to it she can be just as implacable an enemy as Sandy or Mrs Griffin. (See "Sealed With A Kick" the Daria pilot episode) Daria would DESTROY Sandy, if it came down to it!

And she'd never see it coming!

Blood is thicker than water.

Daria loves her little sister. Enough to put up with the reprehensible way that Quinn's been treating her at Lawndale from Day One.

Claiming Daria's just a girl that lives with her AND just happens to have the same last name? With Daria going along with it?

That's unconditional love. Even it if doesn't seem like it.

I'm not saying that Quinn and Daria have had the best relationship. That's been attested to in both "The Daria Diaries" and "The Daria Database" They have been rivals since the cradle. But that's between the two of them.

However, if an outsider goes after one, or the other, they will join forces...and God help the poor fool(s).

Don't mess with the Sisters Morgendorffer !

We all agree that Sandy is a Bi-yatch. No doubt about it!

There are a lot of "Sandy's" in the world. Sometimes, be it professionally or socially, you might be forced to interact with them. Just make sure to keep them at arms length, and watch your back!

In article , "Firah" wrote:

for

popularity

so...except in

Yeah, I think the Daria Dance Party incident proved that beyond doubt. They (minus Quinn) had to use big-screen football to lure half-a-dozen guys to Sandi's house. Then the guys ditched the girls just when the girls got into their bikinis and invited the guys into a hot tub.

Yeah. Real popular.

Club

to

Character

out

to it

(See "Sealed

reprehensible way

have

That's

They

On top of which, Quinn ditching the Fashion Club (especially Sandi) would surely meet with Daria's wholehearted approval.

professionally

sure to

And if she doesn't watch her back, don't pass up the opportunity!

I agree that Daria's problem has never been so much feeling for her loved ones as expressing it and connecting with those loved ones (she also has blocks against allowing herself to feel loved, which is going to be a MAJOR issue as her relationship with Tom Sloan deepens).

But I have to wonder, mightn't Quinn dropping som of the trappings of popularity become a case, for Daria, of Be Careful What You Wish For? On the surface, Daria would be the first to agree that this would be a good thing. But throughout the show -- and as shown in "The Daria Diaries" -- much of Daria's identity has been shaped by her adversarial relationship with her sister. She had at least the pride and self-respect that comes of meeting certain standards of what SHE felt were truely important. If Quinn does quit the Fashon Club, I've no doubt that the two of them together could stand up to anything they've a mind to. And I agree, they would bond together against a common foe and crush her utterly, and that would [will] be gratifying to see. But FIRST, Daria would have to acknowledge Quinn as someone worthy of her respect, possibly even as an equal, and that's going to call for some MAJOR re-evaluation on Daria's part, and adjustment to a whole new paradigm in her worldview.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all. Such conflicts are the source of all truly great storytelling. It's what makes the whole plotline leading up to "Is It Fall Yet" and beyond so great. I'm just suggesting there's going to have to be more to it than "surely meet with Daria's wholehearted approval."

I can't believe I wrote all this instead of doing real work. I've got to get a life...

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

Pierces888 says:

You're right about the blocks she has in expressing and connecting with her loved ones (Jane being a major exception), and it'll definitely be a MAJOR issue concerning her relationship with Tom Sloane.

And Daria's going to have to REALLY revise her viewpoint about Quinn before she can actually see Quinn as somebody really worthy of respect. However, I do think she's been taking some steps -- small steps, but steps nonetheless -- toward connecting with Quinn, which is a step towards seeing Quinn as somebody worthy of respect. This is most notable in IIFY, as Daria tries to console Quinn and give her some advice after David told Quinn (rather bluntly) that he wasn't interested in her because he still saw her as shallow.

Belle Book

Remember in IIFY Tom told Daria twice that he liked her. But Daria was unable to reply in kind. We know she likes him. But not being able to express it or to let Tom in is going to cause troubles. How this all pans out is why I anxiously await this season to start.

Quinn as an equal would be difficult for Daria to swallow. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be difficult.

If Quinn does quit

I think that's one of the themes they'll be dealing with in the fifth season. The transformation of Daria's relationships with people; her sister, Tom, the people in her orbit, her parents, ect. all.

Of course.

Hey, you're not alone.

Jeff M.

In article ,

loved ones

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issue as

YES!!!

For? On the

thing.

much of

her

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to see.

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What I was referring to in my "wholehearted approval" statement was not quite as wide as the whole Daria-Quinn relationship. I was talking about the fact that Daria would be likely to come to Quinn's defense against Sandi, not MERELY because "blood is thicker .." but because Quinn would actually be doing something Daria truly approves of - ditching the FC.

Of course Daria may find adjusting to a "new Quinn" difficult. But the interesting thing is that Daria and Quinn are already more alike than they realize. Daria has the looks and skills to be socially popular but she hides it. Quinn has the mental capacity to be intelligent and deep, but she hides it. And they're both starting to realize what they're missing.

In IIFY Quinn, who's supposed to be shallow, looks at her PSTATS scores and realizes how much better she could be (both in absolute terms and relative to the rest of the FC). Daria, who is supposed to be antisocial, is disturbed that her classmates take Tom for her brother (surely Daria isn't dating!) and that Tom hasn't told his family about her.

As for "seeing Quinn as an equal", I'm not sure that's true. Probably Quinn is not fully as intelligent as Daria. And Daria's relationship with Tom is already deeper than any Quinn has ever had. More likely Daria will finally be what Quinn may really want anyway - not an equal, but a big sister to look up to.

got to get a

M Man said:

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Quinn is charismatic because there's a genuine core of niceness there. Sandi fails to be charismatic because there isn't.

Oh yes. Sandi can intimidate most people by threatening their social status -- but the only people whose good opinion Daria really values (aside from Quinn -- who is fundamentally loyal to Daria at a level beyond mere friendship) -- Tom, Jane, and Trent -- don't give a damn about Sandi's self-proclaimed "status" or what Sandi thinks of Daria.

In article ,

there. Sandi

status --

from Quinn --

friendship) -- Tom,

proclaimed "status" or

But is Sandi really that threatening to "most" people? Or does she just seem like a big fish because she swims in such a small puddle (the Fashion Club)? Offhand, the only person outside the Fashion Club to be intimidated by Sandi, that I can recall, was Val-as-in-Val, who changed clothes when Sandi haughtily told her not to mix primary colors in the daytime.

Is she at all intimidating to Jodie, Mack, Kevin, Brittany? Anyone?

war. On

too

M Man said:

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She's _nasty_ -- nastiness is threatening to most people. Spot on about the "big fish / small puddle", though, the only people who really worry about her are the FC and those who want to join or date them.

Jodie and Mack probably barely notice her existence, and would be unimpressed by her if they did. Kevin and Brittany swim in a different "puddle" (and a more important one at that!) Also, all four persons mentioned are _older_ -- they're in _Daria's_ grade.

In article ,

(the

Probably why the boys at Sandi's rival party in "Daria Dance Party" decided to sneak away quietly, but ....

about her

... they wouldn't have left at all if they thought Sandi could get them ostracized or anything like that.

unimpressed

(and a more

-- they're

war. On

too

In article , M Man wrote:

The M Man is right. Sandi does NOT have serious influence at Lawndale High. She's too complete an asshole to be popular.

I have my own opinion of why Quinn has stayed in FC this long. She genuinely likes Stacey and Tiffany, and stays in FC to hang with them. Hanging with the detestable Sandi is the price she pays for doing that. Quinn may privately planning to put up with Sandi until the four of them graduate and go their separate ways. Then she can keep in touch with the other two and never phone Sandi again if she likes.

HS graduation brings down the curtain on many of a teenager's alliances, in my experience.

Steve Cross

Steve Cross said:

I'd definitely agree with the assessment of Sandi's popularity. She's probably popular only in her own circle -- and only in her own mind, of course.

I don't know if Quinn genuinely likes Tiffany or not. It's hard to genuinely like someone who's THAT slow -- at least, in my opinion. However, I do agree that Quinn genuinely likes Stacy and probably stays in the Fashion Club to hang out with Stacy.

Belle Book

In article ,

wrote:

(the

to be

changed

the

Lawndale High.

genuinely

with the

privately

their

never phone

alliances, in

She's probably

genuinely

do agree

Club to hang

Definitely agree about Tiffany. Even in her shallowest moments, Quinn's way too deep for Tiffany.

But does Quinn really KNOW Stacy? She probably doesn't see her outside the Fashion Club. They all seem to hang out together, under Sandi's thumb.

It would be nice to see Stacy leave the FC along with Quinn.

M Man wrote: *newsflash: you MUST put spoiler space!*

I seriously doubt anyone *really* knows Stacy. She's probably got so much fear in her that she probably doesn't let anyone *really* know her. Her parents perhaps excepted, but I doubt it. Anyone that insecure would probably have really demanding parents who would rather believe an image of their children instead of the actual children themselves.

*shrugs* Or maybe I'm incorporating a bit o' fanfic here (i.e. "A Day in the Life of Stacy").

It would be a beautiful day if there *were* no FC, but I don't think that'll happen until the last ep. Somehow I don't see a show working out quite the way it does without the antagonistic nature of the FC.

*gasp*... I talked about... I talked about... wow.

LI (trying to find more on-topic stuff to talk about)

[email] (Belle Book) writes:

I think it's more that she thinks that's what's expected of her. Remember the episode where Quinn has to find someone to stay the night with? She has a fight with Sandy, Tiffany bores her to death, but Stacy creeps her out with her clinging personality -- enough to drive her to Jane's house, of all places. If Quinn likes (rather than pities) Stacy, it must have developed since then.

Aaron

Aaron Baugher writes:

Unfortunately, I don't think I saw that episode, not if it was in Season 2 or Season 1. I've seen all of the Season 3 episodes, and all but one of the Season 4 episodes (the one being "Partner's Complaint, and I don't think the Fashion Club had a major role to play in that episode), but I've only seen one episode from Season 2 -- "The Daria Hunter" -- and NONE of the episodes of Season 1. If I had, I would've remembered that part.

Belle Book

In article ,

I think someone else recently pointed this out (sorry I couldn't find the reference) but Quinn did invite Stacy to come over when Helen said Quinn and Daria could each invite one overnight guest in "Of Human Bonding". I had forgotten about that.

M Man said:

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We got to see the ideals that originally animated DiMartino to become a teacher, rather than something more financially renumerative.

That's true, it does logically imply they were getting well into the material.

Or he started with the sophomore year curriculum. Anecdotally, in the local high school here, freshman U.S. history ends with the Civil War, sophomore U.S. history starts with Reconstruction.

Peace Kevin

In article ,

got

local

sophomore

OK. Seems a curious way to divide things up. Why not end freshman year with the Hayes-Tilden election (the settlement of which effectively ended Reconstruction)? Are they trying to keep the freshmen in suspense? If so, why not end freshman year with the beginning of Pickett's Charge and have them go off for the summer thinking the South won and come back to a big surprise in the fall?

<Jake> The South won????

</Jake>

<Helen> Jake, that was a JOKE!

</Helen>

:-)  :-)  :-)

Seriously, though, I don't think David would ASSUME any of the girls had a firm grasp of the Civil War and would thoroughly review it. In fact, I think we can assume from Quinn's confident answer to DeMartino's Manifest Destiny question that David covered pre-Civil War history as well.

M Man said:

Well, he'd have very good reason to NOT assume any of the girls had a firm grasp of the Civil War. I suspect in his first meeting with anyone he was tutoring, he'd find out the limits (or extent) of their knowledge. Certainly he did that with Quinn. And with the other three, he probably found out in his first meetings with them how well-versed they were in history, literature, whatever.

He certainly covered pre-Civil War history with Quinn. We don't know how much pre-Civil War history he covered with the others, but I suspect that in the cases of Sandi and Tiffany, probably very little. I don't know about Stacy.

Belle Book

In article ,

successfully

with

the

War

firm

he was

Certainly

out in his

literature,

how much

in the

Stacy.

I'd have to believe the sessions with Sandi and Tiffany were the only ones with each girl.

I agree with you and with everyone else who's assumed this. I assume that Tiffany probably forced David to quit because her shallow, fashion-addled brain was too overloaded to absorb the information he was trying to tutor her, and that Sandi probably quit herself because she found it "in vogue" to be absolutely ignorant about subjects like history, thinking that the only subject of value would be fashion.

Or maybe she scared David off because she's such a stupid bitch (as opposed to a heartless bitch, who wouldn't even want to be in a FC, let alone be the *president* of such).

LI (uh, if the above makes any sense in the morning, I'll be happy)

M Man writes:

So would I, quite frankly.

Belle Book

In article ,

I believe so. David says as much while talking to Stacy. Something like "At least you're trying, unlike Sandi and Tiffany, whom I had to drop"

A.J.

That's really quite odd, in my eyes -- the way they did it at both my high schools (one in Washington and one in California) was to have some sort of geography type thing in freshman year, world history in sophomore year, and US history in the junior year. I had US history in 8th grade, as well, so it made sense with the curriculum I'd had. So anyway- point being (to bring this back on topic, however odd that may sound ;-) ) is that unless we know what Lawndale's district curriculum setup is, there's no way of telling how it's divided up. Most likely, it just sounded good to the writers and they didn't worry about these particular details. ;-) (But that's no fun for us to pick apart!)

On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:38:19 GMT, M Man wrote:

It doesn't seem that way, at least not to me. After all, David did seem to lump Stacy in with Sandi and Tiffany when he asked Quinn why she continued to hang around with "those losers." But, it *is* good fanfic fodder. After all, fanfic is a "what if?" genre already, and this would seem to be perfect for it.

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
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M Man said:

While it's possible Stacy stuck with the tutoring sessions all summer, I doubt it, given her relative lack of backbone. She probably quit -- if not immediately after that session, then not long afterward. Still, she may have learned something from the experience -- not much, but something. And if she sees Quinn learning to stand up for herself, maybe she'll eventually get the courage to do so herself -- though that won't be for a long time, if ever.

Belle Book

In article ,

As much as I'd like to say yes, probably not. One, she can't stand up to Sandi, remember the remark in "Groped by an Angel" Sandi says: Stacy, you were WHAT? in reference to Stacy actually having a thought in her head. Two, she doesn't seem the type who could hold a secret that dangerous to her social standing for that long, she'd have to tell someone, and if it got back to Sandi, see number one.

Though I don't doubt she leaned from whatever time he was there, I think they stopped after that session..

I just don't see her as the type who could hold in a secret like that for very long and the consequences to her would be horrible for her, as much as I'd rather she stuck with him, I doubt she did.

I'll have to look at this again to see for myself. Until then, good theory, but unlikely.

A.J.

M Man said:

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It's possible -- it's obvious that David basically liked Stacy, and had a higher opinion of her than he did of Sandi or Tiffany. The sad irony here is that Stacy didn't grasp this -- her self-concept is so low and her worship of Sandi so overwhelming that it would never occur to her that she might be Sandi's superior in _anyone's_ eyes.

You do have a point there. We don't know _for sure_ that Sandi gave up on the tutoring.

In article ,

ran

had a

here is

worship of

be

up on the

The starting point for my original comment, which I probably didn't make very clear, was the break in parallelism. Sandi and Tiffany are hopeless as tutoring subjects - Stacy shows some promise. David storms out on Sandi and Tiffany - we don't see him do that on Stacy.

And I'm guessing this is significant.

war. On

too

M Man says:

You're right about Sandi and Tiffany being hopeless as tutoring subjects! Perhaps the only person as dumb as Tiffany is Kevin! As for Sandi, she's too obssessed with fashion and popularity to understand the value of her mind. She's not as dumb as Tiffany is -- she just doesn't use her mind properly. Same goes for Quinn, but at least QUINN realized she didn't use her mind properly.

As for Stacy, you're also right about her showing some promise and not seeing David storm out on her. However, one reason why we don't see David storm out on Stacy is because she ran out of the room. Stacy would probably be a fine student -- if she got enough of a backbone that she would be able to stand up for herself and make herself into a good student.

Belle Book