*Pierce Me*

PIERCE ME, certainly was a radical departure from every other Daria episode this season. It showed us a side of Daria that we�ve never seen before. That she�s not always the cool and calculating Morgandorffer sister, that she�s wholly capable of behaving rash and impetuously (stupidly?). Behind that carefully crafted fa�ade of wry cynicism, rest assured, Daria�s female hormones are raging.

The show has been hinting repeatedly about Daria�s huge crush on Trent. This week they didn�t so much as hint, as they did beat the audience over the head. Its essential to understand the well-spring from which this drama flows: Trent doesn�t have a clue. Trent likes Daria, he really does, but she�s sixteen, and she�s Jane�s best friend. The writers of Daria understand that as a dramatic device, the Daria�Trent relationship remains more dynamic unconsummated. Thus Trent remains oblivious* to Daria�s signals. This pushes Daria to abandon her normal good judgment, and employ increasingly desperate measures to impress him, culminating in the decision to get her navel pierced.

I have certain misgivings about the episode. For Daria to get her navel pierced seemed like a startling departure from her character. Perhaps the writers of the episode intended to shock. To demonstrate in no uncertain terms the height, width, and breadth of Daria�s feelings for Trent. For Daria to have her navel pierced was unquestionably more unexpected than if she�d simply hopped in the sack, and surely less drastic than getting her uvula (sic) pierced.

The telephone scene was particularly well crafted and true to those awkward little moments in life we�ve all experienced. The expression on Jane�s face when she suddenly came to the realization that Daria was head over heals in love with her brother was worth the price of admission.

There was a lot of other good stuff in this episode. Trent has a definite social ineptitude when dealing with the adult world around him. Part of his behavior is a carefully crafted pose and part of his demeanor stems from his narcoleptic core values. It was especially amusing to see Trent, Helen and Jake all sitting in the same room and carrying on what appeared to all involved to be a conversation, while none of them had even the slightest idea what the other was saying.

�S. Mc Allister

* Jane already warned Daria that Trent was above all else: oblivious (in ROAD WORRIERS).

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:35:38 -0400, Steven McAllister wrote:

Clue? Oh yeah, Trent has plenty of clues. He's interested, make no mistake. It's all over the place in this episode. He *did* kiss that one ex-girlfriend/bandmate of his, but it was more friendly than anything else.

It was all over the place. Trent is subtlely looking to mold Daria more into his perfect alt-rock girl, although it seems he is interested in her as she is regardless of whether she becomes that or not.

I think the one who is oblivious is you, Mr. McAllister. ;-) You have your thesis that Daria's "crush" on Trent is one-sided. Any behavior on Trent's part that contradicts your thesis is ignored. It seems like Trent's hormones have been stirred, too.

It was Trent who was pushing her...he thought it would look "hot" if Daria had her navel pierced. Did you notice the way he held her hand? That isn't "here, hold my hand and squeeze" that a platonic friend would do...he held her hand in both of his and stroked it gently.

I agree, it would be a tragedy for the show if Trent and Daria did The Dirty Deed. I suspect if "Daria" continues for a third season the chemistry between the two will bubble along, with plenty of dramatic bumps along the way. Trent might get interesed in another girl, or he'll do something else to piss Daria off and that will be one or two episodes.

The way to end off the series would be for Trent and Daria to finally get laid. It would have to be the *last episode* because those two as cooing lovebirds ala Kevin and Brittany would make the series a joke.

Trent might be oblivious to the world around him, particularly when it is at odds with his musical pursuits, but he's not oblivious about Daria. If he was oblivious, why the hell would he sneak around to find out what was going on with Daria towards the end?

BTW anyone know the age diff between Trent and Daria? I figure him for 18-20...what do y'all think?

--.\\<-H--

<<BTW anyone know the age diff between Trent and Daria? I figure him for 18-20...what do y'all think?>>

It was stated on D-day that Trent is 21, and Daria is 16

My mom and I were watching last night and Quinn said "Damm right!" and Helen (her mom) didn't say anything. My mom turned up her nose and said "How old is she?!" I told her that she had to be at least 16 or 17 and because Daria was 18 and had been looking at collages. I guess I was wrong.

David

<<My mom and I were watching last night and Quinn said "Damm right!" and Helen (her mom) didn't say anything. My mom turned up her nose and said "How old is she?!" I told her that she had to be at least 16 or 17 and because Daria was 18 and had been looking at collages. I guess I was wrong.

David>>

Being 16 would make Daria a sophomor or a Junior, the ideal time to be looking into colleges. Quinn is 14 and 1/2, she is a Freshmen, it has been stated on more than one occasion.

In article , [email] (Jsd19) wrote:

Don't count on it...I graduated from high school just after my 16th birthday.

It would be *in character* for Daria to have skipped a grade or two.

-TDH

In article , [email] (Skipper) wrote:

In California (and I'm not saying Lawndale is in CA, folks...I just saw "Malled" again today and I stand by my assertion that Lawndale is either a tony suburb of Chicago, like Evanston, or a tony Connecticut bedroom community) you can test out at 16. That's what I did. Went directly to Junior College. No regrets.

I suspect that Daria would do the same if the option was open to her.

--.\\<-H--

This EPISODE RULED!!! (imho) I myself do not care for piercing, but I thought it was cool the way Daria "joined the human race" like Jane said by "doing it for a guy." I think most of us have done things we normally would not because of a possible romantic interest. In regards to it "being out of character", even if it IS out of character for Daria, don't most people (even cartoons) do things out of character sometimes???

I loved Daria's facial expressions in this ep!! Her "eyebrows" and eyes were super cool when she smiled, it almost looked like Daria was FLIRTING!!!! :) (Especially during her daydream sequence close-up!)

The thing with Trent was cool for the most part, but I too hope the writers don't overdo a good thing. Didn't care much for Quinn's story line in the show, starting to get tired of Quinn getting so much airtime. I think the other kids at the school, and the teachers, are much funnier. (The Dude with EYE cracks me up to no end!!!)

All in All a super terrific Daria Ep with lots of great satire and humor. SIGN ME UP!!!

--Marc

Marc S. Toft wrote:

Glad to! Just send your check or money order for a one-year subscription to me. It costs just $59.95 per year. Best price on this newsgroup! :)

In article , [email] wrote:

Marc,

Just this one time I will offer it up for $59.90 just to beat out Joe. But dont tell anyone what a great offer I am givin ya, I wont be able to make the mortgage...

meRe

[email] wrote:

No, Marc! I've got the best deal! Sign up with me by Sunday and I'll LOWER the price to $54.95 PLUS I'll give you an extra two weeks FREE! Not only that, I'll deliver the goods PERSONALLY!

Top THAT, meRe!

Jeg7777 wrote:

I'll do all that, AND I will throw in this GREAT low-fat electric cooking skillet at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE! You can make easy, healthy cuisine in minutes, right on your countertop!

Jessica :-)

In article , [email] wrote:

For just $20, I'll tell you to find another way to feel.

Hm...intereseting you mention. See, I'm leaning toward the Chicago idea too. When Daria was in B&B, she went to Highland High School. In real life, there is a Highland High School not more than a half hour from Chicago (of course, I guess it depends on how fast you drive). Anyway, the family moved to Lawndale for the better, right? So, I'm thinking that Lawndale is one of those sort-of-posh suburbs of Chicago.

Ericka

In article ,

Please excuse the following ramble:

It's an interesting idea, but I tend to think that Lawndale's a bit further out in the sticks, if you will remember that to get to the concert in "Road Worrier," they spent a LOT of time on rural-ish roads. Maybe not-too-rural Indiana-- that way it'd be close to "Leeville," which could be in KY (it was a day trip for them) -- but 100 miles away from "Mall of the Millenium, which could be in a suburb of Chicago (I lived in Schaumburg, IL a long time ago--do they still have that huge mall there?). But, if it happened in IN, they'd not care too much about football-- they're more the basketball fans there, right?

Of course, similar arguments could be made for OH, PA, MD, DE, and even NJ (yes, it could work, although nobody ever mentions what turnpike exit they live near. <g>) (and yes, I lived in NJ for a few years, too.) I seem to remember some pretty darn big malls in NJ, and you're even close to "The Great White Shark"-- I mean, where else but near the ocean would anyone have such an attraction? (I also remember seeing a few huge sharks caught off of Long Island.) Hmmm, now that I think about it...maybe NJ makes even more sense... Oh, well, that's the fun of speculation. I'd bet that none of the creative forces behind the show know or care where Lawndale really is, but it is kinda fun to speculate.

Rich.

Mr. O: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality! Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames? Mr. O: The coffeehouse!

I've in NJ my entire life(unfortunately), and I sincerely doubt Lawndale would be in NJ. It's too nice of a town. Besides, the malls here aren't large enough to be 'the world's second or third largest mall."

I think Lawndale would be located in Virginia, because of the accents in "I Don't", the Mall of the Millenium(In Virginia, there's this mall called The Potomac Mills....it's HUGE.), and because of the rural-ish roads, as you metioned.

Maybe I am wrong here but this is a cartoon and it is most likely a VERY made up city that exists NOWHERE? It seems likely to me that they just took several cities and mixed them to make the cartoon the easiest to write for?

meRe

In article ,

[email] wrote in message ...

made

Hahaha!!!! Of course, you're right. "Just repeat to yourself, 'It's just a show, I should really just relax...'"

That said, I agreed (a long time ago, when this thread first showed up on PD) that it's probably set in fictitious suburban MD/northern VA. We had narrowed it down using *way* too many refrences to *way* too many shows.

In article , [email] wrote:

I think that's the point, Mike.

Daria's family were living there, probably because Helen had a big client in TX and had to be close. It was probably very temporary. None of them have Texas accents or seem particularly Texan. I've got friends from there...it's way more subtle than cowboy boots and hats, both of which my friend detests.

I am really, really leaning towards Lawndale, CT now. Lawndale is tony enough to be a Connecticut bedroom community. 100 miles away from CT would put you in Northern NJ, where a huge mall like The Mall of the Millenium would not be out of place. In "Road Worrier" they could have been traveling through Upstate NY. Plenty of farmland there.

Lawndale, CT, USA. It's not gospel but it makes sense.

--.\\<-H--

Just out of pure frivolity, I'd like to point out that Beavis & Butthead was only occasionally set in Texas. At least twice, it was set in San Diego, CA (where Mike Judge went to college). I'm thinking specifically of an episode where Tijuana was mentioned.

Of course, this is rampantly off-topic, but I missed this Monday's episode, and I felt left out.

-Monty

In article , [email] (Monty Ashley) wrote:

There's a bigger border with Mexico in Texas than in CA.

That episode "Down Mexico Way" did not mention Tijuana at all. It could have been a town like Juarez which is on the Tex-Mex border.

Mike Judge has made it clear that B&B was set in Highland, TX, USA.

I might add that Arlen is probably not too far away from Highland. On more than one occasion people have remarked about the possibility that Hank Hill is related to Tom Anderson.

--.\\<-H--

Michelle Klein-Hass wrote in message ...

of

A bit of evidence to support that from "The Daria Diaries". I quote:

"Quinn had filled the car trunk and half the back seat with wardrobe overflow, so I had to ride in the moving van."

I could see Jake and Helen (grudgingly) letting Daria follow in the moving van for a relatively short journey to the new house. Certainly not for any sort of longer haul. Based on this, I'd say Lawndale is no more than a few drive from Highland. A day tops.

I don't think she was driving NVRaptor wrote in article ...

moving

any

few

If it was in CT they'd have snow. Not all Texans have accents.

aeroplane wrote:

Who knows? It may still be spring or fall there. Episodes with snow might happen in the future. Daria ain't South Park, ya know. ;-)

Jessica :-)

<<Daria ain't South Park, ya know. ;-)>>

Thank God for that!!!!

In article , [email] (Jsd19) wrote:

Seconded.

--.\\<-H--

I sort-of enjoy watching South Park. Mostly I just like to see how much they get away with. ("I haven't seen a beating like that since Rodney King!")

Shadowcloak [email] http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Must... stick... head... cold... water..." - Jane Lane

   Thirded (is that a word?).
        Jennifer

To reply, remove NOSPAM from email address.

<<Thirded (is that a word?).>>

If you're against South Park, we'll make it a word.

fourthed

J.R.J. wrote in article ...

,

Okay, I seem to be in a minority of one for defending South Park. I can see why you all hate it, I'm aware of how popular it is in the States. However, over here in England, it's relatively unknown (except for a quick wave of T-shirts the week it premiered on non-cable TV). Believe it or not, it's also more intelligent than most of our programming (three words - Men. Behaving. Badly.). British animation tends to be rather (read very) lowbrow, the finest example being Wallace and Gromitt, which gets the same exposure here that South Park gets over in your neck of the woods.

And that's my two cents.

Shadowcloak [email] http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Must... stick... head... cold... water..." - Jane Lane

<<British animation tends to be rather (read very) lowbrow, the finest example being Wallace and Gromitt, which gets the same exposure here that South Park gets over in your neck of the woods.>>

Wallace and Gromitt is so much better. At the very least they worked long and hard on the animation, which is something that the South Park people wouldn't know. Wallace and Gromitt gets a small exposure just like South Park does to over by you. I would personally like to see everyone walking around with shirts that say "Cracking Toast Gromitt!!" than "Oh My God they Killed Kenny"!!!

[email] (Jsd19) writes:

Hunh. Around here, it's about a 1:1 ratio. I love both Wallace and Grommet and South Park; there are lots of "Cracking Toast, Gromeett" and "Not even Wensleydale?" t-shirts around here.

• Ian

[email] (Xiphias Gladius) writes:

You have just given me a very scary image... "Cheezy poufs, Gromit! We should go where there's Cheezy poufs!" "Cracking Anal Probe, Kenny!" "Oh my god! They killed the penguin! You bastards!"

In article , [email] (Elisabeth Anne Riba) wrote:

ROTFLMAO!!!

--.\\<-H--

On 6 Aug 1998 18:48:42 GMT, [email] (Shadoc64) wrote:

ok time for the dogman to stop lurking. i find nothing wrong with liking both daria and south park. yes south park is not cerebral humor, but who amongst hasnt read a trashy novel or two. it is all good reading classics but it is still fun to grab the weekly world news off the rack and wallow in the mud sometimes. and i agree with susan, i like the character development that daria has taken lately. you might find that people that are that sarcastic and cynical are so because they are more sensitive and they keep people from getting too close as not to get hurt. at least that is what my counselor tells me.

Dogbert

Actually, I just wanted to say a word like "fourthed". I don't really have a problem with South Park, it can be pretty funny. It's just that South Park vs. Daria is like Romance Novel vs. great literature. They are both entertaining in their own way.

Shadoc64 wrote in article ...

see why

over

T-shirts

Badly.).

example

Park

In article ,

I'll side with VA, because ancient, colonial-type colleges like Middleton are a dime-a-dozen (If only...) here. I'm not saying there is an actual "Lawndale" here, because I don't think Lawndale is supposed to be a specific town, but it could be in a general location.

Insert Jake voice: Dammit!! I didn't even want to get INTO this debate!

It's in a suburb of Minneapolis.

-Mindy

Daria: I just need to go to the bathroom... Jane: Good idea. Check your lack of makeup.

In article , [email] wrote:

Like I said...Lawndale CT or Lawndale IL. There are huge malls in Wisconsin and also in NJ. Roughly 100 miles from either theoretical city.

And Highland has been definitively established as being in Texas, probably in close proximity to Arlen, TX.

Take care,
--.\\<-H--

I don't know if there is a high school, but in New York, there is a town called "Highland". I think it is near Elmsford or Hawthorne. I don't think B&B was based there, though.

As for Lawndale, I have no clue where there is one or what it is based on. Maybe California, because of the exclusive fashion scene, but I am judging blindly, being that I have never been to California. ~Charlotte~

In article ,

Nope. If I recall, Mike Judge made it pretty explicit (if not on the show itself, then in interviews) that Highland was in Texas... Which explains why Daria was always seen by herself in the old B&Bs - if she's out of place at Lawndale, imagine how she'd be in the Lone Star State!

• Cappadocius

Um..just a question..didn't Daria were black and orange on B&B? I only saw on B&B once and I have a vauge memory.

David

Actually, I think she wore black and red. I'm not too sure on that one, though. ~Charlotte~

<<Actually, I think she wore black and red. I'm not too sure on that one, though. ~Charlotte~>>

You're both right. She wore orange earlier on in the series. She wore black and red later, including the last episode.

<<Don't count on it...I graduated from high school just after my 16th birthday.

It would be *in character* for Daria to have skipped a grade or two.>>

My Grandfather skipped a couple of grades. It's not all too common anymore.

In article ,

old

Sometimes it could even make you a senior(on some rare occassions) depending on the cutoff date when you start school. My birthday is near the end of January and the cutoff date was February 1st. The result: my 17th birthdaywas half way through my senior year of high school.

In article ,

Also, in "The Misery Chick" said he was a classmate of Tommy Sherman, who was still a college player (he didn't seem to be throwing around the type of money that an NFL player would have). This would put the two of them in the 18-22 range.

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:04:04 GMT, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

Or perhaps it's possible that you're reading *WAAAAY* too much into the "Daria/Trent thing"? :-) We're all susceptible to seeing exactly what we want to see if we want something to happen badly enough.

No bashing intended, just further food for thought...

Martin ---- Quinn: Daria, you can't leave me here with those, those yuppies! Daria: Yuppies are from the 80s. Quinn: So, what do you call people with funny outfits who talk about peace and love and stuff? Daria: Trekkies. ---- To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.

In article ,

Yeah. Accuse me of not being a romantic...but I'm not one. (Maybe that's why I'm 19 and *I've* never had a girlfriend ;) Now, crushes that never went anywhere...that's a different story.) Anyway, I'm getting to the point that I groan whenever I see another coy Daria/Trent episode. But a lot of other people seem to enjoy it so you won't hear about me writing scathing emails to MTV.

As for "Pierce Me". I've only watched it once, which is always a bad sign for me. After "See Jane Run", I rewound the tape directly to the beginning and watched it again. It wasn't badly written...I loved the phone call scene, but everything after Act I didn't register with me.

What bugged me was Trent. What a pest he was in this episode! Bugging Daria to get this piercing when she clearly didn't want it. I kept hoping for her to take it out AND lose the piercing hole intentionally but that only partially happened. I was a bit disappointed. I wouldn't have expected it out of Daria, but I also believe that in real time people often do things you wouldn't expect...or even like...especially for the sake of a crush. But, I don't think I'll ever be able to fully enjoy this episode, because it was just too weird for me.

Plus there was the Quinn thing, which was kind of a standard sitcom plot. "Daria" is 20 minutes long without commercials...WHY must ten of the twenty always be devoted to Quinn and her Fashion Club? I guess MTV is urging the Daria staff to win back that core Beavis and Butthead audience with plenty of exposure to cute chicks. More Jane, less Quinn, I say. At least Kevin wasn't in this episode, and Brittany sort of wasn't. And the episode had its moments but overall I don't think it'll ever be one of my favorites. (Some episodes grow on me with multiple viewings but I dunno...)

Taking cover...

--TICE

That is an awesome summary of the story!

In article ,

Illinois? I'm not too sure on that one... ~Charlotte~

In article ,

There's one in Ohio, Illinois, etc. There's a Springfield in pacticlly every state.

David

In article , [email] wrote:

Agh! This is a question that has been done to death in the Simpsons fan circles, so I'll give the most convincing arguments I've heard... 1)It has to be somewhere west of Mississippi because all the broadcast stations callsigns start with K. 2)It has to be somewhere coastal due to Springfield harbor. 3)It has to be somewhere where it can be fairly warm in February, but also get snow in the spring. (Lisa's Valentine for warm Feb., and Bart needing to graduate 4th grade for the snow) 4)And finally, it has to be somewhere with a desert just over the state line (since that's the description given by Homer and Marge as to where they got married)

The only states that fit these criteria AND have a Springfield in them are California and Texas, and since the only place in Texas that fits the criteria is East Texas and nobody in Springfield has that most memorable of accents, it's most likely somewhere in California. Ta da! The product of WAAAAY too much time, and having seen every episode two or more times...

                                             I have no life, no sir,
                                                 Cappadocius

When I saw the repeat of "Esteemsters", and Daria was talking about going to Pizza Forest to torture her family, Daria said, "Why don't we go to pizza forest like when we were kids." This means that a long time ago, the Morgandorfers used to live in the area, which would explain their lack of accents. Since they haven't lived in Texas all their lives, it's possible to not have an accent.

Prindora

Prindora wrote in message ...

to

area,

BZZZZT! (well, kinda.) Pizza Forest could also be a chain, akin to Chuck E. Cheese's in the real world. They could have them in Highland, too.

It's also possible for them not to have an accent even if they did. I've lived my entire life in the state of Alabama, and I have no discernible accent. People I meet don't believe that I'm from Alabama, but they can't tell from my voice exactly where it is I'm supposed to be from. Some people just don't have an accent, and it's possible the Morgendorffers are those kinda folks.

Also, if you really want to know why there's no TX/Southern/NY/any other kind of accent to any of the main character's voices: The folks at MTV don't want to regionalize the show. It's not supposed to be about a teenager from Texas, it's supposed to be about a teenager.

But Pizza Forrest could be like a Chuck E. Cheese of cartoon world; they could be scattered everywhere. Meaning maybe the Morgendorffers didn't move too far away from Highland. I don't know; I don't think I'm making much sense right now.

In article ,

But not if Pizza Forest is a national chain. I'm sure most people have a Chuck E. Cheeses somewhere around them (or Showbiz Pizza).

In article , [email] wrote:

There used to be a chain of ice-cream restaurants in the midwest called Farrell's, and their specialty was embarassing people on their birthdays. (*shudder*) They were exceedingly good at it. (*shudder*) I'm sure Pizza Forest would be just as bad. (If not worse.) (*shudder*)

Rich.

Jake: "The horror, the *horror*..."

[email] wrote:

The Scene: A rather large and VERY crowded (not to mention exceedingly noisy) restaurant called Johnny Garlic's.

The Time Frame: My birthday.

The Event: My lovely Grandma told the waitress chick it was my birthday. So right about at the end of dinner, a guy comes out of the kitchen at the *exact* opposite side of the big room carrying a one person custard cake thing with a candle on it. He starts singing in a true opera voice, the loudest I've ever heard off of a stage, the Happy Birthday song. IMMEDIATELY everyone in the room is SILENT, watching him. Of course he walks right to our table and gives the thing to me, every eye in the room right on our table. Then of course after he finishes the song everyone cheers and applauds, all the while still staring at me.

The custard was good, though.

In article ,

I went to Pizza hut on one of my birthdays (a tradition I've never been able to ditch) and although my parents were kind enough to not tell anyone it was my birthday there was a guy in a clown suit there named "Frumpy"whose purpose appeared to be to entertain small children by making balloon animals. As a reinforcement, I warned everyone (quietly, mind you) not to breathe a word about birthdays while Frumpy was in earshot. I don't think it mattered though because Frumpy was definitely *not* happy about being a clown. At one point my aunt flagged him down to make a balloon animal for my baby cousin, so he hastily made one and grumbled something to the effect of "hereyagokid". I think, if he had had to do something for my birthday, he would have been more embarassed than I was (pity I didn't think of that at the time.) I can only assume that practice did not last long.

In article , [email] wrote:

We had Farrells-es in Los Angeles (*shudder*).

Yes it's true. Their specialty was indeed embarassing people on their birthdays. (*shudder*). However, in LA, no restaurant is not Fair Game for the Birthday Patrol. I wound up walking out of a Black Angus near me when my mom forced The Birthday Patrol on me (*shudder*). Moral: Don't go out to dinner on your birthday with family members in LA. (*shudder*).

Shuddering,
--.\\<-H--